QF Psychometric Testing
At AN it was said that you had to live in Essendon, barrack for Essendon and have a funny handshake to get on. Never noticed anything unusual myself.
Interesting thing would be what happens if someone challenges their rejection in court. Its happened in the U.S. and while the "aptitude" bit is easily upheld, the "personality" bit has always been thrown out.
There is no research that says you have to have the right "personality" to do a job, provided you are obviously not an out and out fruitcake.
Most of the personality tests are actually designed as diagnostic tools for mentally sick people, NOT as selection tools for sane people presenting to recruiters.
Interesting thing would be what happens if someone challenges their rejection in court. Its happened in the U.S. and while the "aptitude" bit is easily upheld, the "personality" bit has always been thrown out.
There is no research that says you have to have the right "personality" to do a job, provided you are obviously not an out and out fruitcake.
Most of the personality tests are actually designed as diagnostic tools for mentally sick people, NOT as selection tools for sane people presenting to recruiters.
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Yeh ..how many full blooded aboriginal captains does kwantas have ?
“Hey wawa...........takeoff”
“Aboriginal 421 line-up runway 16 and confirm eight zero zero POB”
“Yo..........family”
“Aboriginal 421 turn right heading 200 climb to fl140......if able, runway 16 cleared for takeoff”
“Takeoff........Yo”
If only
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Tinpis and HH - the lowest common denominator always goes for the racist issue for whatever reason.
Why dont you complain the fact that Cathay Pacific has predominantly expat pilots as do airlines such as Singapore.
What about Alaskan Airlines.......how many full blooded Alaskans there guys?
The Japanese employ many non Japanese pilots as do the Arab airlines.
Wanna go at them as well???
I suppose you two are backing affirmative action type employment such as in the US where minorities were employed and placed into senior positions on purpose and at everyone elses expense whilst in many cases not being qualified for the applicable position?
This led to pandemonium in their public service where unqualified people cost their economy billions and led to even more hatred of minorities.
With regard to full blooded Aboriginals, if any were to apply, met minimum qualifications, jumped thru the testing hoops like anybody else and presented themselves well at the interview then they would be hired - pure and simple and not just because they are indigenous.
I suppose you will start whinging about Australians going offshore and working as expat pilots next at the expense of other races !
Why dont you complain the fact that Cathay Pacific has predominantly expat pilots as do airlines such as Singapore.
What about Alaskan Airlines.......how many full blooded Alaskans there guys?
The Japanese employ many non Japanese pilots as do the Arab airlines.
Wanna go at them as well???
I suppose you two are backing affirmative action type employment such as in the US where minorities were employed and placed into senior positions on purpose and at everyone elses expense whilst in many cases not being qualified for the applicable position?
This led to pandemonium in their public service where unqualified people cost their economy billions and led to even more hatred of minorities.
With regard to full blooded Aboriginals, if any were to apply, met minimum qualifications, jumped thru the testing hoops like anybody else and presented themselves well at the interview then they would be hired - pure and simple and not just because they are indigenous.
I suppose you will start whinging about Australians going offshore and working as expat pilots next at the expense of other races !
Sprucegoose
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Mr Dreaming,
Please do not confuse an observation with a racist statement, perhaps I should go on to say that I have never actually met a full blooded pilot period. In fact I have only ever met one aboriginal pilot at all. Despite the fact that should any Indigenous Australian choose to pursue a career as a pilot, they may be inline for some serious subsidies...
Now back to my other point, how many full blooded Indigenous Autralians work at the Big Q (kneels down in reverence) at all?
I find it interesting that the people who tend to shout loudest about racism are the ones who know least about it, get out there and have a good look around my good man, whilst not a government policy, apharteid is alive and well in Australia.
If you want to do something about it, you need to recognise first that it exists, where it exists, try to understand it, only then will you be able to do something about.
By the way, your name in itself is a slur on aboriginal people. Perhaps that could be your first step...
Cheers, HH.
Please do not confuse an observation with a racist statement, perhaps I should go on to say that I have never actually met a full blooded pilot period. In fact I have only ever met one aboriginal pilot at all. Despite the fact that should any Indigenous Australian choose to pursue a career as a pilot, they may be inline for some serious subsidies...
Now back to my other point, how many full blooded Indigenous Autralians work at the Big Q (kneels down in reverence) at all?
I find it interesting that the people who tend to shout loudest about racism are the ones who know least about it, get out there and have a good look around my good man, whilst not a government policy, apharteid is alive and well in Australia.
If you want to do something about it, you need to recognise first that it exists, where it exists, try to understand it, only then will you be able to do something about.
By the way, your name in itself is a slur on aboriginal people. Perhaps that could be your first step...
Cheers, HH.
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HH,
dont worry about óle Beer Can, he is still cranky over the descent speeds thread.
How is that apology coming Beer Can Man? Man enough yet?
bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzz210below5inGzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
dont worry about óle Beer Can, he is still cranky over the descent speeds thread.
How is that apology coming Beer Can Man? Man enough yet?
bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzz210below5inGzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Dearest Mr Hughes,
To even suggest that my love of a beer after a long days/nights work is a slur on our indigenous citizens reaks of racism on your account !
How can my user name be a racial slur because I long for a coldie?????
HH - you talk about "full blooded" aboriginals.
I deem this a racial slur on those that are mixed race and an insult to all those others that are part aboriginal.
See where this is all going HH...........nowhere fast !!!!
Me thinks you are jumping on that bandwagon that you so easily complain about.
Apartheid you say???????
I know of 3 girls that are QF hosties that are aboriginal - full blooded if you want to use that expression.
I also know a few engineers of the same or similar extraction and quite a few ground staff also Howard.
You sound like those idiots in the USA that pushed affirmative action Howard - and see where that one panned out.
MR Buzzy - rumours around VB is that you are actually an FO.
Any truth ??
And what's with the stupid bbbbzzzzzzz crap at the end of your entries???
To even suggest that my love of a beer after a long days/nights work is a slur on our indigenous citizens reaks of racism on your account !
How can my user name be a racial slur because I long for a coldie?????
HH - you talk about "full blooded" aboriginals.
I deem this a racial slur on those that are mixed race and an insult to all those others that are part aboriginal.
See where this is all going HH...........nowhere fast !!!!
Me thinks you are jumping on that bandwagon that you so easily complain about.
Apartheid you say???????
I know of 3 girls that are QF hosties that are aboriginal - full blooded if you want to use that expression.
I also know a few engineers of the same or similar extraction and quite a few ground staff also Howard.
You sound like those idiots in the USA that pushed affirmative action Howard - and see where that one panned out.
MR Buzzy - rumours around VB is that you are actually an FO.
Any truth ??
And what's with the stupid bbbbzzzzzzz crap at the end of your entries???
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Sunfish, why are you playing a rascist line now? For your information, I personally know of two pilots of the Jewish faith and one part aboriginal. In the latest Qantas News there is a picture with around fifty aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders that are all employee's of Qantas. Go figure.
In fact Sunfish, you're really starting to get up my nose with your anti Qantas postings and "know all about business" rantings. This posting about race I find offensive. From what I can gather you don't even work as a pilot and the only pilots licence that you possess is a private one. So what exactly are you doing on this forum then?
In fact Sunfish, you're really starting to get up my nose with your anti Qantas postings and "know all about business" rantings. This posting about race I find offensive. From what I can gather you don't even work as a pilot and the only pilots licence that you possess is a private one. So what exactly are you doing on this forum then?
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To even suggest that my love of a beer after a long days/nights work is a slur on our indigenous citizens reaks of racism on your account !
I know of 3 girls that are QF hosties that are aboriginal - full blooded if you want to use that expression.
Apartheid you say???????
You sound like those idiots in the USA that pushed affirmative action Howard - and see where that one panned out.
Cheers, HH.
PS: I humbly apologise if your name is merely a reflection on your penchant for beer, I suspect however that it is not.
Thank you Mr. Boeing for your advice. It therefore appears that Qantas is not using its psychometric testing for discrimination which is why I asked the question in the first place.
The reason my question was relevent is that psychometric testing has been used in the past in a number of large U.S. organisations for covert discrimination. The courts have apparently put a stop to this practice.
The reason my question was relevent is that psychometric testing has been used in the past in a number of large U.S. organisations for covert discrimination. The courts have apparently put a stop to this practice.
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Sounds to me like you're back-pedalling Mr Hughes.
Anything to do with so called "racism" is a poison chalice.
Besides Mr Hughes, why dont you go to the media and politicians about these so called segregated bars, name them publicly and have them closed down I wonder.
Maybe you just dont care that much because you tout the fact that apartheid is rife in Oz but dont want to do anything about it as I suggested.
Just remember that states such as Victoria ( not NSW fortunately) have laws against racial/sexual and religious vilification.
All you have to do is make a public comment about any of the above and you are under severe scrutiny and could be in the firing line to be sued by one of many minority groups just want a name for themselves and to get their 15 minutes of fame.
And they're run by lawyers scraping for a buck typically that the media panders to.
I'm sure that if Qantas or any other large employer could have been sued they would have.
Besides Howard, I saw the QF pic of about 50 indigenous staff in the NT also.
But then again what would I know being Jewish and all that eh????
Besides HH, wasnt this thread about psychometric testing and not racism???
Stick to the topic.
Anything to do with so called "racism" is a poison chalice.
Besides Mr Hughes, why dont you go to the media and politicians about these so called segregated bars, name them publicly and have them closed down I wonder.
Maybe you just dont care that much because you tout the fact that apartheid is rife in Oz but dont want to do anything about it as I suggested.
Just remember that states such as Victoria ( not NSW fortunately) have laws against racial/sexual and religious vilification.
All you have to do is make a public comment about any of the above and you are under severe scrutiny and could be in the firing line to be sued by one of many minority groups just want a name for themselves and to get their 15 minutes of fame.
And they're run by lawyers scraping for a buck typically that the media panders to.
I'm sure that if Qantas or any other large employer could have been sued they would have.
Besides Howard, I saw the QF pic of about 50 indigenous staff in the NT also.
But then again what would I know being Jewish and all that eh????
Besides HH, wasnt this thread about psychometric testing and not racism???
Stick to the topic.
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Errrm..back on the topic..
Firstly, if you read up on this form of "testing", the jury is still out among professionals (and I mean psych specialists, NOT HR types) on this fad. It's been in increasing use now for 10-15 years and the main danger is that while it is a useful tool among many to help select the right person for the job, it's importance and accuracy in many cases is overemphasised , generally because your score is interpreted by poorly trained staff who have no psych background other than attending some overpriced 1 day seminar.
I know someone who used to use these tests in her HR job, and feels they were passingly helpful in selecting the right person, but her boss insisted on using them as the sole culling and selection tool (qualifications and experience being equal among applicants). Ultimately they ended up placing some highly efficient, ruthless sociopaths in a couple of positions and wound up with a flurry of resignations and a big mess on their hands.
Secondly, I've done a few psychometric tests over the past 15 years or so, and have had (I've gleaned) pretty much the same result/score each time. My success in getting a job offer has actually been more evident in the attitude of the interviewers during my interviews, which is to say, if they didn't like me, or were just going through the motions to place an insider in the job, I got no further than a second interview (and probably then only to make up the numbers).
Ultimately I'm glad I didn't end up getting some of those jobs. If a company isn't able to adopt a human approach to recruitment, and if this is some relection of that corporation's attitudes, why would you want to work there? You'll probably only end up being unhappy working with a bunch of %$##^&$.
Firstly, if you read up on this form of "testing", the jury is still out among professionals (and I mean psych specialists, NOT HR types) on this fad. It's been in increasing use now for 10-15 years and the main danger is that while it is a useful tool among many to help select the right person for the job, it's importance and accuracy in many cases is overemphasised , generally because your score is interpreted by poorly trained staff who have no psych background other than attending some overpriced 1 day seminar.
I know someone who used to use these tests in her HR job, and feels they were passingly helpful in selecting the right person, but her boss insisted on using them as the sole culling and selection tool (qualifications and experience being equal among applicants). Ultimately they ended up placing some highly efficient, ruthless sociopaths in a couple of positions and wound up with a flurry of resignations and a big mess on their hands.
Secondly, I've done a few psychometric tests over the past 15 years or so, and have had (I've gleaned) pretty much the same result/score each time. My success in getting a job offer has actually been more evident in the attitude of the interviewers during my interviews, which is to say, if they didn't like me, or were just going through the motions to place an insider in the job, I got no further than a second interview (and probably then only to make up the numbers).
Ultimately I'm glad I didn't end up getting some of those jobs. If a company isn't able to adopt a human approach to recruitment, and if this is some relection of that corporation's attitudes, why would you want to work there? You'll probably only end up being unhappy working with a bunch of %$##^&$.
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Thanks to all who have sent a reply. By reading the responses out there it appears to me the big Q has lost its way in the recruiting department.
1. There is a course at the moment to help with passing this test.
2. Having a pass in the psycho test does not necessarily mean you are better equipped to fly an aeroplane.
3. Psychologist agree the memory used in a computer to run the test is a waste of computer memory.
So if the people who design the psycho test don't believe there is any value in these tests """WHY""" does Qantas insist on using them?
1. There is a course at the moment to help with passing this test.
2. Having a pass in the psycho test does not necessarily mean you are better equipped to fly an aeroplane.
3. Psychologist agree the memory used in a computer to run the test is a waste of computer memory.
So if the people who design the psycho test don't believe there is any value in these tests """WHY""" does Qantas insist on using them?
Sprucegoose
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TIMMEEEE,
You don't know me from a bar of soap, how can you possibly make such assumptions about my character?
Cheers, HH.
You don't know me from a bar of soap, how can you possibly make such assumptions about my character?
Cheers, HH.
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It isn't a level playing field. There are plenty of people in the Qantas Group that haven't passed the Psycho test, either through the Austalian Airlines merger or the Jetstar (Impulse buyout).
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Beer Can Bozo,
so if you're up on all the VB rumours, you must be up on all their manuals too. Did you do your ammendments and get all red-faced?
Sh%t ...now what?.... can't admit to being wrong...... Must abuse Mr.Buzzy some more.....
Keep it coming Bozo.... the hole is getting deeper for you with every dig!
bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzz
so if you're up on all the VB rumours, you must be up on all their manuals too. Did you do your ammendments and get all red-faced?
Sh%t ...now what?.... can't admit to being wrong...... Must abuse Mr.Buzzy some more.....
Keep it coming Bozo.... the hole is getting deeper for you with every dig!
bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Well there certainly are some very interesting comments in this thread and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
The harsh reality of the situation is, that if you wish to work for a company that is part of the Qantas Group you will need to pass those skills, aptitude and psychometric tests. That's it, there is no way around it.
Just the same as if you want to join the army as a grunt, you have to pass a battery of aptitude tests. Or if you want to fly for the RAAF, same again (they are much harder than the Qantas battery). In fact these days it is a fairly common practice for most employers in non aviation sectors to have their potential employees put through a battery of tests to get a better idea of who they are dealing with.
The suggestion was made that you can learn to pass these tests. Maybe the skills and aptitude but not the psychometrics. You can't fool the system on those two tests, there are too many inbuilt markers that will show if you are being honest or not.
The other comment I would like to offer to readers of this post is just because you make it through to the Sim and Interview doesn't mean that you will get an offer of employment. The Qantas group can pick and choose who they want. If you go in and have a bad sim, then that is hard but if you haven't developed an instrument scan in your day to day flying you won't have one in the 45 minutes that you are flying that sim.
There is an acceptable amount of nerves that is taken into account with scoring your session, but either you can fly the profile or you can't. It's no secret what is expected of you, and it's not like you don't know that you are going to do it.
I am sure that there will be a number of people that will say that my post has been a waste of time to read, but to those people I say that proper preparation and planning on your behalf will make your life so much easier on the day.
My final thought. If you go through the process and give it 100%effort and are unsuccessful then you can hold your head high and say that you did your best, but if you didn't do everything possible to give yourself the best chance then you were never being fair to yourself.
The system may not be perfect but it is the one we are stuck with ladies and gents so adapt, improvise and overcome!
Best of Luck to all of you who have the focus and determination to get what you want out of life.
The harsh reality of the situation is, that if you wish to work for a company that is part of the Qantas Group you will need to pass those skills, aptitude and psychometric tests. That's it, there is no way around it.
Just the same as if you want to join the army as a grunt, you have to pass a battery of aptitude tests. Or if you want to fly for the RAAF, same again (they are much harder than the Qantas battery). In fact these days it is a fairly common practice for most employers in non aviation sectors to have their potential employees put through a battery of tests to get a better idea of who they are dealing with.
The suggestion was made that you can learn to pass these tests. Maybe the skills and aptitude but not the psychometrics. You can't fool the system on those two tests, there are too many inbuilt markers that will show if you are being honest or not.
The other comment I would like to offer to readers of this post is just because you make it through to the Sim and Interview doesn't mean that you will get an offer of employment. The Qantas group can pick and choose who they want. If you go in and have a bad sim, then that is hard but if you haven't developed an instrument scan in your day to day flying you won't have one in the 45 minutes that you are flying that sim.
There is an acceptable amount of nerves that is taken into account with scoring your session, but either you can fly the profile or you can't. It's no secret what is expected of you, and it's not like you don't know that you are going to do it.
I am sure that there will be a number of people that will say that my post has been a waste of time to read, but to those people I say that proper preparation and planning on your behalf will make your life so much easier on the day.
My final thought. If you go through the process and give it 100%effort and are unsuccessful then you can hold your head high and say that you did your best, but if you didn't do everything possible to give yourself the best chance then you were never being fair to yourself.
The system may not be perfect but it is the one we are stuck with ladies and gents so adapt, improvise and overcome!
Best of Luck to all of you who have the focus and determination to get what you want out of life.