TB10/20 - What are they like, and where can I find one??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Somewhere near here
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TB10/20 - What are they like, and where can I find one??
So...anyone flown a TB10 or TB20? Curious to know what they're like to fly, how they perform and if there are any around NSW or VIC for hire...
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Dark Side
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
Think there is a couple at Bankstown? The flight school next to Schofields use to have a TB10.
Never flown one so unable to comment on that side of it.
The Original Jetpipe
Think there is a couple at Bankstown? The flight school next to Schofields use to have a TB10.
Never flown one so unable to comment on that side of it.
The Original Jetpipe
TB10, VH-JTU is at RVAC Moorabbin. Flies very nicely, but of course has the usual Gallic flair, like:-
1. Stylish gull wing doors - the seals leak and the POH pocket is directly under one, so POH can get wet. In addition if they are not securely locked you can lose them.
2. The lovely little strip type gauges which are difficult to read sometimes. JTU's oil pressure gauge needs the occasional tap to get it to indicate (probably fixed by now).
3. Circuit breakers that double as switches.
But it has leather seats
1. Stylish gull wing doors - the seals leak and the POH pocket is directly under one, so POH can get wet. In addition if they are not securely locked you can lose them.
2. The lovely little strip type gauges which are difficult to read sometimes. JTU's oil pressure gauge needs the occasional tap to get it to indicate (probably fixed by now).
3. Circuit breakers that double as switches.
But it has leather seats
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oil pressure gauge needs the occasional tap to get it to indicate (probably fixed by now).
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Wherever I Lay my Hat...
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flew one of the TB10 years ago back home. The only lasting impression other than those already mentioned -pull the power off and it turns into a brick. IMO an un-lovely aircraft.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TB-10
Not a nice aeroplane. Did a few hours both operationally and instructing in them.
Seem to recall that they are heavy in the ailerons and overly light in the elevator, making them an unharmonised set of controls. Easy to over rotate and balloon on landing until you get the hang of it.
Seem to recall that it didn't perform as the book said either.
Give me a PA-28-181 any day over the TB10. Over rated, funny looking and operationally useless.
Bombay
Seem to recall that they are heavy in the ailerons and overly light in the elevator, making them an unharmonised set of controls. Easy to over rotate and balloon on landing until you get the hang of it.
Seem to recall that it didn't perform as the book said either.
Give me a PA-28-181 any day over the TB10. Over rated, funny looking and operationally useless.
Bombay
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wherever the hotel drink ticket is valid
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did a few hours in a TB10 through Basair at Bankstown back in my PPL days. Quite strange to get into after a long time in Cessnas and Pipers. Lots of stuff I didn't like but the vision is a bit of an improvement. I've been told that the TB20 is a bit of a step up???
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sounds as though, from the majority of posts, that the TB10 is fairly disliked. This got me thinking.. They seemed to have worked well for FTA for training overseas and Aussie cadets who have continued with a Grob/Tobago fleet since their beginning.
Are they cheap and therefore a wise business choice for a large training organisation such as FTA?
Just going by some of the responses here, if they're such a POS aircraft, why would a company that trains many airline cadets bother sticking with them?
Interesting discussion nonetheless.
Are they cheap and therefore a wise business choice for a large training organisation such as FTA?
Just going by some of the responses here, if they're such a POS aircraft, why would a company that trains many airline cadets bother sticking with them?
Interesting discussion nonetheless.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 57
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flew TB20s a couple of times and didn't bother after that.
Agree with Bombay about the lack on control harmony. Very very heavy to control in roll. Many comments about the strip gauges .... agree with those too. Crap. Weird-o-rama push button circuit breakers. Yecch.
I liked kiwiblue's point about the 'brick' - like behaviour with the power off. We've all heard about ham-fisted pilots stalling and spinning in when they cock up turning onto finals. With the gear and flaps down this aircraft BITES at the stall. OK OK others do too, but not nearly as nastily as the TB20. Leaves very little room for error.
Let's face it, 145KIAS or so in a TB20 compared to 130+ KIAS in a PA-28-236 (for example) which has much more benign handling & no retractable hassles, only amounts to a few minutes over a typical GA trip.
Agree with Bombay about the lack on control harmony. Very very heavy to control in roll. Many comments about the strip gauges .... agree with those too. Crap. Weird-o-rama push button circuit breakers. Yecch.
I liked kiwiblue's point about the 'brick' - like behaviour with the power off. We've all heard about ham-fisted pilots stalling and spinning in when they cock up turning onto finals. With the gear and flaps down this aircraft BITES at the stall. OK OK others do too, but not nearly as nastily as the TB20. Leaves very little room for error.
Let's face it, 145KIAS or so in a TB20 compared to 130+ KIAS in a PA-28-236 (for example) which has much more benign handling & no retractable hassles, only amounts to a few minutes over a typical GA trip.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney & Asia
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AFTS
Hi there, AFTS has closed down completely. I don't know where their TB10s are now.
I use to fly both the TB10 and TB20s. Nice looking but prefer the TB20s.
Some people don't like it but I reckon it all depends on your personality.
Personally, good for training.
D6
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Age: 51
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Basair at Bankstown has a couple of TB10s. Personally I didn't like them - one obvious problem is lack of headroom - I was constantly scraping my head and I'm not unusually tall at 6 foot. The thing just felt like a big clumsy tank.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: expat@large
Age: 55
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I loved the TB20. Especially after all the 20 yr old 50's designed Piper/Cessna stuff.
We had one at MB in 94 and although it was second-hand (D'Oh) it was great I thought, I loved the seating position and the different switches. It made anything that came before feel like a HD Holden. I admit it evoked a real love / hate relationship with some of our students / clients, but so did getting out of the VK and and into a Pug 504. It was a bit faster than most things with the same donk and the "hard -to-land" mis-nomer was because it had a higher wing-loading than most of the ancient **** we'd all be flying before. And I might add, if you ever got into an Aerostar of Metro II, is was good famil. for those types in that sense.
So yeah, not foolproof, but fun, I thought. TB20 anyway, never did the sisters.
PS: Whizwheel old cock, that was VH-BFU
We had one at MB in 94 and although it was second-hand (D'Oh) it was great I thought, I loved the seating position and the different switches. It made anything that came before feel like a HD Holden. I admit it evoked a real love / hate relationship with some of our students / clients, but so did getting out of the VK and and into a Pug 504. It was a bit faster than most things with the same donk and the "hard -to-land" mis-nomer was because it had a higher wing-loading than most of the ancient **** we'd all be flying before. And I might add, if you ever got into an Aerostar of Metro II, is was good famil. for those types in that sense.
So yeah, not foolproof, but fun, I thought. TB20 anyway, never did the sisters.
PS: Whizwheel old cock, that was VH-BFU
Last edited by Crossbleed; 19th Sep 2006 at 19:33.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere around 27degrees
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The TB20
Agree with Bombay about the lack on control harmony. Very very heavy to control in roll. Many comments about the strip gauges .... agree with those too. Crap. Weird-o-rama push button circuit breakers. Yecch.
I liked kiwiblue's point about the 'brick' - like behaviour with the power off. We've all heard about ham-fisted pilots stalling and spinning in when they cock up turning onto finals. With the gear and flaps down this aircraft BITES at the stall. OK OK others do too, but not nearly as nastily as the TB20. Leaves very little room for error.
Let's face it, 145KIAS or so in a TB20 compared to 130+ KIAS in a PA-28-236 (for example) which has much more benign handling & no retractable hassles, only amounts to a few minutes over a typical GA trip.
I liked kiwiblue's point about the 'brick' - like behaviour with the power off. We've all heard about ham-fisted pilots stalling and spinning in when they cock up turning onto finals. With the gear and flaps down this aircraft BITES at the stall. OK OK others do too, but not nearly as nastily as the TB20. Leaves very little room for error.
Let's face it, 145KIAS or so in a TB20 compared to 130+ KIAS in a PA-28-236 (for example) which has much more benign handling & no retractable hassles, only amounts to a few minutes over a typical GA trip.
Push button switches - they work fine.
Gauges - Agreed. Hard to read & unreliable. Very, very expensive to replace.
Flying brick?? - Hasn't anyone ever flown a PA32/PA32R, Mooney, Metro or anything else with a higher wing loading???
Stalling!! - As with any aircraft, only to be done very close to, or very far from the ground!!!
145kts?? - Don't know about that........the two that I travelled in regularly managed a 155ktas........can't remember what it indicated.
Headroom - Grossly inadequate!! At 5'10" I had to lay the seat back like some punk in his pimped Commodore ridin down Lygon.
Landings - Not a problem at all as I recall as the aircraft had a trailing-link undercarriage configuration. They handled my punishment and regular trips to a grass strip well.
In summary, an OK, if different aircraft that got along well, perhaps a bit thirsty, but could carry adequate fuel for a 3/4 filled cabin. Its higher wing loading make it less suited to early training, better suited to IFR & CPL related
training and touring, rather than circuits!
Not my first choice due to unashamed Beechcraft bias, that'll be a Bonanza for a long time!!
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've flown the TB10 in vfr and ifr as an instructor. Cosmetically they were laid out well, nice dash layout and fairly comfortable to fly.
Generally ok IFR apart from some leaks from the door seals. One particular a/c resulted in me being drenched after a couple of ours in the soup.
You have to be careful with the flaps as you can overspeed them very easily, and flapless landings will generally result in a zero degree nose attitude or slightly higher, and this can obscure the threshhold depending on your size and seat position. This can be challenging at night.
Also careful of the doors when parked. If they're open and a wind gust comes along (either naturally or from starting a/c in front), it can cause damage.
Generally ok IFR apart from some leaks from the door seals. One particular a/c resulted in me being drenched after a couple of ours in the soup.
You have to be careful with the flaps as you can overspeed them very easily, and flapless landings will generally result in a zero degree nose attitude or slightly higher, and this can obscure the threshhold depending on your size and seat position. This can be challenging at night.
Also careful of the doors when parked. If they're open and a wind gust comes along (either naturally or from starting a/c in front), it can cause damage.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Down a dark hole
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
