Definition of Aussie X-Country
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Definition of Aussie X-Country
howdy,
i am trying to meet the aeronautical experience requirements for the issuance of the aussie atpl. however, i can not find what the definition for x-c is. i have the CARs and have looked in definitions under Pt 1, but still no mention of a distance from the departure point. the defintion mentions how a pilot uses nav aids, topography and/or geometry to determine the aircrafts position and course whilst flying along a route. am i to understand that if i depart a field with a vortac and fly outbound on an airway for 10 nm, note my position and then return, then i have completed a x-c flight and can now count this towards the 200 hrs required ? what am i missing ? any help would be appreciated. i have searched and only found info on nz definitons.
cheers
i am trying to meet the aeronautical experience requirements for the issuance of the aussie atpl. however, i can not find what the definition for x-c is. i have the CARs and have looked in definitions under Pt 1, but still no mention of a distance from the departure point. the defintion mentions how a pilot uses nav aids, topography and/or geometry to determine the aircrafts position and course whilst flying along a route. am i to understand that if i depart a field with a vortac and fly outbound on an airway for 10 nm, note my position and then return, then i have completed a x-c flight and can now count this towards the 200 hrs required ? what am i missing ? any help would be appreciated. i have searched and only found info on nz definitons.
cheers
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you're not missing anything, marpoo. the example you give would count as cross country.
when i showed CASA my logbook for ATPL i asked how they would verify the cross country time. the guy just laughed. they take a copy of some of your logbook to keep.
my advice is to be consistent in your calculations. if you've got 1500 hours then the 200 hour cross country requirement shouldn't present any problems, so you could only count what is unambiguously cross country without much penalty.
when i showed CASA my logbook for ATPL i asked how they would verify the cross country time. the guy just laughed. they take a copy of some of your logbook to keep.
my advice is to be consistent in your calculations. if you've got 1500 hours then the 200 hour cross country requirement shouldn't present any problems, so you could only count what is unambiguously cross country without much penalty.
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Had the same question of an old instructor of mine. He said it depended on how you logged it and that technically if you have a map on your knee it becomes x/c.
eg a flight logged as Essendon scenic would be hard to justify as x/c
Essendon, MCG, Westgate Bridge Essendon however (say same route) would count as x/c. (or even EM-ML-EN for arguments sake could be seen as x/c)
eg a flight logged as Essendon scenic would be hard to justify as x/c
Essendon, MCG, Westgate Bridge Essendon however (say same route) would count as x/c. (or even EM-ML-EN for arguments sake could be seen as x/c)
Check Attitude
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marpoo
Definitions and obscure rules, exemptions from obscure rules etc are hidden and scattered throughout CASA documentation.
Answers can be found in CAR's, CAO's, CAAP's, AIP etc.
e.g. "Logging of Flight Time" is defined in CAO 40.1 (Flight Crew Licences), and virtually nowhere else in CASA's CAR's, CAO's etc.
The only way to quickly and effectively search is to use the CASA CD ROM and invoke the search function.
You can also do it manually, but need to read almost every document.
The following definition appears in CAO 40.2.1, p3.
cross-country means flight for the purpose of either visual or radio navigation.
This may constitute either a single leg to a destination other than the point of departure
or a number of sectors terminating at either the point of departure or another destination
Essentially this means a flight from A to B, or A to B to A, or A to B to C to D, etc.
For the purposes of meeting the requirements of a particular rating, the definition is further expanded to specify, in the case of Night VFR,
A flight of at least 3 hours duration or at least 100nm, other specifications used to define a minimum of 50nm from the point of departure.
Technically, a flight from Bankstown to Hoxton Park constitutes a cross-country flight.
In recognition of that, a restricted PPL (pre GFPT) was permitted to proceed to a secondary training aerodrome
associated with pilot's primary training aerodrome, despite not having completed the requirements for cross-country navigation.
hope this helps in unravelling the many mysteries still awaiting you in our wonderful, 18 years in review, rules.
Mainframe
Definitions and obscure rules, exemptions from obscure rules etc are hidden and scattered throughout CASA documentation.
Answers can be found in CAR's, CAO's, CAAP's, AIP etc.
e.g. "Logging of Flight Time" is defined in CAO 40.1 (Flight Crew Licences), and virtually nowhere else in CASA's CAR's, CAO's etc.
The only way to quickly and effectively search is to use the CASA CD ROM and invoke the search function.
You can also do it manually, but need to read almost every document.
The following definition appears in CAO 40.2.1, p3.
cross-country means flight for the purpose of either visual or radio navigation.
This may constitute either a single leg to a destination other than the point of departure
or a number of sectors terminating at either the point of departure or another destination
Essentially this means a flight from A to B, or A to B to A, or A to B to C to D, etc.
For the purposes of meeting the requirements of a particular rating, the definition is further expanded to specify, in the case of Night VFR,
A flight of at least 3 hours duration or at least 100nm, other specifications used to define a minimum of 50nm from the point of departure.
Technically, a flight from Bankstown to Hoxton Park constitutes a cross-country flight.
In recognition of that, a restricted PPL (pre GFPT) was permitted to proceed to a secondary training aerodrome
associated with pilot's primary training aerodrome, despite not having completed the requirements for cross-country navigation.
hope this helps in unravelling the many mysteries still awaiting you in our wonderful, 18 years in review, rules.
Mainframe
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CAR 5.117
Cross-country Flight Time
"...the cross-country flight time must include a flight of at least 300 miles that includes:
(a) at least 1 full stop landing at; and
(b) at least 1 take-off from;
each of 2 or more aerodromes that are not the aerodrome from which
the flight commenced.
(2) For the purposes of this regulation, a landing is a full stop landing if,
after landing, the aeroplane’s speed is reduced to taxi speed before
take-off begins."
"...the cross-country flight time must include a flight of at least 300 miles that includes:
(a) at least 1 full stop landing at; and
(b) at least 1 take-off from;
each of 2 or more aerodromes that are not the aerodrome from which
the flight commenced.
(2) For the purposes of this regulation, a landing is a full stop landing if,
after landing, the aeroplane’s speed is reduced to taxi speed before
take-off begins."
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Originally Posted by pinoypiloto
Cross-country Flight Time
"...the cross-country flight time must include a flight of at least 300 miles that includes:
(a) at least 1 full stop landing at; and
(b) at least 1 take-off from;
each of 2 or more aerodromes that are not the aerodrome from which
the flight commenced.
(a) at least 1 full stop landing at; and
(b) at least 1 take-off from;
each of 2 or more aerodromes that are not the aerodrome from which
the flight commenced.
(2) For the purposes of this regulation, a landing is a full stop landing if,
after landing, the aeroplane’s speed is reduced to taxi speed before
after landing, the aeroplane’s speed is reduced to taxi speed before
take-off begins."
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Originally Posted by get_over_it
that quote means that out of all your cross-country time, only one flight must be atleast 300 miles. yeah?
Check Attitude
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CAO 40.2.1 gives the DEFINITION
cross-country: means flight for the purpose of either visual or radio navigation.
This may constitute either a single leg to a destination other than the point of departure
or a number of sectors terminating at either the point of departure or another destination
and:
For the purposes of meeting the requirements of a particular rating, the definition is further expanded to specify, in the case of Night VFR,
A flight of at least 3 hours duration or at least 100nm, other specifications used to define a minimum of 50nm from the point of departure.
This bit doesn't DEFINE cross- country, it just specifies HOW MUCH for a Night VFR Nav.
Avid has got it sussed out correctly, but the flight needs at least one sector,
(reporting point or landing point) implying a need to NAVIGATE,
away from the departure aerodrome. hence Bankstown to Hoxton Park, or Bankstown - Camden, etc, constitutes "Cross-Country".
Now refer to "LOGGING OF FLIGHT TIME" in CAO 40.1.
You need to log the the sectors of the "Flight", they may be turning points or landing points.
And yes, CASA will need to photocopy the first and last page of each logbook submitted.
As you need a minimum of 1,500 hrs for an ATPL, including 100 hrs night and 75 hours instrument,
you will normally have satisfied all cross country requirements unless you spent your 1,500 hours in the circuit, hardly likely, even for an instructor.
Your big stumbling block, as with most ATPL aspirants, will be logging the required 100 hours night,
harder to get normally than the 75 hours instrument time.
Best of luck, another milestone.
MF
cross-country: means flight for the purpose of either visual or radio navigation.
This may constitute either a single leg to a destination other than the point of departure
or a number of sectors terminating at either the point of departure or another destination
and:
For the purposes of meeting the requirements of a particular rating, the definition is further expanded to specify, in the case of Night VFR,
A flight of at least 3 hours duration or at least 100nm, other specifications used to define a minimum of 50nm from the point of departure.
This bit doesn't DEFINE cross- country, it just specifies HOW MUCH for a Night VFR Nav.
Avid has got it sussed out correctly, but the flight needs at least one sector,
(reporting point or landing point) implying a need to NAVIGATE,
away from the departure aerodrome. hence Bankstown to Hoxton Park, or Bankstown - Camden, etc, constitutes "Cross-Country".
Now refer to "LOGGING OF FLIGHT TIME" in CAO 40.1.
You need to log the the sectors of the "Flight", they may be turning points or landing points.
And yes, CASA will need to photocopy the first and last page of each logbook submitted.
As you need a minimum of 1,500 hrs for an ATPL, including 100 hrs night and 75 hours instrument,
you will normally have satisfied all cross country requirements unless you spent your 1,500 hours in the circuit, hardly likely, even for an instructor.
Your big stumbling block, as with most ATPL aspirants, will be logging the required 100 hours night,
harder to get normally than the 75 hours instrument time.
Best of luck, another milestone.
MF
