Fortress Moorabbin
When you live....
Thread Starter
Fortress Moorabbin
To the Moorabbin aiport managers,
Love the new security - it looks such great value for money. However I have some points you may wish to consider:
- in locking down the airport tighter than Fort Knox, some kind of advance notice to visiting pilots may be worthwhile. This is what NOTAMs/AIP Sup are for. All it needs to say is "Pilots of visiting aircraft can expect to be trapped airside for up to 30 minutes while our system attempts to let you out."
- when you decide that the system will involve access cards for locals and some fandangled swipe-your-creditcard system for others, perhaps you could wait until said fandangled swipe-your-creditcard method is in service before locking down the airport aka fort knox. (As an aside - how does this proposed system deal with the data protection act? Will I have to give authorisation to you prior to each use so you can check that I haven't stolen Charles Kingford-Smiths Visa card?).
- in the event you have chosen not to do this and need me to ring a Sydney call centre to have some hope of getting out, perhaps you could give them a map of the airport that shows the positions of all of the gates. Also explain what terms such as North and Runway and taxiway mean. Alternatively, giving the gates names more meaningful than "Hangers 5" would assist your call centre staff in working out where I am. Or.. wait.... I've got it - put a SIGN ON THE GATE which identifies it so I can tell your call centre staff where I am!!!!!!
- when you give the Sydney call centre control to open individual gates - perhaps you could give them access to the CCTV footage at each gate. That way they might be able to a) see which gate I am at and b) be certain THAT I'M REALLY AIRSIDE AND WANT TO GET LANDSIDE.
- Also, perhaps the call centre people could be trained in common sense. Having finally worked that they couldn't work out which gate I was at, they called a 'local' working for the company who called me who said he would ring them and I should just tug on the gate for 2 minutes. Ten minutes later I ring the call centre back to be told that the local's phone had dropped out but they had it narrowed down to two - well, I suggest, could you try them then? Oh, ok is the reply and hooray! Thirty minutes after the start of this, I escape from Alcatraz.
- Finally, the system probably should have some way of checking that said gate has closed again! I propped it open for a minute to make sure my transport was where it should have been. Explained this to the call centre who were, frankly, uninterested and hung up before I could confirm that the gate was closed.
Apart from that, it's terrific.
UTR.
Love the new security - it looks such great value for money. However I have some points you may wish to consider:
- in locking down the airport tighter than Fort Knox, some kind of advance notice to visiting pilots may be worthwhile. This is what NOTAMs/AIP Sup are for. All it needs to say is "Pilots of visiting aircraft can expect to be trapped airside for up to 30 minutes while our system attempts to let you out."
- when you decide that the system will involve access cards for locals and some fandangled swipe-your-creditcard system for others, perhaps you could wait until said fandangled swipe-your-creditcard method is in service before locking down the airport aka fort knox. (As an aside - how does this proposed system deal with the data protection act? Will I have to give authorisation to you prior to each use so you can check that I haven't stolen Charles Kingford-Smiths Visa card?).
- in the event you have chosen not to do this and need me to ring a Sydney call centre to have some hope of getting out, perhaps you could give them a map of the airport that shows the positions of all of the gates. Also explain what terms such as North and Runway and taxiway mean. Alternatively, giving the gates names more meaningful than "Hangers 5" would assist your call centre staff in working out where I am. Or.. wait.... I've got it - put a SIGN ON THE GATE which identifies it so I can tell your call centre staff where I am!!!!!!
- when you give the Sydney call centre control to open individual gates - perhaps you could give them access to the CCTV footage at each gate. That way they might be able to a) see which gate I am at and b) be certain THAT I'M REALLY AIRSIDE AND WANT TO GET LANDSIDE.
- Also, perhaps the call centre people could be trained in common sense. Having finally worked that they couldn't work out which gate I was at, they called a 'local' working for the company who called me who said he would ring them and I should just tug on the gate for 2 minutes. Ten minutes later I ring the call centre back to be told that the local's phone had dropped out but they had it narrowed down to two - well, I suggest, could you try them then? Oh, ok is the reply and hooray! Thirty minutes after the start of this, I escape from Alcatraz.
- Finally, the system probably should have some way of checking that said gate has closed again! I propped it open for a minute to make sure my transport was where it should have been. Explained this to the call centre who were, frankly, uninterested and hung up before I could confirm that the gate was closed.
Apart from that, it's terrific.
UTR.
When you live....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ****su_Tonka
Cant help thinking that sales of wirecutters are set to soar with this nonsense
For the uninitiated, perhaps gate numbers and a few "You are here" maps would be useful as well as a courtesy phone or two.
An even better solution would be a few turnstile type gates (like at Mildura) as well.
Another alternative during daylight hours, someone at RVAC (near the tower) might take pity on you and let you out (but definitely not back in!) through their own gate.
I'm personally planning to avoid the security controlled airports outside of business hours unless I can get the "secret code" or whatever in advance. After three hours or so I can get very bloody minded if a barrier is put between me and the loo.
An even better solution would be a few turnstile type gates (like at Mildura) as well.
Another alternative during daylight hours, someone at RVAC (near the tower) might take pity on you and let you out (but definitely not back in!) through their own gate.
I'm personally planning to avoid the security controlled airports outside of business hours unless I can get the "secret code" or whatever in advance. After three hours or so I can get very bloody minded if a barrier is put between me and the loo.
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Underneath the Radar
Fair comment regarding signage and this is being fixed as I type this. My apologies. Comments about the call centre are being passed on and will be actioned. They do (or should) have direct CCTV coverage. The call centre is only a temporary measure until we get the new visitor access system in place- unfortunately this is delayed by factors beyond our control and we have an obligation to put access control measures in place under the Aviation Transport Security Act.
And incidentally the visitor access system takes any magnetic stripe card with a single user name. We even tried it on a local library card. The purpose is purely to provide the system with a unique number (three digits only) and no information is taken from the card at all. All this will be explained when the system is installed.
And I usually find that using a telephone to complain works wonders- we’re all human and make mistakes like anyone else. Our number is 9587 3666. Give it a try sometime.
Regards
Phil McConnell
Moorabbin Airport
Fair comment regarding signage and this is being fixed as I type this. My apologies. Comments about the call centre are being passed on and will be actioned. They do (or should) have direct CCTV coverage. The call centre is only a temporary measure until we get the new visitor access system in place- unfortunately this is delayed by factors beyond our control and we have an obligation to put access control measures in place under the Aviation Transport Security Act.
And incidentally the visitor access system takes any magnetic stripe card with a single user name. We even tried it on a local library card. The purpose is purely to provide the system with a unique number (three digits only) and no information is taken from the card at all. All this will be explained when the system is installed.
And I usually find that using a telephone to complain works wonders- we’re all human and make mistakes like anyone else. Our number is 9587 3666. Give it a try sometime.
Regards
Phil McConnell
Moorabbin Airport
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Hey Underneath the radar, it could be worse. I remember being locked airside at Jackson, PNG for nearly four hours. when I tried to get back to the aircraft three days later, I had a CAA rep with me. he had cards of all types dangling from his shirt and the security guard wouldn't let either of us back airside, regardless of who we were or what we wanted there.
lots of words exchanged between CAA rep and security guard and a bit of name calling, then we went 200mtrs up the road and walked through a open hangar gate and did as we pleased.
lots of words exchanged between CAA rep and security guard and a bit of name calling, then we went 200mtrs up the road and walked through a open hangar gate and did as we pleased.
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Dunno about anyone else, but I'm a little worried about the emergency access requirements that this may be affecting...
Not being familiar with Moorrabbin (I can't even spell it) I could be on the wrong tack entirely, but if there's an emergency and parts of the airfield need to be evacuated (fire, serious aircraft crash or whatever) then I can see this security stuff getting int he way... surely some sort of escape mechanism needs to be in place?
Not being familiar with Moorrabbin (I can't even spell it) I could be on the wrong tack entirely, but if there's an emergency and parts of the airfield need to be evacuated (fire, serious aircraft crash or whatever) then I can see this security stuff getting int he way... surely some sort of escape mechanism needs to be in place?
When you live....
Thread Starter
Phil/fulmar,
Thanks for the reply. I'm sure it is teething problems at the moment and yes, I know that you are very approachable but it was the end of a long flight yesterday and I still had places to be. The sign does say only to call your number during working hours too..... (besides, having a rant on pprune is far more satisfying........!)
Glad to see you have some improvements planned but am very curious as to how you plan to control visitor access using swipe cards. Obviously don't give it all away for those who are reading for the wrong reasons, but are you saying that any card will do? I presume then that this method will let anyone out but you'll then have to use the same card to get back in?
How practical is that when, as last night, I dropped off an a/c that more than likely will be picked up by someone else - possibly not even accessing via gates but via a hangar? Next time, it might be my turn to pick up after hours - maybe not for a year or so. Will the same card still work to let me in? How do you know it's still my card?
Anyway, I'll wait for 'all to be revealed' (by Notam/ERSA/Sup rather than your website please!)
UTR
Thanks for the reply. I'm sure it is teething problems at the moment and yes, I know that you are very approachable but it was the end of a long flight yesterday and I still had places to be. The sign does say only to call your number during working hours too..... (besides, having a rant on pprune is far more satisfying........!)
Glad to see you have some improvements planned but am very curious as to how you plan to control visitor access using swipe cards. Obviously don't give it all away for those who are reading for the wrong reasons, but are you saying that any card will do? I presume then that this method will let anyone out but you'll then have to use the same card to get back in?
How practical is that when, as last night, I dropped off an a/c that more than likely will be picked up by someone else - possibly not even accessing via gates but via a hangar? Next time, it might be my turn to pick up after hours - maybe not for a year or so. Will the same card still work to let me in? How do you know it's still my card?
Anyway, I'll wait for 'all to be revealed' (by Notam/ERSA/Sup rather than your website please!)
UTR
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Got stuck there the other day at 0730 ,i called the NSW number only to be told that she couldnt open the gate because the computer was down and she didnt know what to do because it hadnt happend before ,the saftey officer once we tracked him down was very helpfull. Coming back in the afternoon i rang the airport before closing time and they arranged to have someone there to help .Thank you . On saftey issues what happens with power failures . Why dont you make the swipe card system utilise the ASIC card seeing as most of us will have one (seems a bit more secure than my credit card). Essendon Airport is upgrading (spending lots of money anyway ) on double gates ie drive through the first gate it must close before the second gate opens ,not a bad system BUT only one gate on the airport is long enough between the gates to let FIRE TRUCKS in and the gate is hidden around the back of the airport .
Bottums Up
The way this security over-reaction's going, we're gonna have so many cards dangling about our neck's we'll be sueing on OH&S grounds or need a bluddy follow me aeroplane to carry the darn things.
Why, in this day and age of computers, and central serves, can't we have one integrated security system, with each card issued a number and said number programmed to allow access as required, instead of stand alone systems at each damned airport.
As it is, my QF access card won't give me access at GV any more, but my DIA card does!
Why, in this day and age of computers, and central serves, can't we have one integrated security system, with each card issued a number and said number programmed to allow access as required, instead of stand alone systems at each damned airport.
As it is, my QF access card won't give me access at GV any more, but my DIA card does!
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Nowhere near Essendon but...
About two years ago I had my Airport Security ID card programmed for airside access at Auckland International. None of this magnetic swipe card nonsense - little sensors at each gate read the photo on the ID card and let me through.
Much harder to steal & use someone's photo ID card than their magnetic swipe card I thought to myself. Plus laminated photos don't wear off or get damaged like magnetic stripes.
About two years ago I had my Airport Security ID card programmed for airside access at Auckland International. None of this magnetic swipe card nonsense - little sensors at each gate read the photo on the ID card and let me through.
Much harder to steal & use someone's photo ID card than their magnetic swipe card I thought to myself. Plus laminated photos don't wear off or get damaged like magnetic stripes.
Moderator
... likewise, I can recall using my Auckland ID to get airside ... the fine security guard chappie carefully inspected the card, waved me through .. but failed to note that it had expired a month or two earlier .. I was waiting on the replacement.
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UTR - As for being not informed, you are not entirely correct. They have had signs up there since last October / November informing you that in mid January gates would become active. Extension after extension has led to them now becoming active.
For those that want to know how it works with the credit card; the credit card won't actually let you in, but rather let you out, record your details and then let you in again, within 48 hours.
If you need permanent access or for more than the 48 hours, simply call the Management office and get a card issued. This takes about 10 minutes, costs $10 and arrives within only a couple of days.
Not all that hard.
As for power failures, it's all running on a backup system and shouldn't happen.
For those that want to know how it works with the credit card; the credit card won't actually let you in, but rather let you out, record your details and then let you in again, within 48 hours.
If you need permanent access or for more than the 48 hours, simply call the Management office and get a card issued. This takes about 10 minutes, costs $10 and arrives within only a couple of days.
Not all that hard.
As for power failures, it's all running on a backup system and shouldn't happen.
When you live....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by VH-XXX
UTR - As for being not informed, you are not entirely correct. They have had signs up there since last October / November informing you that in mid January gates would become active. Extension after extension has led to them now becoming active.
Back to the main point though - even if I had been informed, at 8pm on Sunday night when arriving, how would being informed have gotten me out any faster?
Originally Posted by VH-XXX
If you need permanent access or for more than the 48 hours, simply call the Management office and get a card issued. This takes about 10 minutes, costs $10 and arrives within only a couple of days.
To paraphrase Hung Start - why can't I use my ASIC! To restate my earlier question, how do I pick up an aircraft out of hours? To me the system doesn't cover all situations whereby pilots can legitimately need to access the airport.
UTR.
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Why can't they put a little magnetic chip in everyones shiney new ASIC card that opens doors around the country??
Shows how much thought those really smart people at DOTARS put into it!
Shows how much thought those really smart people at DOTARS put into it!
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as soon as they figure out how to charge for the addition of the magnetic strips, they will put them on the ASIC, or they will change them in the next 12 months, and make us pay for Upgraded asics
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We have the technology
Quote, posted by Jandakot pilot: Why can't they put a little magnetic chip in everyones shiney new ASIC card that opens doors around the country??
Shows how much thought those really smart people at DOTARS put into it!
To Jandakot Pilot/ & others
for the uninitiated ASIC persons. It is possible to insert a magnetic chip into an ASIC and place a magnetic swipe stipe on the back. I work airside at Kingsfor Smith and my work ASIC has both of these qualities. It is a little impractical to allow each and every pilots ASIC to open access gates at all ozzie airports. We should all be trust worthy but DOTARs won't take the risk I expect.
By the way, ASIC stands for Aviation Security Identification Card. So lets not call it an ASIC card.... Aviation Security Identification Card Card!
Bort.
Shows how much thought those really smart people at DOTARS put into it!
To Jandakot Pilot/ & others
for the uninitiated ASIC persons. It is possible to insert a magnetic chip into an ASIC and place a magnetic swipe stipe on the back. I work airside at Kingsfor Smith and my work ASIC has both of these qualities. It is a little impractical to allow each and every pilots ASIC to open access gates at all ozzie airports. We should all be trust worthy but DOTARs won't take the risk I expect.
By the way, ASIC stands for Aviation Security Identification Card. So lets not call it an ASIC card.... Aviation Security Identification Card Card!
Bort.
