AOPA - 4 Directors resign
Elections : Voting Due by 7th May
How many of the candidates on the 2004 ballot paper are actually standing for re-election ?
Gary Gaunt appears to be the only one of the 4 recently resigned directors who has indicated that he will stand again.
I take it that Adrienne Williams will not be standing for re-election, and that her name should be disregarded when voting??
I've never missed a vote in 41 years, but I like to know who's in the field and don't wish to waste a vote.
Advice please Mr AOPA President.
happy days,
How many of the candidates on the 2004 ballot paper are actually standing for re-election ?
Gary Gaunt appears to be the only one of the 4 recently resigned directors who has indicated that he will stand again.
I take it that Adrienne Williams will not be standing for re-election, and that her name should be disregarded when voting??
I've never missed a vote in 41 years, but I like to know who's in the field and don't wish to waste a vote.
Advice please Mr AOPA President.
happy days,
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Creampuff my sentiments exactly.
Bob Murphie I can see you are going to be a fun and constructive member of the board.
brianh
Let's get personal then shall we and deal with the sophist claptrap disguised as intellectually rigourous debate. B&gger I think I just committed a tautology.
Your despicable (thanks Creamie) invocation of Joe Goebbels and others of his ilk, has been very much abused by the intellectually bankrupt and lazy as a throw away line to attempt to win cheap points.
But then why would I be surprised, your mates are masters at the self serving propaganda which they hope would drive the AOPA members on to the CASA and Government guns, but I do not think they are anywhere near as clever as old Joe, nor the 6,000 odd ex AOPA members were.
AOPA IMHO has been a laughing stock in the places that count in this country for at least the last decade and the 6,000 plus ex members seem to agree with me.
Suing AOPA US, cost = $250,000 that we know of, benefit = 0 that I can find.
Suing CASA or whatever they were called then = cost unknown = benefit =<<0
Spending over $30,000 on brochures for an 2002 Aviation Expo that were not distributed and the stall not attended by any members or the Directors responsible and don’t even make good pulp for recycling.
The sexing up of the accounts (yup the old prepaid issue again) some years ago to make them look better than they really were in the face of a rapidly declining membership.
Expecting those that are called, publicly, “bastards”, “the enemy”, you’ve heard it all before, to then deal with you in a constructive manner.
My famous next door neighbour psychiatrist describes one measure of insanity as “continuing to do the same things in the expectation of a obtaining different result”, but I digress.
To dispose of your truly Goebbelian
rhetoric, you have attempted to disguise as serious questions ??
Typically bankrupt mental gymnastics in that one, the Cirque de Soleil would snap you up in a minute.
It is NOT the AOPA boards’ role to choose to be or not to be receptive of me or anyone else elected by the members.
A Director is elected by the members on the merits of his views, background and experience, to represent them on their behalf. They voted for him/her, to the Board, for that purpose, NOT whether is he does or does not sing the party song and you have the impertinence to invoke Goebbels.
My views have been well know waaay before my election, they have not changed and my actions have always on concert with them.
In other words how otherwise are the members to effect change if that is their wish.
I do not recall signing an agreement that required me to act and vote according to anyone else’s fantasies.
I really don’t know, I have my own ideas, but I can only guess it’s for the same reason that old Joe and his fellow thugs found it necessary to “correct” the free flow of thoughts, ideas and information “in the interests of the members” of course.
There’s been lots of the usual huff, puff, thunder and lightning, smoke and mirrors that the 6,000 odd ex members have come to accept as the usual modus operandi bandied about but so far and as usual no actual substance.
Joe would have been so very very proud of you; he used this very technique, reckoned to be his favorite and most effective, with devastating effect.
Promote a populist conspiracy theory, add a couple of cups of half truth and innuendo, a cwt or two of demonizing, mix thoroughly and bingo, Kristallnacht or AOPAnacht if you wish. Hell let's get into some bookburning whilst we are at it.
Let’s just kill the rumour and innuendo first shall we.
Fact: The Director to whom you would allude is none other than myself.
Fact: The position was NOT advertised and I did NOT apply, a small number identified by the exec search company (a highly respected one at that) as having the potential to fill the position, were invited to discuss the position with them. I believe no more than 6 people agreed to engage for what was seen by many as a poisoned chalice.
We were promised strict confidentiality and a quick result.
The successful candidate with whom they wished to continue further negotiations was identified by them very quickly, the final announcement was kept secret and was dependant on the passing of the enabling legislation and the successful agreement on the terms and conditions.
Bruce Byron was always going to be the man if they could entice him on board. He and Bruce Gemmel will make a formidable team.
Fact: Strict confidentiality required that I limit the knowledge to all but the absolute minimum. I advised the Pres and VP, both lawyers and of course my immediate family, who were not by the way, enthralled at the prospect. I should not have to draw you a picture of the extent to which it would have remained confidential should I have informed the board at large.
Stupid I am not and most reasonable persons would agree, a pair of lawyers would have been capable of resolving any potential conflicts.
How one of your AGACF mates got on to it and published it here, is a mystery that perhaps you are able to solve. I have my own theories, which shall remain mine, I know whom I told and whom I did not.
Fact: It was all over bar the shouting I think in the first week of Sept, well before the Notice of Motion was even lodged or discussed if my memory serves me correctly.
You should also be careful when you link the words Strict Liability, “sellout” and the above. Alluding to, in this context is the same as actually saying it.
Finally on the particular matter of SL, apart from a bunch of the aforesaid “huff ‘n puff and thunder and lightning”, would you please point me to the “hundreds” of CASA regs that were NOT already or would be deemed by the courts as SL and what harsher enforcement measures are now available to CASA, that were not already and that are not softer options than previously available.
I didn’t invent SL anymore than I personally visited it exclusively on the aviation community.
If you have a problem with that, you might take it up with the Government of the day not the individual regulators as it is they, the Govt., who make the running on the law as policy and in the legislature.
Go and read carefully what I and Creampuff and those much cleverer and more highly qualified in the law, have provided for your education.
There WAS a board majority on the issue, I do not intend to make public the internal communication on it.
Please explain to me the difference between a “bare” majority and a majority, or to make it simple for you, when is a majority not a majority.
The subsequent treachery and reasons for it, I will not discuss publicly.
The majority of the board TWICE refused Pagani’s subsequent demands resulting in her resignation, beyond that I will say no more, it’s on the record.
If you do not have the wit to understand the way it really works, I cannot debate this issue with you any further, if all that is at stake is political mileage.
In which case AOPA will continue to be an irrelevancy.
You will be pleased to learn, I have stopped beating my wife and I no longer feel the urge to mess about with small furry animals, or little boys for that matter.
By the mien you have demonstrated here, you are clearly not interested in the actual answer other than as an opportunity for more sophistry, therefore I will not waste my time doing so.
In conclusion for someone who has appointed himself in other places as the AOPA ‘gatekeeper’ and spend much time in self applause of your vast corporate and regulatory experience you clearly see as desperately needed in AOPA, let’s hear again why you will not nominate for the board, beyond that you can’t afford the time or expense.
Neither can I nor any of the others who are, like me, volunteers How about you give them the respect they deserve just for that.
How about you also tell your mates that their behaviour has been and is totally unacceptable in any civilized community, more especially towards their fellow volunteers who have been voted on to the same board on which they sit, by the very same members.
Or has it all been done “in the interests of the members”, funny most were all either not voted on or voted last in the ballot.
Vote for whom you wish. 6,000 ex members can't be wrong
Bob Murphie I can see you are going to be a fun and constructive member of the board.
brianh
Let's get personal then shall we and deal with the sophist claptrap disguised as intellectually rigourous debate. B&gger I think I just committed a tautology.
Your despicable (thanks Creamie) invocation of Joe Goebbels and others of his ilk, has been very much abused by the intellectually bankrupt and lazy as a throw away line to attempt to win cheap points.
But then why would I be surprised, your mates are masters at the self serving propaganda which they hope would drive the AOPA members on to the CASA and Government guns, but I do not think they are anywhere near as clever as old Joe, nor the 6,000 odd ex AOPA members were.
AOPA IMHO has been a laughing stock in the places that count in this country for at least the last decade and the 6,000 plus ex members seem to agree with me.
Suing AOPA US, cost = $250,000 that we know of, benefit = 0 that I can find.
Suing CASA or whatever they were called then = cost unknown = benefit =<<0
Spending over $30,000 on brochures for an 2002 Aviation Expo that were not distributed and the stall not attended by any members or the Directors responsible and don’t even make good pulp for recycling.
The sexing up of the accounts (yup the old prepaid issue again) some years ago to make them look better than they really were in the face of a rapidly declining membership.
Expecting those that are called, publicly, “bastards”, “the enemy”, you’ve heard it all before, to then deal with you in a constructive manner.
My famous next door neighbour psychiatrist describes one measure of insanity as “continuing to do the same things in the expectation of a obtaining different result”, but I digress.
To dispose of your truly Goebbelian
rhetoric, you have attempted to disguise as serious questions ??
Since a Board which had your mates on it has already passed a vote of No Confidence in you, how do you suggest your being elected offers any future benefit to either the AOPA Board or those who vote for you, as the new Board post AGM is unlikely to be any more receptive to you???
It is NOT the AOPA boards’ role to choose to be or not to be receptive of me or anyone else elected by the members.
A Director is elected by the members on the merits of his views, background and experience, to represent them on their behalf. They voted for him/her, to the Board, for that purpose, NOT whether is he does or does not sing the party song and you have the impertinence to invoke Goebbels.
My views have been well know waaay before my election, they have not changed and my actions have always on concert with them.
In other words how otherwise are the members to effect change if that is their wish.
I do not recall signing an agreement that required me to act and vote according to anyone else’s fantasies.
What do you think is the motivation for the many separate attacks on you. At present you are scoring even more than Bill Hamilton did at the last election. The only thing left to call on seems to be the "tall poppy syndrome" which a few others outside Aviation have used lately.
There’s been lots of the usual huff, puff, thunder and lightning, smoke and mirrors that the 6,000 odd ex members have come to accept as the usual modus operandi bandied about but so far and as usual no actual substance.
I have been in and out and have not read your recent posts at length. Is there any mention in them of any rumour or possibility of a CASA job offer to an AOPA Board Member at the same time as the Strict Liability sellout.
Promote a populist conspiracy theory, add a couple of cups of half truth and innuendo, a cwt or two of demonizing, mix thoroughly and bingo, Kristallnacht or AOPAnacht if you wish. Hell let's get into some bookburning whilst we are at it.
Let’s just kill the rumour and innuendo first shall we.
Fact: The Director to whom you would allude is none other than myself.
Fact: The position was NOT advertised and I did NOT apply, a small number identified by the exec search company (a highly respected one at that) as having the potential to fill the position, were invited to discuss the position with them. I believe no more than 6 people agreed to engage for what was seen by many as a poisoned chalice.
We were promised strict confidentiality and a quick result.
The successful candidate with whom they wished to continue further negotiations was identified by them very quickly, the final announcement was kept secret and was dependant on the passing of the enabling legislation and the successful agreement on the terms and conditions.
Bruce Byron was always going to be the man if they could entice him on board. He and Bruce Gemmel will make a formidable team.
Fact: Strict confidentiality required that I limit the knowledge to all but the absolute minimum. I advised the Pres and VP, both lawyers and of course my immediate family, who were not by the way, enthralled at the prospect. I should not have to draw you a picture of the extent to which it would have remained confidential should I have informed the board at large.
Stupid I am not and most reasonable persons would agree, a pair of lawyers would have been capable of resolving any potential conflicts.
How one of your AGACF mates got on to it and published it here, is a mystery that perhaps you are able to solve. I have my own theories, which shall remain mine, I know whom I told and whom I did not.
Fact: It was all over bar the shouting I think in the first week of Sept, well before the Notice of Motion was even lodged or discussed if my memory serves me correctly.
You should also be careful when you link the words Strict Liability, “sellout” and the above. Alluding to, in this context is the same as actually saying it.
Finally on the particular matter of SL, apart from a bunch of the aforesaid “huff ‘n puff and thunder and lightning”, would you please point me to the “hundreds” of CASA regs that were NOT already or would be deemed by the courts as SL and what harsher enforcement measures are now available to CASA, that were not already and that are not softer options than previously available.
I didn’t invent SL anymore than I personally visited it exclusively on the aviation community.
If you have a problem with that, you might take it up with the Government of the day not the individual regulators as it is they, the Govt., who make the running on the law as policy and in the legislature.
Go and read carefully what I and Creampuff and those much cleverer and more highly qualified in the law, have provided for your education.
There WAS a board majority on the issue, I do not intend to make public the internal communication on it.
Please explain to me the difference between a “bare” majority and a majority, or to make it simple for you, when is a majority not a majority.
The subsequent treachery and reasons for it, I will not discuss publicly.
The majority of the board TWICE refused Pagani’s subsequent demands resulting in her resignation, beyond that I will say no more, it’s on the record.
If you do not have the wit to understand the way it really works, I cannot debate this issue with you any further, if all that is at stake is political mileage.
In which case AOPA will continue to be an irrelevancy.
Can you list, without rhetoric, what you personally have achieved for GA and AOPA members while o]n (sic) the AOPA Board.
By the mien you have demonstrated here, you are clearly not interested in the actual answer other than as an opportunity for more sophistry, therefore I will not waste my time doing so.
In conclusion for someone who has appointed himself in other places as the AOPA ‘gatekeeper’ and spend much time in self applause of your vast corporate and regulatory experience you clearly see as desperately needed in AOPA, let’s hear again why you will not nominate for the board, beyond that you can’t afford the time or expense.
Neither can I nor any of the others who are, like me, volunteers How about you give them the respect they deserve just for that.
How about you also tell your mates that their behaviour has been and is totally unacceptable in any civilized community, more especially towards their fellow volunteers who have been voted on to the same board on which they sit, by the very same members.
Or has it all been done “in the interests of the members”, funny most were all either not voted on or voted last in the ballot.
Vote for whom you wish. 6,000 ex members can't be wrong
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Warning: NO POLITCAL STATEMENTS BELOW
All AOPA members that have not provided an email address to the office will have received or will be receiving in the next few days notification of the change of venue and the agenda of the AGM. Those members who have provided an email address to the AOPA office should have already received their notification via email.
The letter also states that those who do not have the internet can call the office to get a hardcopy of any document if they want.
The financial reports are not ready yet but there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to have them ready.
On the issue of keeping AOPA members in the dark: It takes a lot of effort to do a mail out to the members. I can assure you that all office staff and a few volunteers (namely my brother, cousin and Julie's, our bookkeeper, kids) were working non-stop to print, fold and insert letters for our members to get the details they need.
And finally there has been no notification of withdrawal of any nominees from the 2004 ballot.
If any AOPA members require any further information please call 02 9791 9099 or if any non-members or ex-members wish to join please call the number above as well.
All AOPA members that have not provided an email address to the office will have received or will be receiving in the next few days notification of the change of venue and the agenda of the AGM. Those members who have provided an email address to the AOPA office should have already received their notification via email.
The letter also states that those who do not have the internet can call the office to get a hardcopy of any document if they want.
The financial reports are not ready yet but there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to have them ready.
On the issue of keeping AOPA members in the dark: It takes a lot of effort to do a mail out to the members. I can assure you that all office staff and a few volunteers (namely my brother, cousin and Julie's, our bookkeeper, kids) were working non-stop to print, fold and insert letters for our members to get the details they need.
And finally there has been no notification of withdrawal of any nominees from the 2004 ballot.
If any AOPA members require any further information please call 02 9791 9099 or if any non-members or ex-members wish to join please call the number above as well.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Thanks hugely, Dan, Julie, Kylie, Jill, brothers, sisters, cousins and all the kids in the AOPA family. 
We tried very very hard in an impossible situation.
You and the staff are absolute heroes for keeping an even strain and commitment to AOPA and it's members throughout the recent and current turmoils.
Believe me your welfare and future weighed heavily in our thinking and remains so on our consciences.
We sincerely hope that it will all turn out for the best, despite the efforts of others.
I hope I have the distinct pleasure of seeing you all again on the 22nd.
We tried very very hard in an impossible situation.
You and the staff are absolute heroes for keeping an even strain and commitment to AOPA and it's members throughout the recent and current turmoils.
Believe me your welfare and future weighed heavily in our thinking and remains so on our consciences.
We sincerely hope that it will all turn out for the best, despite the efforts of others.
I hope I have the distinct pleasure of seeing you all again on the 22nd.
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At the last election I said I would not vote for Gaunty, as his posts on PPrune indicated that he had a very negative attitude towards G.A. I wondered why he was trying to get elected to the board of an organisation, when he appeared to oppose the principles it stood for. The "invitation" to an interview for the CASA job may explain his motivation. Strangely, the chaos of the last election seems to be happening again. It is now May 3rd, and I have not yet recieved my magazine, or ballot paper for voting which closes on the 7th, May, 2000km away from here. Looks like I will not vote for Gaunty again, but I hope I can vote for others. I wonder how this happened.
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bushy
As is your right.
I am amazed that you think that I have the power of divining the future, Mick Toller's surprise resignation didn't occur until Sept last year, somehow I was supposed to know this nearlty nine months prior.
It may also surprise you to know that I would have been invited whether I was an AOPA director or not, my GA backgound goes way beyond AOPA.
The fact that I was involved with AOPA, was more a complication, than a benefit to both parties and was the main subject of the early discusions.
In so far as your perception that I am "negative" towards GA, I understand why you may think so.
I have spent most of my working life in the GA industry which was very good to me and educated my three children through the best private schools and University as well as providing a very confortable lifestyle thank you.
I have been a standard setter in the industry, able to keep revenue rates at an seriously economic level. The last organisation I was responsible for made a profit of well over $1,000,000 with revenue rates 40-60% higher than the so called "industry" norm.
I am sure you would be delighted were you able to charge say $175 per person for your 1/2 hour the round the houses.
It is the people in the industry, fortunately getting fewer by the minute as their creditors close in on them, who think the only way of either expanding their businesses or predating other operators business is by underquoting, that I am and will continue to remain negative about.
They have done much damage maybe even unwittingly, but damage nonetheless. It will take some time, persisitance and determination to restore the balance
Most of those operators might think they have a business, but in reality it is just a paid hobby.
There is no difference neither is there any mystery between running an aviation or any other business.
Certainly costs need to be contained and we must always be vigilant on it, but in and of itself it will not make you more profitable, that is a function of your revenue over costs equation and your marketing plan.
I had planned and intend to carry it forward to bring the US industry wide www.beapilot.com programme to Australia.
Go have a look.
It has been hugely succesful in rebuilding the US industry and restoring value, therefore revenue to the product.
That is where AOPA needs to be refocusing their efforts not shouting at the regulator and Government.
It is a fact in any regulated industry, that when the correct revenues are being charged for the value of service being rendered the regulatory compliance costs are not an issue.
If the only way you can make a profit is not to pay the compliance costs or even reduce them by 50%, the hard unvarnished facts are that you don't have a business, just a hobby that is partly paid for.
If to you that is a negative view, then sobeit.
Next time I come your way I'll let you know and I'd be happy over a beer to tell how I tackled it.
If you are running out of time on the vote email Daniel he'll email back a form and you can fax it back to the returning officer.
Vote for me or not, please vote, AOPA's very life depends on it.
As is your right.
I am amazed that you think that I have the power of divining the future, Mick Toller's surprise resignation didn't occur until Sept last year, somehow I was supposed to know this nearlty nine months prior.
It may also surprise you to know that I would have been invited whether I was an AOPA director or not, my GA backgound goes way beyond AOPA.
The fact that I was involved with AOPA, was more a complication, than a benefit to both parties and was the main subject of the early discusions.
In so far as your perception that I am "negative" towards GA, I understand why you may think so.
I have spent most of my working life in the GA industry which was very good to me and educated my three children through the best private schools and University as well as providing a very confortable lifestyle thank you.
I have been a standard setter in the industry, able to keep revenue rates at an seriously economic level. The last organisation I was responsible for made a profit of well over $1,000,000 with revenue rates 40-60% higher than the so called "industry" norm.
I am sure you would be delighted were you able to charge say $175 per person for your 1/2 hour the round the houses.
It is the people in the industry, fortunately getting fewer by the minute as their creditors close in on them, who think the only way of either expanding their businesses or predating other operators business is by underquoting, that I am and will continue to remain negative about.
They have done much damage maybe even unwittingly, but damage nonetheless. It will take some time, persisitance and determination to restore the balance
Most of those operators might think they have a business, but in reality it is just a paid hobby.
There is no difference neither is there any mystery between running an aviation or any other business.
Certainly costs need to be contained and we must always be vigilant on it, but in and of itself it will not make you more profitable, that is a function of your revenue over costs equation and your marketing plan.
I had planned and intend to carry it forward to bring the US industry wide www.beapilot.com programme to Australia.
Go have a look.
It has been hugely succesful in rebuilding the US industry and restoring value, therefore revenue to the product.
That is where AOPA needs to be refocusing their efforts not shouting at the regulator and Government.
It is a fact in any regulated industry, that when the correct revenues are being charged for the value of service being rendered the regulatory compliance costs are not an issue.
If the only way you can make a profit is not to pay the compliance costs or even reduce them by 50%, the hard unvarnished facts are that you don't have a business, just a hobby that is partly paid for.
If to you that is a negative view, then sobeit.
Next time I come your way I'll let you know and I'd be happy over a beer to tell how I tackled it.
If you are running out of time on the vote email Daniel he'll email back a form and you can fax it back to the returning officer.
Vote for me or not, please vote, AOPA's very life depends on it.
Last edited by gaunty; 3rd May 2004 at 08:31.
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Gaunty
Why did you not apply your financial magic to AOPA??? What I read suggests that the opposite seemed to happen.
Much of the damage to GA has been caused by aeroplane sales people, and flying schools. We have lots of angry young pilots at the moment who have paid lots of money, and cannot get a flying job. It has been that way for decades.
What we need is more LAMES, and more honest people. Despite "superior management" AOPA seems to be in choas.
I will vote.
Why did you not apply your financial magic to AOPA??? What I read suggests that the opposite seemed to happen.
Much of the damage to GA has been caused by aeroplane sales people, and flying schools. We have lots of angry young pilots at the moment who have paid lots of money, and cannot get a flying job. It has been that way for decades.
What we need is more LAMES, and more honest people. Despite "superior management" AOPA seems to be in choas.
I will vote.
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I had planned and intend to carry it forward to bring the US industry wide www.beapilot.com programme to Australia.
I emailed the AOPA after last elections when I rejoined, suggesting sites emulating this and the http://www.gaservingamerica.com/ website.
http://www.beapilot.com.au has now been registered by someone else and still nothing has happened?
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Bushy
I am not trying to shoot you down but I disagree.
Can you justify your assertion that "most of the damage to GA has been done by Aeroplane sales people and flying schools"?
I have no facts or figures but I think it is an over-simplification. There is a market out there for aeroplanes and there is a market for pilot training; if the adage that "a fool and his money are soon parted" is a recipie for business disaster then the home improvment industry must be in serious decline too.
I have only been in GA 10 years or so but in that time the most destructive people I have seen have been enthusiastic amatuers making their "hobby" into a poorly paid job with no regard to normal business practice. This includes the young men and women who want to be pilots, are warned of the risk of not meeting their career targets but take the risk regardless. Many of them achieve their goals, and good on them.
I personally think these people - the hobbyist-cum-expert - are the source of the bitter & twisted young pilots out there - but that is another argument. They would also seem to be a source of much of the opinionated invective on "the other forum", and the malaise in the AOPA board as presently constituted. And one of them has caused more than a modicum of fuss when recently implementing his pet airspace system.
I can't help thinking Gaunty's assessment of AOPA's and GA's malaise is correct - like the posts from Creampuff about Strict Liability, you should read it again and try to understand.
regards
PS: Do you want mor LAMEs or more honest people? Can't have both!
I am not trying to shoot you down but I disagree.
Can you justify your assertion that "most of the damage to GA has been done by Aeroplane sales people and flying schools"?
I have no facts or figures but I think it is an over-simplification. There is a market out there for aeroplanes and there is a market for pilot training; if the adage that "a fool and his money are soon parted" is a recipie for business disaster then the home improvment industry must be in serious decline too.
I have only been in GA 10 years or so but in that time the most destructive people I have seen have been enthusiastic amatuers making their "hobby" into a poorly paid job with no regard to normal business practice. This includes the young men and women who want to be pilots, are warned of the risk of not meeting their career targets but take the risk regardless. Many of them achieve their goals, and good on them.
I personally think these people - the hobbyist-cum-expert - are the source of the bitter & twisted young pilots out there - but that is another argument. They would also seem to be a source of much of the opinionated invective on "the other forum", and the malaise in the AOPA board as presently constituted. And one of them has caused more than a modicum of fuss when recently implementing his pet airspace system.
I can't help thinking Gaunty's assessment of AOPA's and GA's malaise is correct - like the posts from Creampuff about Strict Liability, you should read it again and try to understand.
regards
PS: Do you want mor LAMEs or more honest people? Can't have both!
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Scandal
No financials and its 2 weeks before the AGM.
Not legal, not ethical.
What is going on? How long does it take to sex up the accounts ? Why no explanation. Members are being treated with utter contempt.
The AGM will have to be adjourned since the Committee has not met the requirements of the Corporations Law. I urge all members to make contact with ASIC and make a complaint.
Lousy governance, inept management.
The clowns running AOPA need to be removed and we need to start again with competent members.
Not legal, not ethical.
What is going on? How long does it take to sex up the accounts ? Why no explanation. Members are being treated with utter contempt.
The AGM will have to be adjourned since the Committee has not met the requirements of the Corporations Law. I urge all members to make contact with ASIC and make a complaint.
Lousy governance, inept management.
The clowns running AOPA need to be removed and we need to start again with competent members.
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Creamy
My apology for not replying earlier, I have been enjoying the clear air over lake Eyre far away from the opposite airings on this forum.
First, I unreservedly deny (but nevertheless out of fairness withdraw) any attempt on my part to link Gary to a war criminal. My knowledge of Goebbels is that he achieved fame as a Minister for Propaganda with unbelievable skill in mixing truth and fiction and leaving out the truthful negatives - not as a war criminal. That was the analogy I was trying to draw.
Insofar as your spirited defence of the strict liability is concerned, I as a pilot and AOPA member don't care WHAT was the situation in the past. AOPA had a politician ready to go to bat for a positive change. Two things happened thanks to Gary's intervention. First, the situation did not change for the positive. Second, and worse, a certain politician will be very unlikely to come to the aid of AOPA again in a hurry.
We all have our biases. Mine is success for AOPA and GA. I don't know yours but from reading your posts I detect a strong pro-CASA bias therefore I suspect you and I are going to see both AOPA issues and Gary's actions with different benchmarks. There is nothing in the CASA charter requiring it to help GA achieve success and anyone who reads Paul Phelan's articles would often find that gap unsurprising.
Gary
I have read your reply. I need to spend some time offline stripping out the personal attacks on me and the rhetoric before considering whether it is worth replying. But I say again that I still cannot comprehend how you can offer successful representation to anyone who votes for you when you have a board that has a no confidence vote in you.
And, just to counter your little dip about me not standing for election, you left out - see my note above to Creamy about selective propaganda - the other half of what I have previously posted. Let me restate it. I am a self-funded retiree with limited income. I do not have the income to live and fund AOPA directorship expenses. But, I will NOT take money from AOPA to fund those expenses at a time when AOPA cannot afford it.
And, on that note, Directors expenses this year to 31/3/04 without further comment (available to AOPA members from the office).
Pagani 13050
Gaunt 7994
Kennedy 0
All others 11232
Total 32276
I'll just remain meek and broke in the hope of inheriting the earth!
cheers
My apology for not replying earlier, I have been enjoying the clear air over lake Eyre far away from the opposite airings on this forum.
First, I unreservedly deny (but nevertheless out of fairness withdraw) any attempt on my part to link Gary to a war criminal. My knowledge of Goebbels is that he achieved fame as a Minister for Propaganda with unbelievable skill in mixing truth and fiction and leaving out the truthful negatives - not as a war criminal. That was the analogy I was trying to draw.
Insofar as your spirited defence of the strict liability is concerned, I as a pilot and AOPA member don't care WHAT was the situation in the past. AOPA had a politician ready to go to bat for a positive change. Two things happened thanks to Gary's intervention. First, the situation did not change for the positive. Second, and worse, a certain politician will be very unlikely to come to the aid of AOPA again in a hurry.
We all have our biases. Mine is success for AOPA and GA. I don't know yours but from reading your posts I detect a strong pro-CASA bias therefore I suspect you and I are going to see both AOPA issues and Gary's actions with different benchmarks. There is nothing in the CASA charter requiring it to help GA achieve success and anyone who reads Paul Phelan's articles would often find that gap unsurprising.
Gary
I have read your reply. I need to spend some time offline stripping out the personal attacks on me and the rhetoric before considering whether it is worth replying. But I say again that I still cannot comprehend how you can offer successful representation to anyone who votes for you when you have a board that has a no confidence vote in you.
And, just to counter your little dip about me not standing for election, you left out - see my note above to Creamy about selective propaganda - the other half of what I have previously posted. Let me restate it. I am a self-funded retiree with limited income. I do not have the income to live and fund AOPA directorship expenses. But, I will NOT take money from AOPA to fund those expenses at a time when AOPA cannot afford it.
And, on that note, Directors expenses this year to 31/3/04 without further comment (available to AOPA members from the office).
Pagani 13050
Gaunt 7994
Kennedy 0
All others 11232
Total 32276
I'll just remain meek and broke in the hope of inheriting the earth!
cheers
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brianh
Really! And Goebbels wasn't a War criminal. Really!
You really seem to have a problem with English comprehension. Yeah right.!
sounds like someone I know.
Withdraw away, you are much too careful with the construction of your posts. You really think you can get away with it. Personally I don't care one tittle, I have been called worse by AOPA board members.
Strip away.
Personally I don't care, (go for it) and neither do I suspect most of us around here, for your sophist Bulls hit.
Ask your mates why, after screaming censorship when the AOPA Forum was closed because of the highly defamatory content and the cross posting of "members only" discussions, "in the interests of members of course" disguised with the usual declamatory "electoral comment", has not been reeopened by them.
Moderator too busy, my @rse, if your mates behaved with the merest skerrick of civility, it would not need much moderating, but I see one of them is now on the board so why am I not surprised.
Too hard again my @rse it takes as long to open it as it does to close it.
Personally I don't care one way ot the others, I think the members have got the drift and for those who haven't then I can't help them.
Publish away, I don't care, those whose votes will make any difference are quite capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff.
You will hear no more from me.
There were only 212 odd registered AOPA Form members and suprise, surprise, almost without exception 90% of the serial posters were "golly gee" the same very small (I think of it our old friend Joe had that problem too.
)
group of people who play in the discredited AGACF Forum which only has a life by to and from cross posting from here and the AOPA Forum.
I think you still hold the record.
Members stopped coming to view there at the same time as those banned from here started publishing the same "sweetness and light" they were banned for from here.
Your precious declamation about not wishing to "take" money from AOPA takes about 1/2 a snanosecond of rational thought to dismiss it as the specious Bulls hit it is.
Monkeys and peanuts come to mind.
I won't even dignify your "heavens to betsy Batman" revelation of the "expenses" with an answer.
The last two episodes of AOPA as a dilletante millionaires playground and others who really do need to get a life, a pathetic "thunder and lightning, huff n puff" email to the AOPA board on Christmas morning for goodness sakes, should be a salutory lesson to the long suffering members.
Remember;
6,000 ex members can't be wrong
Garrylous
You must try harder if you want people here to take you seriously.
The only two posts you have made to this forum so far would have been much applauded in a conspiracy theory ridden AGACF, but then you already knew that.
And a "hotmail" account not allowed there of course is a dead giveaway.
Besides my first name is spelt with one "r".
the personal attacks on me and
You really seem to have a problem with English comprehension. Yeah right.!
Goebbels's hatred of the Jews, like his hatred of the privileged and clever, stemmed from a deep-rooted sense of inferiority and internalization of mob values; at the same time it was also opportunist and tactical, based on the need to create a common enemy, to feed popular resentment and to mobilize the masses.
Withdraw away, you are much too careful with the construction of your posts. You really think you can get away with it. Personally I don't care one tittle, I have been called worse by AOPA board members.
Strip away.
Personally I don't care, (go for it) and neither do I suspect most of us around here, for your sophist Bulls hit.
Ask your mates why, after screaming censorship when the AOPA Forum was closed because of the highly defamatory content and the cross posting of "members only" discussions, "in the interests of members of course" disguised with the usual declamatory "electoral comment", has not been reeopened by them.
Moderator too busy, my @rse, if your mates behaved with the merest skerrick of civility, it would not need much moderating, but I see one of them is now on the board so why am I not surprised.
Too hard again my @rse it takes as long to open it as it does to close it.
Personally I don't care one way ot the others, I think the members have got the drift and for those who haven't then I can't help them.
Publish away, I don't care, those whose votes will make any difference are quite capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff.
You will hear no more from me.
There were only 212 odd registered AOPA Form members and suprise, surprise, almost without exception 90% of the serial posters were "golly gee" the same very small (I think of it our old friend Joe had that problem too.
)group of people who play in the discredited AGACF Forum which only has a life by to and from cross posting from here and the AOPA Forum.
I think you still hold the record.
Members stopped coming to view there at the same time as those banned from here started publishing the same "sweetness and light" they were banned for from here.
Your precious declamation about not wishing to "take" money from AOPA takes about 1/2 a snanosecond of rational thought to dismiss it as the specious Bulls hit it is.
Monkeys and peanuts come to mind.
I won't even dignify your "heavens to betsy Batman" revelation of the "expenses" with an answer.
The last two episodes of AOPA as a dilletante millionaires playground and others who really do need to get a life, a pathetic "thunder and lightning, huff n puff" email to the AOPA board on Christmas morning for goodness sakes, should be a salutory lesson to the long suffering members.
Remember;
6,000 ex members can't be wrong
Garrylous
You must try harder if you want people here to take you seriously.
The only two posts you have made to this forum so far would have been much applauded in a conspiracy theory ridden AGACF, but then you already knew that.
And a "hotmail" account not allowed there of course is a dead giveaway.
Besides my first name is spelt with one "r".
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Gary
As a kid I loved Luna Park, fairy floss, and waffles.
Your last reply takes me back to those days. It waffles and is full of fairy floss - warm, fuzzy, and ethereal. If I could find some substance to it, I would reply, so obviously I am not replying.
You and your colleagues have been skillful in misdirecting this thread away from the real issues.
And of course you don't intend to dignify the expenses revelation with an answer. No doubt you will do that after John shows us the WMD?
Please don't, I am already sinking under the weight of your "bulls hit" on this thread. (Very clever that phrasing on your part as it beats the auto censor - and you claim I'm good with my posts - Sir, I bow to an expert).
Anyway, sorry to be slow replying. I fell off my chair laughing when YOU had a dip at Garrylous for being a fictitious poster (I had already noted from his profile that his job and quals were a bit sus!). Please, after the election can you supply a list on this thread of any aliases you have used on this and agaf - and remember, talking to yourself (even on Forums) is a first sign.
However, I do take umbrage at your comment "Your precious declamation about not wishing to "take" money from AOPA takes about 1/2 a snanosecond of rational thought to dismiss it as the specious Bulls hit it is."
Please do not apply your ethical or moral values to me. I was on standby to travel at my own expense to Sydney for the January long weekend on AOPA business. Likewise, when the departure from the sinking ship occurred recently, I offered to travel again at my own expense to Bankstown to do any hack work needed at the AOPA office. It's all on record and I would not have even mentioned it except to make the point that there are some of us out here who stand by our principles and are not prepared to take AOPA $ at a time when its funds are poor. And, because I can probably run rings around you on a debate about the accrual system (that tells the truth) versus the cash system for the state of the AOPA finances, I suggest you leave that one alone.
Because of our family values with raising the kids, I was the sole breadwinner in this family for over 30 years until my retirement, therefore I do not have the personal $ to fund an AOPA Director's commitment. I'm sure we beer drinkers do not begrudge the chardonnay set their lifestyle, but you have done youself a grave disservice in trying to have a dip at me because i have ethics. Physician, heal thyself.
Returning to Goebbels and your (and Creamy's) skilful misdirection of the thread to the Jewish solution - you obviously read different literature to me - my source was the good old Websters I have had for many years. It reads (in its entirety) "Minister for propaganda in the Hitler government of Germany, 1933-45; believed to have committed suicide with hitler in Berlin air raid shelter as Russian troops entered the city".
No mention of war crimes or the dark thoughts that seem to guide you and Creamy in diverting attention from the substance of the debate.
I'll stick by my source and the first three words it says. Any unbiased reader of this thread would agree.
Gary,
and Mr on-duty Woomera.
On reflection, I do not think it is a good thing for a person of Forum Moderator status to set an example of beating the auto censor several times in one post. I refer of course to the post of 12:11 today which used the terms "Bulls hit" and "@rse".
This is not a dip at the poster as the mirror I am holding up is undoubtedly causing some reflkected heat. I am prepared to debate matters vigorously, but preferably with a degree of savoir faire as befits the viewers sensitivities.
We surely do not want to start a campaign of creative auto-censor beating on this Forum as it will probably then move to the F and C words and lower the quality and morality of the cut and thrust of debate.
All things in moderation, so to speak?
As a kid I loved Luna Park, fairy floss, and waffles.
Your last reply takes me back to those days. It waffles and is full of fairy floss - warm, fuzzy, and ethereal. If I could find some substance to it, I would reply, so obviously I am not replying.
You and your colleagues have been skillful in misdirecting this thread away from the real issues.
And of course you don't intend to dignify the expenses revelation with an answer. No doubt you will do that after John shows us the WMD?
Please don't, I am already sinking under the weight of your "bulls hit" on this thread. (Very clever that phrasing on your part as it beats the auto censor - and you claim I'm good with my posts - Sir, I bow to an expert).
Anyway, sorry to be slow replying. I fell off my chair laughing when YOU had a dip at Garrylous for being a fictitious poster (I had already noted from his profile that his job and quals were a bit sus!). Please, after the election can you supply a list on this thread of any aliases you have used on this and agaf - and remember, talking to yourself (even on Forums) is a first sign.
However, I do take umbrage at your comment "Your precious declamation about not wishing to "take" money from AOPA takes about 1/2 a snanosecond of rational thought to dismiss it as the specious Bulls hit it is."
Please do not apply your ethical or moral values to me. I was on standby to travel at my own expense to Sydney for the January long weekend on AOPA business. Likewise, when the departure from the sinking ship occurred recently, I offered to travel again at my own expense to Bankstown to do any hack work needed at the AOPA office. It's all on record and I would not have even mentioned it except to make the point that there are some of us out here who stand by our principles and are not prepared to take AOPA $ at a time when its funds are poor. And, because I can probably run rings around you on a debate about the accrual system (that tells the truth) versus the cash system for the state of the AOPA finances, I suggest you leave that one alone.
Because of our family values with raising the kids, I was the sole breadwinner in this family for over 30 years until my retirement, therefore I do not have the personal $ to fund an AOPA Director's commitment. I'm sure we beer drinkers do not begrudge the chardonnay set their lifestyle, but you have done youself a grave disservice in trying to have a dip at me because i have ethics. Physician, heal thyself.
Returning to Goebbels and your (and Creamy's) skilful misdirection of the thread to the Jewish solution - you obviously read different literature to me - my source was the good old Websters I have had for many years. It reads (in its entirety) "Minister for propaganda in the Hitler government of Germany, 1933-45; believed to have committed suicide with hitler in Berlin air raid shelter as Russian troops entered the city".
No mention of war crimes or the dark thoughts that seem to guide you and Creamy in diverting attention from the substance of the debate.
I'll stick by my source and the first three words it says. Any unbiased reader of this thread would agree.
Gary,
and Mr on-duty Woomera.
On reflection, I do not think it is a good thing for a person of Forum Moderator status to set an example of beating the auto censor several times in one post. I refer of course to the post of 12:11 today which used the terms "Bulls hit" and "@rse".
This is not a dip at the poster as the mirror I am holding up is undoubtedly causing some reflkected heat. I am prepared to debate matters vigorously, but preferably with a degree of savoir faire as befits the viewers sensitivities.
We surely do not want to start a campaign of creative auto-censor beating on this Forum as it will probably then move to the F and C words and lower the quality and morality of the cut and thrust of debate.
All things in moderation, so to speak?
From gaunty's last post above, and Gary I'm not singling you out here, just using some of your words to illustrate a point that while the events that are going-on continue to do so, then in the eyes of the real GA community (ie those employed by it, not merely those who aviate on the odd occaision), the AOPA will continue to languish as a laughing stock of Australian aviation.
My italics.
The italics and the bolding sum up my feelings (and I have no doubt many, many others too), about what the actual professional GA industry sees in the Australian AOPA as a stand alone organisation. Sure, you have a number of CPL and ATPL holders as ordinary members, and I believe there is much good to be done (and being done) from the efforts of those focussed in the right direction, but for the most part you are seen as a "weekend PPL pilot rich boys club with too much spare time and too much to say".
From the outside.... Your organisation claims to speak for GA as a whole. This claim is unfounded, wrong and arrogant in its extreme. You do not speak for me, you do not speak for my company, my workmates, and from the feeling that I have been able to ascertain from talking to other people in the industry is that the arrogance of past few years has done you no favours with the very people who work in this industry you would need to be attracting to become members of your organisation.
Yes, I do hear much of what goes on inside your organisation, due to having a good friend (an AOPA member) mentioning the goings-on from time to time. You see, I wanted to see if the grass-roots of the animal would let the head out of its butt which has surely not seen the light of day for a long long time.....
I sat back here last year and watched a person, who is now the target of attack by what would appear from the outside to be brain dead neanderthols, say he would be doing his best to do the job if elected. Well, why didn't you let him instead of playing faction games and vetoing him (and effectively the rest of the board), by tying his hands behind his back? You, the faction I speak of are responsible in no small part for the sad state of affairs that are now transpiring..... Blame your pathetic selves, there is no-one else to.
What about the people like me and others who have looked into becoming members and have seen the bollocks that goes on, therefore deciding not to join. You never know, you might have picked-up another 6,000-odd and not lost the first 6,000. Whaderya reckon?
Yep, BLAME YOURSELVES! You'll never see my money until you've changed a great deal, and I know I don't just speak for myself.
The last two episodes of AOPA as a dilletante millionaires playground and others who really do need to get a life, a pathetic "thunder and lightning, huff n puff" email to the AOPA board on Christmas morning for goodness sakes, should be a salutory lesson to the long suffering members.
The italics and the bolding sum up my feelings (and I have no doubt many, many others too), about what the actual professional GA industry sees in the Australian AOPA as a stand alone organisation. Sure, you have a number of CPL and ATPL holders as ordinary members, and I believe there is much good to be done (and being done) from the efforts of those focussed in the right direction, but for the most part you are seen as a "weekend PPL pilot rich boys club with too much spare time and too much to say".
From the outside.... Your organisation claims to speak for GA as a whole. This claim is unfounded, wrong and arrogant in its extreme. You do not speak for me, you do not speak for my company, my workmates, and from the feeling that I have been able to ascertain from talking to other people in the industry is that the arrogance of past few years has done you no favours with the very people who work in this industry you would need to be attracting to become members of your organisation.
Yes, I do hear much of what goes on inside your organisation, due to having a good friend (an AOPA member) mentioning the goings-on from time to time. You see, I wanted to see if the grass-roots of the animal would let the head out of its butt which has surely not seen the light of day for a long long time.....
I sat back here last year and watched a person, who is now the target of attack by what would appear from the outside to be brain dead neanderthols, say he would be doing his best to do the job if elected. Well, why didn't you let him instead of playing faction games and vetoing him (and effectively the rest of the board), by tying his hands behind his back? You, the faction I speak of are responsible in no small part for the sad state of affairs that are now transpiring..... Blame your pathetic selves, there is no-one else to.
Remember;
6,000 ex members can't be wrong
6,000 ex members can't be wrong
Yep, BLAME YOURSELVES! You'll never see my money until you've changed a great deal, and I know I don't just speak for myself.
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OpsNormal
You got it in one, one of the many things for which I was vilified ("you're only interested in the big-end of town", whatever that means ? ) was suggesting that to be relevant, AOPA needed to re-engage with the professional organisations, literally get up out of the weeds and be the industry leader it was.
Or as you so aptly put it;
My compadres and I agree entirely with;
It used to and in fact I believe it was actually started by industry professionals.
Certainly AOPA US do so.
I know you guys stopped listening yonks ago.
I suspect the reason they will not engage with or encourage professional and experienced members to join, who actually know how it works, is that they would be very quickly defrocked, their "huff 'n puffer" taken away and lose their own personal soapbox.
Last I heard, there were moves being discussed, I believe, to contract the "member services" even further, to move to the back of a Directors demountable, go to a newsletter format, ban directors from out of Sydney (kidding? not really, one suggested that WA, NT and SA could not support or justify on a membership basis their own Director, let alone VPs and Pres's ), and other really member satisfying moves.
And they still expect Canberra to take them seriously.
I see brianh is still in sophist mode..
Remember;
6,000 ex members can't be wrong
nor the as you put it the 6,000 others who didn't join
You got it in one, one of the many things for which I was vilified ("you're only interested in the big-end of town", whatever that means ? ) was suggesting that to be relevant, AOPA needed to re-engage with the professional organisations, literally get up out of the weeds and be the industry leader it was.
Or as you so aptly put it;
I wanted to see if the grass-roots of the animal would let the head out of its butt which has surely not seen the light of day for a long long time.....
My compadres and I agree entirely with;
From the outside.... Your organisation claims to speak for GA as a whole. This claim is unfounded, wrong and arrogant in its extreme. You do not speak for me, you do not speak for my company, my workmates, and from the feeling that I have been able to ascertain from talking to other people in the industry is that the arrogance of past few years has done you no favours with the very people who work in this industry you would need to be attracting to become members of your organisation.
Certainly AOPA US do so.
I know you guys stopped listening yonks ago.
I suspect the reason they will not engage with or encourage professional and experienced members to join, who actually know how it works, is that they would be very quickly defrocked, their "huff 'n puffer" taken away and lose their own personal soapbox.
Last I heard, there were moves being discussed, I believe, to contract the "member services" even further, to move to the back of a Directors demountable, go to a newsletter format, ban directors from out of Sydney (kidding? not really, one suggested that WA, NT and SA could not support or justify on a membership basis their own Director, let alone VPs and Pres's ), and other really member satisfying moves.
And they still expect Canberra to take them seriously.
I see brianh is still in sophist mode..
Remember;
6,000 ex members can't be wrong
nor the as you put it the 6,000 others who didn't join
Last edited by gaunty; 4th May 2004 at 04:37.
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Gary
OK, you finally forced me back to that good old Websters to check the definitions of "sophist' as you keep using it.
It is an old, old, Websters - a gift from my father. He and I were not much into the greek classics, but I see he has written a quote from Oscar Wilde beneath the "sophist" definition - "Questions are never indiscreet, sometimes answers are".
A wise man my father, just turned 90 in April. I deduce from that quote that he suggests it is best to lay low and say nothing if giving answers could be to one's detriment. I would pass that advice on to you, but note you are already conforming.
As an aside, was that a dip you were having at me about an email Christmas morning to Board members? The only email I remember was one suggesting that time was a wasting and we get AOPA members writing to their MPs about the sneak attack by the Government and DOTARS over the proposed 2 yearly licence and $200 security fee. I also offered to knock up a 'standard" letter as a basis for members to approach their MPs.
If it is me you are dipping at, and given you were on the Board at that time and a 2 yearly licence and fee is all that is needed to have many low annual time GA people finally give it away, perhaps I'll put up the timeframe of events BEFORE AOPA did swing into action?
Hang on, let me answer for you - "It's brianh being sophist again".
OK, you finally forced me back to that good old Websters to check the definitions of "sophist' as you keep using it.
It is an old, old, Websters - a gift from my father. He and I were not much into the greek classics, but I see he has written a quote from Oscar Wilde beneath the "sophist" definition - "Questions are never indiscreet, sometimes answers are".
A wise man my father, just turned 90 in April. I deduce from that quote that he suggests it is best to lay low and say nothing if giving answers could be to one's detriment. I would pass that advice on to you, but note you are already conforming.
As an aside, was that a dip you were having at me about an email Christmas morning to Board members? The only email I remember was one suggesting that time was a wasting and we get AOPA members writing to their MPs about the sneak attack by the Government and DOTARS over the proposed 2 yearly licence and $200 security fee. I also offered to knock up a 'standard" letter as a basis for members to approach their MPs.
If it is me you are dipping at, and given you were on the Board at that time and a 2 yearly licence and fee is all that is needed to have many low annual time GA people finally give it away, perhaps I'll put up the timeframe of events BEFORE AOPA did swing into action?
Hang on, let me answer for you - "It's brianh being sophist again".
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Does the following answer any questions about plans for the future that can address some of these issues?
This is a concept model only, which hopefully the members will agree to give 12 months to consider during a consultative period. It should also give the organisation back to the grass roots membership who are as discouraged as some here on Pprune.
It addresses the "missing 6000" and;
It is part of my election platform.
State Chapters and Sub-Chapters.
“AOPA Board” is the AOPA Board made up of State Chapter Presidents and two AOPA members at large appointed by the State Chapter Presidents.
“AOPA Office” is the office located as the AOPA Board decides from time to time, where the minutes of the AOPA Board are kept and AOPA employees maintain the AOPA membership records. .
“State Chapter” means the Chapter established to represent a given area even if more than one state or territory.
“NSW Chapter” means the sub chapters located in NSW and the ACT
“South East Chapter” means the sub chapters in Victoria and Tasmania
“Central Australia Chapter” means the sub chapters in South Australia and the Northern Territory.
“Queensland Chapter” means the sub chapters in QLD.
“Western Australia Chapter” means the sub chapters in Western Australia
“Sub-Chapter” means any AOPA affiliate club or other organisation with at least 40 members, but they must have at least 75% of their membership as financial members of AOPA as on the 5th February and the 5th August each year, failing which a sub chapter may not vote in their State Chapter.
There are 5 state chapters
There are how every many sub chapters that might exist in each state chapter
The sub chapters vote one of their members to be their representative on their state chapter.
State Chapter meetings can be by phone.
A State Chapter will appoint a President and Vice President of the State Chapter to hold their position’s for no longer than 3 consecutive years.
Each State Chapter President is a member of the AOPA Board.
A decision of the AOPA Board is binding on State Chapters
A State Chapter will be incorporated and raise funds from their Sub Chapters as they see fit.
The AOPA office will collect AOPA membership subscriptions.
The AOPA Board is made up of the State Chapter Presidents and two AOPA members at large appointed by the Presidents of the State Chapters for a term of two years.
An AOPA Board meeting quorum is 4 representatives of State Chapters, be they the President, Vice President or other person appointed by a State Chapter for that meeting, and one Member at large or a substitute member at large if neither member at large is able to attend a particular meeting. The State Chapter Presidents scheduled to attend that particular Board meeting appoint that substituted member at large and that appointed is for that meeting or adjournment thereof only.
A member of AOPA need not be a member of a sub chapter, however only members of sub chapters can vote to appoint a representative on their state chapter.
Unless changed by a state chapter, a state President remains on the AOPA Board for two years, After the first AOPA Board meeting three state presidents will be required to stand down in twelve months and be available for re-election on that occasion only. ( a draw from a hat will decide which state presidents stand down after the first 12 months)
Those state presidents that were not required to stand down at the end of the first 12 months, will do so every two years.
One member at large of the AOPA Board shall stand down at the end on the first 12 months and be available for reappointment on that occasion only; thence one member at large shall stand down every two years. (A flip of a coin will decide which member at large will stand down at the end of the first twelve months).
Constructive input always welcome.
This is a concept model only, which hopefully the members will agree to give 12 months to consider during a consultative period. It should also give the organisation back to the grass roots membership who are as discouraged as some here on Pprune.
It addresses the "missing 6000" and;
It is part of my election platform.
State Chapters and Sub-Chapters.
“AOPA Board” is the AOPA Board made up of State Chapter Presidents and two AOPA members at large appointed by the State Chapter Presidents.
“AOPA Office” is the office located as the AOPA Board decides from time to time, where the minutes of the AOPA Board are kept and AOPA employees maintain the AOPA membership records. .
“State Chapter” means the Chapter established to represent a given area even if more than one state or territory.
“NSW Chapter” means the sub chapters located in NSW and the ACT
“South East Chapter” means the sub chapters in Victoria and Tasmania
“Central Australia Chapter” means the sub chapters in South Australia and the Northern Territory.
“Queensland Chapter” means the sub chapters in QLD.
“Western Australia Chapter” means the sub chapters in Western Australia
“Sub-Chapter” means any AOPA affiliate club or other organisation with at least 40 members, but they must have at least 75% of their membership as financial members of AOPA as on the 5th February and the 5th August each year, failing which a sub chapter may not vote in their State Chapter.
There are 5 state chapters
There are how every many sub chapters that might exist in each state chapter
The sub chapters vote one of their members to be their representative on their state chapter.
State Chapter meetings can be by phone.
A State Chapter will appoint a President and Vice President of the State Chapter to hold their position’s for no longer than 3 consecutive years.
Each State Chapter President is a member of the AOPA Board.
A decision of the AOPA Board is binding on State Chapters
A State Chapter will be incorporated and raise funds from their Sub Chapters as they see fit.
The AOPA office will collect AOPA membership subscriptions.
The AOPA Board is made up of the State Chapter Presidents and two AOPA members at large appointed by the Presidents of the State Chapters for a term of two years.
An AOPA Board meeting quorum is 4 representatives of State Chapters, be they the President, Vice President or other person appointed by a State Chapter for that meeting, and one Member at large or a substitute member at large if neither member at large is able to attend a particular meeting. The State Chapter Presidents scheduled to attend that particular Board meeting appoint that substituted member at large and that appointed is for that meeting or adjournment thereof only.
A member of AOPA need not be a member of a sub chapter, however only members of sub chapters can vote to appoint a representative on their state chapter.
Unless changed by a state chapter, a state President remains on the AOPA Board for two years, After the first AOPA Board meeting three state presidents will be required to stand down in twelve months and be available for re-election on that occasion only. ( a draw from a hat will decide which state presidents stand down after the first 12 months)
Those state presidents that were not required to stand down at the end of the first 12 months, will do so every two years.
One member at large of the AOPA Board shall stand down at the end on the first 12 months and be available for reappointment on that occasion only; thence one member at large shall stand down every two years. (A flip of a coin will decide which member at large will stand down at the end of the first twelve months).
Constructive input always welcome.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dunnunda & Godzone
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The title of this thread - "AOPA - 4 Directors resign" - would do Baghdad Bob or Joe Goebels proud!
It should be titled "Let's Bag Gaunty" from the content of most posts for the past six pages!
The thread has remained open solely due to the fact there have been some objective, rational, factual posts, to which the detractors and whingers have failed to respond.
I'm tired of reading a plethora of unsubstantiated personal attacks - many of which, under normal circumstances, should have been removed or moderated under the PPRuNe rules.
Gaunty has explained his position. Bob Murphie has posted an election platform. Doug Stott, Bendo, Creampuff, Ops Normal and others have rationally posted their opinions on Membership and the AOPA woes over the past decade or so.
brianh, movingforward, Garrylous et al and others: If you wish to remain part of this debate, the personal attacks - which contribute nothing to the debate - are to cease.
Either the thread returns to the thread topic with more positive posts and no further personal attacks, or the big lock will be applied.
Woomera
P.S. If this post follows the normal course of events, it will be found within 24 hours, "cut and post" on another aviation forum under the title "PPRuNe Censorship Again!"
It should be titled "Let's Bag Gaunty" from the content of most posts for the past six pages!
The thread has remained open solely due to the fact there have been some objective, rational, factual posts, to which the detractors and whingers have failed to respond.
I'm tired of reading a plethora of unsubstantiated personal attacks - many of which, under normal circumstances, should have been removed or moderated under the PPRuNe rules.
Gaunty has explained his position. Bob Murphie has posted an election platform. Doug Stott, Bendo, Creampuff, Ops Normal and others have rationally posted their opinions on Membership and the AOPA woes over the past decade or so.
brianh, movingforward, Garrylous et al and others: If you wish to remain part of this debate, the personal attacks - which contribute nothing to the debate - are to cease.
Either the thread returns to the thread topic with more positive posts and no further personal attacks, or the big lock will be applied.
Woomera
P.S. If this post follows the normal course of events, it will be found within 24 hours, "cut and post" on another aviation forum under the title "PPRuNe Censorship Again!"
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Dear Mr Woomera
Mr Gaunt has offended a lot of people with his interpretations of the truth.
But as for the 4 Directors who resigned.
Mick Kennedy, with his dedication and $0 expence account will be sorely missed.
Adrienne Willimas, by her own admission, was a bit out of her depth, but contibuted. Unfortunately thinly silver plated words wooed her over. She will be missed.
Ron Lawford appeared to me to come from a different time. It seemed to me that he had a view and was not content to abide by the majority. He tried, but I don't think he suceeded.
Gary Gaunt it seems, achieved little, cost a lot, hasn't flown in over a decade and should probably stick to narrative. I hear that when he resigned, 'there was much rejoicing'.
If he is reelected it seems by a count of those with the guts to be left standing, and those vying for a place, he will not have the confidence of the Board yet again and will therefore achieve even less than last term. (If that is possible, unless one counts the resignation of AOPA's President in November).
The big question is, can a struggling AOPA afford Mr Gaunt.
I think not.
As for the 'CPLs' who feel left out, well you will be won't you. You are not members. the plumbers union represents plumbers, the electricians union represents electricians and while AOPA is the PPLs union, it will represent PPLs against the likes of the ATC Union.
Mr Gaunt has offended a lot of people with his interpretations of the truth.
But as for the 4 Directors who resigned.
Mick Kennedy, with his dedication and $0 expence account will be sorely missed.
Adrienne Willimas, by her own admission, was a bit out of her depth, but contibuted. Unfortunately thinly silver plated words wooed her over. She will be missed.
Ron Lawford appeared to me to come from a different time. It seemed to me that he had a view and was not content to abide by the majority. He tried, but I don't think he suceeded.
Gary Gaunt it seems, achieved little, cost a lot, hasn't flown in over a decade and should probably stick to narrative. I hear that when he resigned, 'there was much rejoicing'.
If he is reelected it seems by a count of those with the guts to be left standing, and those vying for a place, he will not have the confidence of the Board yet again and will therefore achieve even less than last term. (If that is possible, unless one counts the resignation of AOPA's President in November).
The big question is, can a struggling AOPA afford Mr Gaunt.
I think not.
As for the 'CPLs' who feel left out, well you will be won't you. You are not members. the plumbers union represents plumbers, the electricians union represents electricians and while AOPA is the PPLs union, it will represent PPLs against the likes of the ATC Union.