Am I getting ripped off?
The sim time is definitely a crock and I would be very suspicious of that sort of nonsense.
However, I'm going to go out on a limb and go against what everyone else has said - I believe a 0.5 sortie in ground ops and taxiing is not such a bad idea! The institution I used to work at implemented this and whilst it sounds ridiculous it does serve a purpose.
The main reason is that it gives the student a chance to consolidate checklists (which previously they had just been learning by sitting in the aircraft), without the added pressure of actually getting airborne. They get familiar with taxiways, where to do run ups, the run up and pre-take off procedure itself. The actual art of taxiing isn't that hard of course, we all know that, but that's not the aim of the lesson.
There's nothing worse than getting in an aircraft with a student who is really struggling with checklists, where the hell they are taxiing (a common thing at places like BK), general SOPs etc. They have used all of their learning capacity for that lesson already, you may as well just turn around and go back when you get to the holding point. A short sortie in ground ops goes some way to alleviating this.
So yeah, a taxiing lesson may seem ridiculous, but provided the intent is there it's not such a bad idea. If it looks like they're trying to just scam soime cash (and 2hrs worth would suggest that!) then run as far as you can.
Cheers,
TL
However, I'm going to go out on a limb and go against what everyone else has said - I believe a 0.5 sortie in ground ops and taxiing is not such a bad idea! The institution I used to work at implemented this and whilst it sounds ridiculous it does serve a purpose.
The main reason is that it gives the student a chance to consolidate checklists (which previously they had just been learning by sitting in the aircraft), without the added pressure of actually getting airborne. They get familiar with taxiways, where to do run ups, the run up and pre-take off procedure itself. The actual art of taxiing isn't that hard of course, we all know that, but that's not the aim of the lesson.
There's nothing worse than getting in an aircraft with a student who is really struggling with checklists, where the hell they are taxiing (a common thing at places like BK), general SOPs etc. They have used all of their learning capacity for that lesson already, you may as well just turn around and go back when you get to the holding point. A short sortie in ground ops goes some way to alleviating this.
So yeah, a taxiing lesson may seem ridiculous, but provided the intent is there it's not such a bad idea. If it looks like they're trying to just scam soime cash (and 2hrs worth would suggest that!) then run as far as you can.
Cheers,
TL
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: lost
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have heard of this outrage and can confirm it is all true.
TL I agree that say .5 of an hour to teach taxiing may be of some benifit. However two hours would be a crock. Can you imagin the condition of the spark plugs after idling around on the ground for hours on end?
I wont even get started on the sim.
Pastadola Run...
TL I agree that say .5 of an hour to teach taxiing may be of some benifit. However two hours would be a crock. Can you imagin the condition of the spark plugs after idling around on the ground for hours on end?
I wont even get started on the sim.
Pastadola Run...
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, I’d agree that 0.5 taxiing as part of your first flight would be of benefit. It seems to me that the sim is just a money spinner with the added benefit of teaching the student bat habits from the start. Then the student would take longer to train to the required standard airborne and spend more money. Find a school that emphasizes attitude flying.
Mention Consumer Affairs when asking for your money back. If that doesn’t help, which I doubt then just get them involved. Don’t let this episode affect your interest or motivation with flying. There are some good flying schools out there I’m sure.
The funny thing is you get trained by the sharks, then go looking for your first job and go swimming with them.
Mention Consumer Affairs when asking for your money back. If that doesn’t help, which I doubt then just get them involved. Don’t let this episode affect your interest or motivation with flying. There are some good flying schools out there I’m sure.
The funny thing is you get trained by the sharks, then go looking for your first job and go swimming with them.
Registered User **
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.5 for sure, even say a few fast tail up taxis on a tailwheel would be useful, but 2 hours on a bloody warrior ? and the sim time so early on? c'mon, thats just taking the 
piss.
I wonder how much they pay for their uniforms, bet thats also a rip off.
who sets the Syllabus there ? if it is ADL, then it just justifies what I always thought about the place.
piss.I wonder how much they pay for their uniforms, bet thats also a rip off.
who sets the Syllabus there ? if it is ADL, then it just justifies what I always thought about the place.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: over the rainbow
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pastadolla,if they've ripped you off for 6 hours worth before you've even been off the ground imagine how much they will be able screw out of you before you get anywhere near a licence test.Leave now!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: back to the land of small pay and big bills
Age: 50
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I understand it, you cannot log any time in an aircraft unless it was started for the purposes of a flight, therefore, this time is useless to you and your instructor..plus the school will be using the standard maintenence proceedure of only using airtime to calculate time between inspections..
ie you are not benifiting, your instructor is not benifiting, and the school is making pure profit minus idle speed fuel burn...their accountant has gotta love this one!!!
ie you are not benifiting, your instructor is not benifiting, and the school is making pure profit minus idle speed fuel burn...their accountant has gotta love this one!!!
Get real!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mate!
Pastadolla,
U got your choices, talk to Albie or Steve Thatcher and see what they say. The lectures at UNISA are great all of them including Terry Keen and very experienced.
By the way who is your flying instructor out there?
Till then, happy landings!
Susheel
U got your choices, talk to Albie or Steve Thatcher and see what they say. The lectures at UNISA are great all of them including Terry Keen and very experienced.
By the way who is your flying instructor out there?
Till then, happy landings!
Susheel
7gc,
would have to agree with you with tailwheels, but trikes......
i reckon everyone would be better off doing to first part of their licence at a quiet contry airfield, so your focus can be on actually learning to fly without all the other stuff. you also don't waste the 10-20 minutes taxying every hour.
pastadolla,
find somwhere else.
185.
would have to agree with you with tailwheels, but trikes......
i reckon everyone would be better off doing to first part of their licence at a quiet contry airfield, so your focus can be on actually learning to fly without all the other stuff. you also don't waste the 10-20 minutes taxying every hour.
pastadolla,
find somwhere else.
185.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: over the rainbow
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I getting ripped off?
Longer answer..........Don't worry you have plenty of company, Welcome to the wonderful world of those magnificent men and their flying machines
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 355R 10DME
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Susheel
Experienced !! You have got to be joking.
TK is not a pilot.
AF is very very ex pilot.
How many of your instructors have ever flown a charter or even worked in the industry? Have they flown anything other than a warrior?
The CFI is the only person with the credentials. His hands are tied with all the bureaucracy that comes from the Uni.
Pastadola run fast!
U got your choices, talk to Albie or Steve Thatcher and see what they say. The lectures at UNISA are great all of them including Terry Keen and very experienced.
TK is not a pilot.
AF is very very ex pilot.
How many of your instructors have ever flown a charter or even worked in the industry? Have they flown anything other than a warrior?
The CFI is the only person with the credentials. His hands are tied with all the bureaucracy that comes from the Uni.
Pastadola run fast!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hEY
Iva,
Terry does or did hold a cpl and did some charter jobs ( cant be sure of the jobs he did but quite sure he held a CPL) . As much as Albie has been out....he still knows whats going on in the industry.
Well from personal experience, i did not fly at the academy but ST did give me an exelent mark for Flight Planing !
As for the others i cant say much as i have not had much contact with.
All i said was for that guy to speak to them for alternatives.
Cheers
Terry does or did hold a cpl and did some charter jobs ( cant be sure of the jobs he did but quite sure he held a CPL) . As much as Albie has been out....he still knows whats going on in the industry.
Well from personal experience, i did not fly at the academy but ST did give me an exelent mark for Flight Planing !
As for the others i cant say much as i have not had much contact with.
All i said was for that guy to speak to them for alternatives.
Cheers
The taxying crock has been well covered.
Regarding doing 2 hour Sim before getting in an Aircraft- Does this sim have decent visuals? Where you being taught to fly by primary visual reference and was look-out stressed?
If they are starting you out in an instrument procedual trainer, giving primacy to head-down IF flying, they are not just rip-off artists, they are lousy teachers as well!
Regarding doing 2 hour Sim before getting in an Aircraft- Does this sim have decent visuals? Where you being taught to fly by primary visual reference and was look-out stressed?
If they are starting you out in an instrument procedual trainer, giving primacy to head-down IF flying, they are not just rip-off artists, they are lousy teachers as well!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ask the powers that be there for a space shuttle endorsement.
If you stay there you might as well get ripped off totally.
taxy prac...do it as part of training flight, if problems, then address them with practice or other form.
Sim...like getting into a burner and told to set up the FMC at ab initio stage, waste of time.
All the previous posts,(including mine) say the same thing.
runrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrun
If you stay there you might as well get ripped off totally.
taxy prac...do it as part of training flight, if problems, then address them with practice or other form.
Sim...like getting into a burner and told to set up the FMC at ab initio stage, waste of time.
All the previous posts,(including mine) say the same thing.
runrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrun
People relax. This is quite obviously a wind up!!!!
The sim is very capable and has great graphics.
While I don't necissarily agree with the whole 2 hrs taxi time, I think those of you that are drawing conclusions about other things completely unrelated to this should get your facts straight before you go posting.