Request for info on ferrying acft from US
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Request for info on ferrying acft from US
(this is a re-write of a previous post that didn’t seem to get submitted properly)
Hello one and all,
I would like to purchase an American aircraft, a light twin fixed wing, and ferry it back to Australia.
I contacted a company in Bankstown that specializes in ferrying aircraft (no prizes for guessing which) and enquired about doing some flight training there as well as paying for their advice so that I could ferry my own aircraft from the US.
Their response was: “Why would we want to give you our secrets? We need to make a buck too!” I replied with: “So I don’t end up in the drink!”
Even though their comment was said with some jocularity, I couldn’t help but detect a modicum of seriousness. Whilst I don’t begrudge their wish to ‘make a buck’, I think a bit of friendly advice from one aviator to another wouldn’t have gone astray.
Anyway, like a James Bond martini, I was shaken but not stirred… and so I decided to turn to my fellow aviators in the hope that some of you may have undertaken this same venture and would be more willing to offer advice.
I am not unfamiliar with long over water legs, I fly a single-engined EMS chopper in the Torres Strait and some of the over water legs are greater than an hour long and often dodging tropical storms, but I also know that there are many lessons to be learnt in aviation and so I seek your help/advice/tips/encouragement/gotchas/comments/etc.
I have found the ‘IFIM’ website by FAA and the ‘roundtheworlders’ website (dedicated to all those that have circumnavigated the globe in singles and multis) and I also have the CASA CAAP on importing aircraft. They’ve got great info… but I’m looking for more.
Any help is appreciated.
Cheers and safe flying,
Conway
www.ipas.com.au
Hello one and all,
I would like to purchase an American aircraft, a light twin fixed wing, and ferry it back to Australia.
I contacted a company in Bankstown that specializes in ferrying aircraft (no prizes for guessing which) and enquired about doing some flight training there as well as paying for their advice so that I could ferry my own aircraft from the US.
Their response was: “Why would we want to give you our secrets? We need to make a buck too!” I replied with: “So I don’t end up in the drink!”
Even though their comment was said with some jocularity, I couldn’t help but detect a modicum of seriousness. Whilst I don’t begrudge their wish to ‘make a buck’, I think a bit of friendly advice from one aviator to another wouldn’t have gone astray.
Anyway, like a James Bond martini, I was shaken but not stirred… and so I decided to turn to my fellow aviators in the hope that some of you may have undertaken this same venture and would be more willing to offer advice.
I am not unfamiliar with long over water legs, I fly a single-engined EMS chopper in the Torres Strait and some of the over water legs are greater than an hour long and often dodging tropical storms, but I also know that there are many lessons to be learnt in aviation and so I seek your help/advice/tips/encouragement/gotchas/comments/etc.
I have found the ‘IFIM’ website by FAA and the ‘roundtheworlders’ website (dedicated to all those that have circumnavigated the globe in singles and multis) and I also have the CASA CAAP on importing aircraft. They’ve got great info… but I’m looking for more.
Any help is appreciated.
Cheers and safe flying,
Conway
www.ipas.com.au
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Ferrying aircraft back from US
Conway, I'm in the same boat - or technically, aircraft. I have just purchased an IFR ice protected Aztec, in the US. I intend to operate it over there for a while - a year, maybe, to get ME and IFR rated, as well as getting some solid IFR practice - then fly it back myself, in this case, to NZ. I'm a 1500 hour VFR PPL, with quite a bit of mountain flying experience, but mountain flying ain't much use over the big blue, methinks. I'm afraid I can't help - yet - with much useful info on ferrying, although I wonder if you/we might get further asking Americans, rather than Aussies & kiwis. More people to ask, for a start. Might be some economies of scale available, depending on the aircraft you end up getting - ferry tanks, HF radios, emergency gear and so on. And contacts to share, etc. If you feel like it, email me - [email protected] - and we can swap notes. I'm going over to the US in a couple of weeks, and intend to start shaking some trees. I know some guys who've done it, who are all based in the USA. Prruners - all info welcome. Would be keen to find a sensible grown-up to come along on my flight...I imagine an over-grossed Aztec would still fly with two people? Hell, Conway, maybe we could study hard and train properly, plan it thoroughly, and co-pilot for each other? It's the toilet facilities that worry me the most - well, not really - maybe it's the small matter of SAR in the event of a survivable ditching. Oh, and a GPS-independent method of navigation. Not wildly confident that my pilotage would get me from California to Hawaii with quite the same precision that the old boys used to do it with, with sextants, ded reckoning and protractors. Clearly, an undertaking like this would require some serious planning and training, and would be unlikely to be cheaper than paying someone else to do it for you - still, it's not just the money, is it? Adventure and all that...
Incidentally, I've imported several aircraft from the US, and have hitherto found that removing the wings and putting them in containers eliminates a lot of dramas - and a container only costs US$2200 or so, maybe $3K for a big one...
Incidentally, I've imported several aircraft from the US, and have hitherto found that removing the wings and putting them in containers eliminates a lot of dramas - and a container only costs US$2200 or so, maybe $3K for a big one...
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Sounds good
G'day Lost Piano Player,
Sounds good. I have sent you an email with some info.
I look forward to cooperating.
Conway
PS. I'm impressed you called it ded reckoning. Shows you know what you're talking about.
Sounds good. I have sent you an email with some info.
I look forward to cooperating.
Conway
PS. I'm impressed you called it ded reckoning. Shows you know what you're talking about.
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“So I don’t end up in the drink!”
Talk to your insurer - there used to be a significant extra premium for non experienced ferry pilots. You may find their premium for you to ferry an aircraft across the pond makes it an economic proposition to re-consider your friends at Bankstown! Also check out HF (and any other nav equipment you may need) hire and temporary installation costs as they used to charge an arm and a leg!
Southern Cross Aviation in California was Aussie owned, very reasonable and very experienced at aircraft ferry to Australia.
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There was an article in Australian Flying in the last couple of years - cant remember exactly when. It was a personal account of a couple of guys doing their own ferry. I remember it covering a few clues about some of the problems etc.
Might be some help if you can track it down.
Might be some help if you can track it down.
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While we're on the subject of ferrying - does anyone know how much is involved in removing the wings from a cessna single and packing in a container?
I was looking at a low houred 182 but wouldn't like to see it flying the pacific.
I was looking at a low houred 182 but wouldn't like to see it flying the pacific.
and a container only costs US$2200 or so, maybe $3K for a big one...
Expect something like below
Dissassembly
Packing
Cartage
Export Entry (Customs)
Origin Charges (USA) e.g. ports terminal handling, forklift, wharfage
Insurance (Maritime)
Freight
CABAF
Documents - Carrier Bill of Lading
Documents - House Bill of Lading
Maritime Security
Destination Charges (AUS) e.g. terminal handling charges, forklift, wharfage
Delivery Order
Customs Clearance
MAF/Quartantine/AQIS
Cartage
Unpack
Reassembly
Deal with a professional logistics company so there are no hidden surprises with charges.
PM me if you need any more info re ocean freighting of aircraft
A few years back I saw an article written by a fellow who was moving to aus for a few years from the US and wanted to bring his Bonanza out here. He costed both the ferry, and the shipping and found them both around the same price. He chose the shipping option, as he decided that that was a good opportunity to get a really good inspection done on the airframe while it was disassembled.
Personally, I'd do the ferry thing. A once in a lifetime trip.
Bevan..
Personally, I'd do the ferry thing. A once in a lifetime trip.
Bevan..
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Put it in a box
Just a suggestion, why dont you just disassemble the thing, ship it in a container to Cairns, assemble it again and fly it from there.
Shipping it will be much cheaper, insurance wise, fuel and clearances.
Less headache too.... believe me.
Just my two cents worth.
D6
Shipping it will be much cheaper, insurance wise, fuel and clearances.
Less headache too.... believe me.
Just my two cents worth.
D6
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If I was to Ferry an aircraft anywhere in the world then I'd be talking to Jim Hazelton.He'd arguably have more experience than anyone else on the planet in these sort of expeditions (cause thats what they are).
You can probably track him down through someone at Kempsy airport or maybe just in their phonebook.
GOOD LUCK!.
Thumbs.
You can probably track him down through someone at Kempsy airport or maybe just in their phonebook.
GOOD LUCK!.
Thumbs.
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This might be of interest.
Andrew Meidecke is a former Touring Car racer (Nice Guy too) and now a successful MB dealer and other things no doubt in Port Macquarie.
Anyhow, he has a great story and is well logged and on the site below for anyone wanting to have a read. Great photo's as well.
http://www.ferry.miedecke.com.au/gallery.htm
Cheers
J
Andrew Meidecke is a former Touring Car racer (Nice Guy too) and now a successful MB dealer and other things no doubt in Port Macquarie.
Anyhow, he has a great story and is well logged and on the site below for anyone wanting to have a read. Great photo's as well.
http://www.ferry.miedecke.com.au/gallery.htm
Cheers
J
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Gday,
Air ace is right re the insurance bit, check it out.
My 2 cents,
If it will fit in a container, thats where it belongs.
Have a look at how many went in the drink last year with experience ferry crew doin the job
CHeers,
Con
Air ace is right re the insurance bit, check it out.
My 2 cents,
If it will fit in a container, thats where it belongs.
Have a look at how many went in the drink last year with experience ferry crew doin the job
CHeers,
Con
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International Ferry is not rocket science, hire Jim Hazelton for the day, take your flight plan material with you, i'm sure that will give you pretty much all the knowledge you'll need.
1) ring Jeppesen in Canberra and buy a trip kit ( will give you all the IFR chart etc etc for the route )
2) contact an overflight permit company, they will organisae your airways clearances/visa's and hotels, taxi's etc etc.
3) Contact a flying school in the US, do a check ride or two with them.
4) down load copies of "General Declarations" and learn how to fill out a ICAO flight plan.
5) Hire/buy all the safety/oxygen equipment you need, you do not have to fly thousands of mile over the ocean, if its your aircraft, go the scenic route, its safer ( who really wants to sit in an aircraft for 20 hours, one patch of blue water looks pretty much the same as the next ( Helicopter Underwater Escape training {HUET} is a great investment ).
6) revise how to calculate PNR/ETP, have heaps of enroute alternate info.
You'll love it.
1) ring Jeppesen in Canberra and buy a trip kit ( will give you all the IFR chart etc etc for the route )
2) contact an overflight permit company, they will organisae your airways clearances/visa's and hotels, taxi's etc etc.
3) Contact a flying school in the US, do a check ride or two with them.
4) down load copies of "General Declarations" and learn how to fill out a ICAO flight plan.
5) Hire/buy all the safety/oxygen equipment you need, you do not have to fly thousands of mile over the ocean, if its your aircraft, go the scenic route, its safer ( who really wants to sit in an aircraft for 20 hours, one patch of blue water looks pretty much the same as the next ( Helicopter Underwater Escape training {HUET} is a great investment ).
6) revise how to calculate PNR/ETP, have heaps of enroute alternate info.
You'll love it.
Last edited by Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower; 19th Jan 2007 at 04:01.
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Jimmy Hazelton!! 
Now there's a blast from the past, one of the industries true pioneers and nature's gentleman!
It's great to know Jim is still with us - I won't hazard a guess at his age!!
Jim would have forgotten more about long distance ferry flights than most pilots learn in a life time!!
A word of caution about long distance ferry, particularly trans Pacific:
It's not life's great adventure, undertaken wearing rose coloured glasses. It's a deadly serious and exhausting game for professionals who meticulously plan, are continually re-assessing the odds and who have a tried and proven plan B (and possibly plan C) when plan A goes pear shape and gravity takes command.
Now there's a blast from the past, one of the industries true pioneers and nature's gentleman! It's great to know Jim is still with us - I won't hazard a guess at his age!!
Jim would have forgotten more about long distance ferry flights than most pilots learn in a life time!!
A word of caution about long distance ferry, particularly trans Pacific:
It's not life's great adventure, undertaken wearing rose coloured glasses. It's a deadly serious and exhausting game for professionals who meticulously plan, are continually re-assessing the odds and who have a tried and proven plan B (and possibly plan C) when plan A goes pear shape and gravity takes command.
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Louise Sacchi a pro ferry pilot who did a lot of international (read trans Atlantic and Pacific) ferrying of Barons, Bonanzas and other Beech products has a book "Ocean Flying" ISBN 0-8306-9436-6 which you may find a good primer for any preparation.
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Get a pro to do it please, its a lot of water and a lot of other things that the blokes that do this all the time know about !!! Enjoy your plane when it gets here
steve death is some one who comes to mind based in Albury
steve death is some one who comes to mind based in Albury