Air Services 455% price hike - HELP!
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Air Services 455% price hike - HELP!
Good Evening (as I write this) all,
As you may know Air Services Australia (AsA) is moving towards 100% cost recovery. This represents an increase of 455% on current charges.
This may well cripple many air operators and in turn any businesses or individuals who benefit from a vibrant and well funded - therefore safe, aviation industry.
AsA has asked for submissions before 30th June 2004. I suggest, even if you don't make this (typically late notice) date that you make submissions to AsA and all of the political and corporate addresses listed on our site.
You can see what it's all about at www.australis.biz/asapricing
Other airports and sectors of the industry are under threat too - we'd would be happy to host public access information for you too.
And, we are a free site - clicks on the Google adds, help. Thanks.
As you may know Air Services Australia (AsA) is moving towards 100% cost recovery. This represents an increase of 455% on current charges.
This may well cripple many air operators and in turn any businesses or individuals who benefit from a vibrant and well funded - therefore safe, aviation industry.
AsA has asked for submissions before 30th June 2004. I suggest, even if you don't make this (typically late notice) date that you make submissions to AsA and all of the political and corporate addresses listed on our site.
You can see what it's all about at www.australis.biz/asapricing
Other airports and sectors of the industry are under threat too - we'd would be happy to host public access information for you too.
And, we are a free site - clicks on the Google adds, help. Thanks.
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Scr$W em!
Tell air( no )services to get lost!
What are they gonna do? put a fence around all the airspace to stop non paying pilots from landing at the airport? Tell them to get bent and put the ridiculous terminal charges where the sun dont shine!
On a more constructive note, why not add $10 to each ticket on QF and VB and J* etc flights. The public would pay and it would more than cover the cost for terminal charges. Why should GA bear the disproportionate cost for every thing?
My 2c.
What are they gonna do? put a fence around all the airspace to stop non paying pilots from landing at the airport? Tell them to get bent and put the ridiculous terminal charges where the sun dont shine!
On a more constructive note, why not add $10 to each ticket on QF and VB and J* etc flights. The public would pay and it would more than cover the cost for terminal charges. Why should GA bear the disproportionate cost for every thing?
My 2c.
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There's some info on the AOPA website about the proposal, and a submission to fill in and send to AirServices.
http://www.aopa.com.au/
http://www.aopa.com.au/
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Thanx for the great suggestions regarding levying VB Q & J* - it seems simple and logical doesn't it?
But I remember that being rejected years ago when another draconian tax hit GA. It seems the airlines then had no interest in playing fair... do they now?
Good on AOPA for getting involved. I thank them for their help - I will go and look at what they have to say.
Our proposal was modified from another and made a little more generalised. Their are other possible solutions of course. We set about putting something that most people could agree to 'out there' as time is short.
Last check of the numbers yesterday. Site hits 147 (hopefully with emails sent by those who hit the page link) and pages faxed from our fax machine 360. A good start but the various powers that be, need to realise we ain't gunna wear it again and there are other solutions!
If you haven't had a chance to help out, yet: www.australis.biz/asapricing
Once again - thank you ALL!
But I remember that being rejected years ago when another draconian tax hit GA. It seems the airlines then had no interest in playing fair... do they now?
Good on AOPA for getting involved. I thank them for their help - I will go and look at what they have to say.
Our proposal was modified from another and made a little more generalised. Their are other possible solutions of course. We set about putting something that most people could agree to 'out there' as time is short.
Last check of the numbers yesterday. Site hits 147 (hopefully with emails sent by those who hit the page link) and pages faxed from our fax machine 360. A good start but the various powers that be, need to realise we ain't gunna wear it again and there are other solutions!
If you haven't had a chance to help out, yet: www.australis.biz/asapricing
Once again - thank you ALL!
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Gerard,
This price increase will not only affect GA, but the regional airlines will be hit very hard. The only regional that would not be affected by this would be Qantaslink(Eastern and Sunstate), due to the fact they are 100% owned by Qantas. All the other regionals in Australia would suffer. I'm 100% behind what you are fighting for but don't say it's another tax slugged on GA.
I agree pass it onto Qantas, Virgin Blue and Jetstar, a $10-$15 increase in ticket price what affect their passenger numbers, but a passing the same onto the regional's will have a very large affect on their passenger numbers.
This price increase will not only affect GA, but the regional airlines will be hit very hard. The only regional that would not be affected by this would be Qantaslink(Eastern and Sunstate), due to the fact they are 100% owned by Qantas. All the other regionals in Australia would suffer. I'm 100% behind what you are fighting for but don't say it's another tax slugged on GA.
I agree pass it onto Qantas, Virgin Blue and Jetstar, a $10-$15 increase in ticket price what affect their passenger numbers, but a passing the same onto the regional's will have a very large affect on their passenger numbers.
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Has someone thought of asking QF, VB J* if THEY would be happy paying $41 / tonne landing charges? I bet they WONT! They would be banging on the ministers door on the middle of the night!
200 tonne aircraft x $41 = $8200 each and every sector! x how many sectors each aircraft each day etc.
I have no idea of actual landing weights of each aircraft type but it would be at least a factor of 10+ above any single or twin operating in GA.
The fact that the airlines will not wear this cost must be why they will only be charged about $3 / tonne (so I have been told).
Not much of a level playing field eh?
Before someone tells me, I realise $41/t is location specific to YPJT only, but other airports will have even higher charges, I used $41 as an example only. There is no way Airservices would dare charge QF et al at Sydney anything like this as I said above.
200 tonne aircraft x $41 = $8200 each and every sector! x how many sectors each aircraft each day etc.
I have no idea of actual landing weights of each aircraft type but it would be at least a factor of 10+ above any single or twin operating in GA.
The fact that the airlines will not wear this cost must be why they will only be charged about $3 / tonne (so I have been told).
Not much of a level playing field eh?
Before someone tells me, I realise $41/t is location specific to YPJT only, but other airports will have even higher charges, I used $41 as an example only. There is no way Airservices would dare charge QF et al at Sydney anything like this as I said above.
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Very glad to see that AOPA's stance on this. From a mob who supported LSC in the beginning, and a select few members of which were largely responsible for the mess we have now, they have finally redeemed themselves. Thanks AOPA. Let's all stick together now and sort this mess out.
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Thank you for raising the Regional Airlines element in all of ths. I had not fully appreciated it.
There will be many sectors adversely affected in many different ways - right down to the coffee shop at the airport... (and I got 30 plus submissions from them and their patrons yesterday, at Jandakot.)
One thing that strikes me is that we are being hit with changes and charges in a fairly intense timeframe. One masking the influence of the other - possibly?
A further element to this flood of change and charges it has been put to me is that there is an overall strategy emerging to eradicate the 'small' CPL flight school from the industry.
Why? Again it has been suggested that CASA would find the regulation of a small handfull of large schools much easier than now.
The spin off of this is large flight schools will be the only source of professional flight training. And who owns the big fight schools? The major airlines! So, start up, independant airlines such as VB would not be able to source crew...
Interesting concept, as I say, put to me by someone who 'should know'. Any comments?
Finally for now, thanks for all the email submissions overnight. We are now in the closing days and your support is greatly appreciated.
Go to www.australis.biz/asapricing please and put an email submission in for us and all who use towered airports. It only takes a few clicks and your name entered at the bottom to send off your oppinion and make it count!
Fly safe.
Ged.
There will be many sectors adversely affected in many different ways - right down to the coffee shop at the airport... (and I got 30 plus submissions from them and their patrons yesterday, at Jandakot.)
One thing that strikes me is that we are being hit with changes and charges in a fairly intense timeframe. One masking the influence of the other - possibly?
A further element to this flood of change and charges it has been put to me is that there is an overall strategy emerging to eradicate the 'small' CPL flight school from the industry.
Why? Again it has been suggested that CASA would find the regulation of a small handfull of large schools much easier than now.
The spin off of this is large flight schools will be the only source of professional flight training. And who owns the big fight schools? The major airlines! So, start up, independant airlines such as VB would not be able to source crew...
Interesting concept, as I say, put to me by someone who 'should know'. Any comments?
Finally for now, thanks for all the email submissions overnight. We are now in the closing days and your support is greatly appreciated.
Go to www.australis.biz/asapricing please and put an email submission in for us and all who use towered airports. It only takes a few clicks and your name entered at the bottom to send off your oppinion and make it count!
Fly safe.
Ged.
Moderator
Paranoid I may be, but the agenda here is not particularly well hidden.
From the meetings I've been lucky enough to know about and been able to attend, the gist is that whatever the outcome of this consultation farce, JA has made a committment to DS to bring this in no matter what. Even if it's not the way Airservices want to go. Now it would be pretty obvious to them two that it will cause mass casualties in the GA industry and make towered airports non viable very quickly. They don't need us to tell them what they already know and don't give a stuff about.. To further introduce uncertainty and shatter what's left of business confidence in the industry is just another weapon they have to accelerate the process. For as long as those two are allowed to make the decisions things will only get worse and there are a few of us who realise that this is just the beginning, the next thing will be that CASA have to go to full cost recovery and make a profit too. When we asked the airport manager if they would make a committment to keep thier prices down if Airservices do there was no reply.
Ged hon have you spoken to your buddies in the tower, they face job loss and/or relocation too if this goes ahead. Civil Air have got some bargaining power. Just a thought.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could all be compensated with an ansett type ticket levy if we lose everything.
From the meetings I've been lucky enough to know about and been able to attend, the gist is that whatever the outcome of this consultation farce, JA has made a committment to DS to bring this in no matter what. Even if it's not the way Airservices want to go. Now it would be pretty obvious to them two that it will cause mass casualties in the GA industry and make towered airports non viable very quickly. They don't need us to tell them what they already know and don't give a stuff about.. To further introduce uncertainty and shatter what's left of business confidence in the industry is just another weapon they have to accelerate the process. For as long as those two are allowed to make the decisions things will only get worse and there are a few of us who realise that this is just the beginning, the next thing will be that CASA have to go to full cost recovery and make a profit too. When we asked the airport manager if they would make a committment to keep thier prices down if Airservices do there was no reply.
Ged hon have you spoken to your buddies in the tower, they face job loss and/or relocation too if this goes ahead. Civil Air have got some bargaining power. Just a thought.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could all be compensated with an ansett type ticket levy if we lose everything.
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Mornin' my dear CFI - It's sad that you may be thinking there is nothing to be done... I must say sometimes I feel as if 'they' are going to get us one way or another - anyway!
Yes, spoke to some in the Tower and got some signatures! Some of the old boys however, under their relatively cushy, government throwback contracts know they will be 'alright' anyway... regardless.
How lovely to know that even if you have no job left to do - you will be financially comfortable.
We are in the wrong end of our game aren't we...?
Talk to you soon, did you and your guys get any 'submissions' in to the price review? There is a 'neutralised' one on the site. Can even be sent by email with a little cutting and pasting...
Take care & fly safe,
Ged.
Yes, spoke to some in the Tower and got some signatures! Some of the old boys however, under their relatively cushy, government throwback contracts know they will be 'alright' anyway... regardless.
How lovely to know that even if you have no job left to do - you will be financially comfortable.
We are in the wrong end of our game aren't we...?
Talk to you soon, did you and your guys get any 'submissions' in to the price review? There is a 'neutralised' one on the site. Can even be sent by email with a little cutting and pasting...
Take care & fly safe,
Ged.
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Just received the following email
AOPA has just received notice that the final date for submissions has
been extended to the 14th July 2004.
Over the past week AOPA has campaigned to have this deadline extended to
enable the industry to have their say.
After a positive meeting with Airservices CEO Bernie Smith, AOPA
President Ron Bertram is happy with the response and urges all those
that have not made a submission to do so as quickly as possible.
AOPA would like to thank those members who have had their say but the
industry needs to drive home the message that these increases are not
acceptable.
To make a submission go to www.aopa.com.au and follow the instructions
to use the AOPA submission as a template.
To learn more about the price increase proposal go to
www.airservicesaustralia.com and follow the links to "price review".
Regards,
Daniel Parsons
Office Manager
been extended to the 14th July 2004.
Over the past week AOPA has campaigned to have this deadline extended to
enable the industry to have their say.
After a positive meeting with Airservices CEO Bernie Smith, AOPA
President Ron Bertram is happy with the response and urges all those
that have not made a submission to do so as quickly as possible.
AOPA would like to thank those members who have had their say but the
industry needs to drive home the message that these increases are not
acceptable.
To make a submission go to www.aopa.com.au and follow the instructions
to use the AOPA submission as a template.
To learn more about the price increase proposal go to
www.airservicesaustralia.com and follow the links to "price review".
Regards,
Daniel Parsons
Office Manager
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****su
There's also one in Vic
Don't know of any meeting in Qld for you
Airservices Australia is holding a pricing consultation meeting at Bankstown Airport.
As a customer of Airservices you are invited to attend the meeting.
Location: Terminal Building, Bankstown Airport
Date: Wednesday, 7th July 2004
Time: 7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
As a customer of Airservices you are invited to attend the meeting.
Location: Terminal Building, Bankstown Airport
Date: Wednesday, 7th July 2004
Time: 7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
A meeting to discuss the effects of the proposed Airservices charges on Moorabbin will be held at Royal Victorian Aero Club tomorrow night (Wednesday 7 July) at 7.00 pm.
If you can make it, get along and add your voice. AsA must be told of the ramifications of their proposal.
If you can make it, get along and add your voice. AsA must be told of the ramifications of their proposal.
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I popped along to the meeting at BK see what it was all about. There were about 50 people present representing the various operators at BK. The guys from ASA did their little presentation on why its all happening, and what plans they have for the future - such as $4m for a brand new tower at BK etc. ?!?!
After that the floor was open and lots of people made their point.
1. It was pointed out that the prices are completely unrealistic, and there won't be a need for a new tower as there won't be an airport
2. ASA agree that the prices cannot happen as the industry can't take it, and something must happen.
3. Some of the ideas were
* Remove the services. eg close the tower at BK and CN. Closing BK tower is dependent on CASA who decide whether an field needs a tower, CN has less movements but the safety case done last year found most movements occur on weekends so the tower remains open then. With the closure of Hoxton obviously BK and CN will see some increase in the movements.
* Subsidies - Tell the government to bloody pay up. Maybe a change of government would help...
* Some other pricing policy
* Network Pricing - Instead of doing the charge per location - apply the same charges everywhere. This would result in an across the board $6.90 landing charge. The problem is the airlines wouldn't accept them 'cross-subsidising' GA. Someone pointed out that GA has been subisiding the airlines for years - they don't pay a cent for pilot training but the flying schools and small charter companies pay with the constant turnover of pilots. Also ACCC don't want cross-subsidisations
* Basin Pricing - Charge the same fee for all airports in say the Sydney Basin. This would see a small increase in the price currently paid for Sydney. The reasoning for this was that all 3 Sydney airports are interlinked - the price hikes indicated would see traffic migrate from CN to BK and then to SY for the lower charges. Can you see C152s landing at SY? The problems with this are the same as above
4. Also, there were some far reaching ideas about alternatives to ASA ATC. For example in Ardmore NZ apparently instructors operate a quasi-control tower for about 1/10th the price.
It was an interesting evening (although I missed most of the State of Origin) - and I think a little positive came out of it, with the guys from ASA saying they would be taking these points to the minister, along with all the submissions made (there have been a truckload)
After that the floor was open and lots of people made their point.
1. It was pointed out that the prices are completely unrealistic, and there won't be a need for a new tower as there won't be an airport
2. ASA agree that the prices cannot happen as the industry can't take it, and something must happen.
3. Some of the ideas were
* Remove the services. eg close the tower at BK and CN. Closing BK tower is dependent on CASA who decide whether an field needs a tower, CN has less movements but the safety case done last year found most movements occur on weekends so the tower remains open then. With the closure of Hoxton obviously BK and CN will see some increase in the movements.
* Subsidies - Tell the government to bloody pay up. Maybe a change of government would help...
* Some other pricing policy
* Network Pricing - Instead of doing the charge per location - apply the same charges everywhere. This would result in an across the board $6.90 landing charge. The problem is the airlines wouldn't accept them 'cross-subsidising' GA. Someone pointed out that GA has been subisiding the airlines for years - they don't pay a cent for pilot training but the flying schools and small charter companies pay with the constant turnover of pilots. Also ACCC don't want cross-subsidisations
* Basin Pricing - Charge the same fee for all airports in say the Sydney Basin. This would see a small increase in the price currently paid for Sydney. The reasoning for this was that all 3 Sydney airports are interlinked - the price hikes indicated would see traffic migrate from CN to BK and then to SY for the lower charges. Can you see C152s landing at SY? The problems with this are the same as above
4. Also, there were some far reaching ideas about alternatives to ASA ATC. For example in Ardmore NZ apparently instructors operate a quasi-control tower for about 1/10th the price.
It was an interesting evening (although I missed most of the State of Origin) - and I think a little positive came out of it, with the guys from ASA saying they would be taking these points to the minister, along with all the submissions made (there have been a truckload)
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Bullsh*t. AirServices need to learn money don't grow on trees. Sucking more money from the government to support inefficient union bludgers is sucking money from the poor taxpayer. Uncommon Sense, we are all a bit tired of your useless ramblings. Pull your head in, son!
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No need to swear, chill out. If you're talking about "tired" of Uncommon Sense's posts, talk about your own first. I'm tired of all your swearing and bad temper. Learn to control your temper and think before you post. Again I say if you hate discussing things about Australia so much, there are many other places on this forum where you can go to. I have nothing against you hating Australia but please share it with us nicely, not with swearing. I'm sure everyone can see how bad tempered you are from how you post.
Take it easy
Wunala
Take it easy
Wunala
