We WILL be slugged another $200 for a new CASA Licence!
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We WILL be slugged another $200 for a new CASA Licence!
Following on from Wirraway's thread about Pilots being subjected to ASIO checks , I am not so relaxed about the new checks -- I reckon we will be required to pay the $200 for a new licence.
The January/February 2004 editions of Australian Aviation (p28) and Flight Safety Australia (p59) both mention the requirement for pilots to bear the cost of new photographic licences.
The Australian Aviation article correctly quotes DOTARS Fact Sheet 6 saying that Pilots will bear the $200 cost of security checking and licence issue.
The ASIC re-issue program is a separate DOTARS initiative and is described separately in Fact Sheet 4.
These are two separate programs. One (ASIC) is a requirement by virtue of your employer wanting you to work airside, the other (licencing) is a right granted to an individual to commit aviation in any capacity, not necessarily employment related. The separate programs are probably administered by two different teams, and I for one am not so relaxed that I expect commonsense to prevail.
I fully expect that, unless someone makes a fuss, we will all get a bill for a nice shiny photo licence around June this year.
Given the time it takes for governments to set these things up (like, September 11 was how many years ago..?!) now is the time for us to ask the question. The enabling regulations would need to be in place through CASA as the licence issuer, not DOTARS as the airport security regulator.
I'll bet a month's overnight allowances that the regulations are in the pipeline right now, and I'll bet a further two month's overnight expenses that my employer won't pay for it when it comes!
And if its one thing I hate, is paying for the same job to be done twice!
The January/February 2004 editions of Australian Aviation (p28) and Flight Safety Australia (p59) both mention the requirement for pilots to bear the cost of new photographic licences.
The Australian Aviation article correctly quotes DOTARS Fact Sheet 6 saying that Pilots will bear the $200 cost of security checking and licence issue.
The ASIC re-issue program is a separate DOTARS initiative and is described separately in Fact Sheet 4.
These are two separate programs. One (ASIC) is a requirement by virtue of your employer wanting you to work airside, the other (licencing) is a right granted to an individual to commit aviation in any capacity, not necessarily employment related. The separate programs are probably administered by two different teams, and I for one am not so relaxed that I expect commonsense to prevail.
I fully expect that, unless someone makes a fuss, we will all get a bill for a nice shiny photo licence around June this year.
Given the time it takes for governments to set these things up (like, September 11 was how many years ago..?!) now is the time for us to ask the question. The enabling regulations would need to be in place through CASA as the licence issuer, not DOTARS as the airport security regulator.
I'll bet a month's overnight allowances that the regulations are in the pipeline right now, and I'll bet a further two month's overnight expenses that my employer won't pay for it when it comes!
And if its one thing I hate, is paying for the same job to be done twice!
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This will be the FOURTH licence I have to fork out for. Not to mention that STUPID green book which cost $10... and is now going to be useless (even more so!)
Q: ... why can't the background check/Fed Police check used for ASIC card also be used for new licence?
Q: ... what happens if we DON'T rush out and pay for a new licence ? I mean my current licence is "perpetually valid". Surely when something is valid "perpetually", then it can never be INVALID.. even if superceded?
Q: ... WHY do we have to pay a $50 bond for ASIC cards ? (my employer is making pilots pay, but saying that htey will cover the other cost [129]) ... very big of SACL considering that I have only had the card for 4 months,.... and now it is to be cancelled and reissued at extra charge.
Time to renegotiate our EBA methinks! ... mind you, I cannot recall ANYWHERE in the award where it says "pilots shall pay for ASIC cards" .
Q: ... why can't the background check/Fed Police check used for ASIC card also be used for new licence?
Q: ... what happens if we DON'T rush out and pay for a new licence ? I mean my current licence is "perpetually valid". Surely when something is valid "perpetually", then it can never be INVALID.. even if superceded?
Q: ... WHY do we have to pay a $50 bond for ASIC cards ? (my employer is making pilots pay, but saying that htey will cover the other cost [129]) ... very big of SACL considering that I have only had the card for 4 months,.... and now it is to be cancelled and reissued at extra charge.
Time to renegotiate our EBA methinks! ... mind you, I cannot recall ANYWHERE in the award where it says "pilots shall pay for ASIC cards" .
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we need to stop this rubbish right now!!!!!!
this is a small wedge. if we let this go on, where will it stop?, we will be paying for our licence every year at a START OUT RATE of $100.00. how long will it take until it goes up to $200Pa?. not long I bet. remanisant of the $50 levy on our rego that was meant to come off.......... but still hasn't, many years on.
it also gives them the opportunity to deny or refuse an application for renewal, maybe for some minor misdemener commited in the previouse licence period. then comes the renewal by check ride at our expense...It'll never end I tell ya.
DON'T LET IT START.........It's the small end of the wedge.
it would be an absolute shame to spend $30,000 on a licence that will become invalid in 24mnths.
Lets face it..... how effective is it going to be???? bloody useless I reckon. If I was going to pack my aircraft with explosives and fly it into the Menzies police station yelling Allah akbar......... how the hell is this going to stop me.......... or even identify the fact that I have this in mind. It never can or will. I could do the same with my landcruiser and get more explosives in than I could an aircraft.
when will these people realise that they were voted into government BY the people, FOR the people??? Friggen idiots.
rant over
this is a small wedge. if we let this go on, where will it stop?, we will be paying for our licence every year at a START OUT RATE of $100.00. how long will it take until it goes up to $200Pa?. not long I bet. remanisant of the $50 levy on our rego that was meant to come off.......... but still hasn't, many years on.
it also gives them the opportunity to deny or refuse an application for renewal, maybe for some minor misdemener commited in the previouse licence period. then comes the renewal by check ride at our expense...It'll never end I tell ya.
DON'T LET IT START.........It's the small end of the wedge.
it would be an absolute shame to spend $30,000 on a licence that will become invalid in 24mnths.
Lets face it..... how effective is it going to be???? bloody useless I reckon. If I was going to pack my aircraft with explosives and fly it into the Menzies police station yelling Allah akbar......... how the hell is this going to stop me.......... or even identify the fact that I have this in mind. It never can or will. I could do the same with my landcruiser and get more explosives in than I could an aircraft.
when will these people realise that they were voted into government BY the people, FOR the people??? Friggen idiots.
rant over
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Aircrew must be a really dodgey lot. To justify all this checking and rechecking.
And they must have been really bad, and need to be punished, hence the extra expense.
Passengers, on the other hand, the ones that flood airside periodically and board aircraft, require no checking at all.
And yet, most hijackings are the work of passengers; few crew hijack their own aircraft.
I would venture to suggest that before long we will all be required to report on a daily basis to our local police station. So they can keep an eye on us and ensure we do not develop any terroristic or unstable or criminal tendencies during the intervening 24 hours.
I wager half the politicians that thought up this scheme would not qualify for an ASIC themselves.
And they must have been really bad, and need to be punished, hence the extra expense.
Passengers, on the other hand, the ones that flood airside periodically and board aircraft, require no checking at all.
And yet, most hijackings are the work of passengers; few crew hijack their own aircraft.
I would venture to suggest that before long we will all be required to report on a daily basis to our local police station. So they can keep an eye on us and ensure we do not develop any terroristic or unstable or criminal tendencies during the intervening 24 hours.
I wager half the politicians that thought up this scheme would not qualify for an ASIC themselves.
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So what are you going to do?
It is all very well getting upset about it, but b!tching about it will get nowhere.
Anybody know any more about this issue than the press release? Anybody's employer objected on their behalf? Anybody spent an hour to write to DOTARS asking them to justify the need for this action? Anybody approached their federal MP saying they think this is a bad idea?
Or are we all just going to have a b!tch about it?
Anybody know any more about this issue than the press release? Anybody's employer objected on their behalf? Anybody spent an hour to write to DOTARS asking them to justify the need for this action? Anybody approached their federal MP saying they think this is a bad idea?
Or are we all just going to have a b!tch about it?
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I 've got it!
Hand the job over to one of our many capable industry groups.
The union, AOPA, AAAA etc etc.
Any industry lobby group worth its weight in proverbial should be all over this one like a rash.
Are they?
Hand the job over to one of our many capable industry groups.
The union, AOPA, AAAA etc etc.
Any industry lobby group worth its weight in proverbial should be all over this one like a rash.
Are they?
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Currawong whilst you make a good point I would say it is aimed more at the Al Quieda pilot...
After all how many pax could take over and fly your aircraft into a building?
But how many crim checks do you need? ASIC card, Lic, truck Lic, fork lift Lic. Bit like the medical need one for flying, one for life insurance, one to race cars..... Why can't they all be done at once?
Even so the user pays system is on the way in every bloody aspect of life...
After all how many pax could take over and fly your aircraft into a building?
But how many crim checks do you need? ASIC card, Lic, truck Lic, fork lift Lic. Bit like the medical need one for flying, one for life insurance, one to race cars..... Why can't they all be done at once?
Even so the user pays system is on the way in every bloody aspect of life...
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Wrote to my local MP (Labor) about it - this is the responce I got
Thank you for your recent letter regarding a new requirement for General Aviation pilots to be subjected to, and bear the cost of, regular security checks.
As you will be aware from the Fact Sheet you referred to, the details of the proposal are scant and do not cover issues such as:
• the type of background check that will be conducted on pilots;
• how long the checking processes will take and the implications of "failing";
• the rationale and justification for the 2 year renewal period;
• the rationale and basis of setting the $200 cost and which organisations receive the money and for what services/tasks;
• why sports aviation has been exempt from the new arrangements;
• which countries Australia has modelled/copied this policy from, or why the Australian Government may have seen fit to institute more rigorous requirements on Australian pilots than those in other countries;
• how the arrangements will apply to pilots visiting Australia; and
• details of the implementation and consultation plan proposed for the policy.
Labor's Shadow Minister for Urban and Regional Development, Transport and Infrastructure, Martin Ferguson is arranging for these questions to be put to the Minister's repress entatives in the Senate Estimates hearings that commence on 16 February 2004. If you have additional specific questions to-add to the above list, please feel free to write, or email them to Martin's transport advisor - [email protected] or call Denise on 02 6277 4752 by Thursday 12 February.
While Labor supports improvements to ensure Australia has a rigorous aviation security system, we intend to pursue the issues you have raised to ensure they are fair and justified to that end.
As you will be aware from the Fact Sheet you referred to, the details of the proposal are scant and do not cover issues such as:
• the type of background check that will be conducted on pilots;
• how long the checking processes will take and the implications of "failing";
• the rationale and justification for the 2 year renewal period;
• the rationale and basis of setting the $200 cost and which organisations receive the money and for what services/tasks;
• why sports aviation has been exempt from the new arrangements;
• which countries Australia has modelled/copied this policy from, or why the Australian Government may have seen fit to institute more rigorous requirements on Australian pilots than those in other countries;
• how the arrangements will apply to pilots visiting Australia; and
• details of the implementation and consultation plan proposed for the policy.
Labor's Shadow Minister for Urban and Regional Development, Transport and Infrastructure, Martin Ferguson is arranging for these questions to be put to the Minister's repress entatives in the Senate Estimates hearings that commence on 16 February 2004. If you have additional specific questions to-add to the above list, please feel free to write, or email them to Martin's transport advisor - [email protected] or call Denise on 02 6277 4752 by Thursday 12 February.
While Labor supports improvements to ensure Australia has a rigorous aviation security system, we intend to pursue the issues you have raised to ensure they are fair and justified to that end.
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I think this may call for a letter to the Shadow Transport Minister and to get a response from him on the subject. Being election year and all that, the ALP may see opposing this as an oppurtunity to grab a few votes.
Martin Ferguson
[email protected]
Ugly,
Maybe you could direct your letter to him?
Martin Ferguson
[email protected]
Ugly,
Maybe you could direct your letter to him?
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You're lucky, I didn't even get a reply from the email I sent to my local member and to John Anderson on the issue. Maybe I'll follow up with a letter!
I also sent a quick email to the contact with same
Last edited by ugly; 11th Feb 2004 at 18:16.
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Writing to Dotars..... forget it
I have written to Dotars on a whole range of issues in the past..... never got any replies to letters..... even when i did follow them up........ Frankly the Government just doesn't care...... They don't abide by the fact that " THEY ARE THERE BECAUSE OF US AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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Well, for my money, our elected officials won't know what to do unless we tell them.
I have written to John Anderson. I have also contacted the AFAP, and they say the issue is very much alive. They have my letter saying 'hey, whats up, what are we going to do about it...'
Nothing is more irritating than a whinger that does nothing to fix the problem he/she is complaining about. So unless you 'pudknockers' start writing letters to the people who can do something about it, you may as well get ready to hand over your $200.
I have written to John Anderson. I have also contacted the AFAP, and they say the issue is very much alive. They have my letter saying 'hey, whats up, what are we going to do about it...'
Nothing is more irritating than a whinger that does nothing to fix the problem he/she is complaining about. So unless you 'pudknockers' start writing letters to the people who can do something about it, you may as well get ready to hand over your $200.
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Finally got a reply to my email to Mr Anderson. Be patient as it only takes around 6 weeks!
Oh and don't expect any answers to specific questions as you will only get a nicely padded out standard response about why we need to have new security measures.
I can see that at $36 for a federal police check that only leaves the measly sum of $164 to cover the production of the licence and CASA admin fees. User pays is great in a monopoly!
Oh and don't expect any answers to specific questions as you will only get a nicely padded out standard response about why we need to have new security measures.
I can see that at $36 for a federal police check that only leaves the measly sum of $164 to cover the production of the licence and CASA admin fees. User pays is great in a monopoly!
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If it does come to the point where the Authorities expect us to pay the $200, then what about us all banding together and just NOT paying it! That would stuff them surely. It would only work however, if we ALL CHOSE NOT TO PAY! and hence make a stand.
My 2 cents worth!
Bo!
My 2 cents worth!
Bo!
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I mentioned this to a friend who works as a security guard at Perth, and she said that they are being sluged $50 for their ASIC cards now.
Asked CASA about the `sports aviation' bit. Bottom line is, if you have a CASA licence, you will be hit for $200. Including SPLs!! Also said there is meant to be a full briefing paper out in the first quarter, not holding his breath I suspect though!
So why does it cost an extra $150 to issue a SPL to a 16yo girl still at school, over the $50 for a full time employed rent-a-thug?
Asked CASA about the `sports aviation' bit. Bottom line is, if you have a CASA licence, you will be hit for $200. Including SPLs!! Also said there is meant to be a full briefing paper out in the first quarter, not holding his breath I suspect though!
So why does it cost an extra $150 to issue a SPL to a 16yo girl still at school, over the $50 for a full time employed rent-a-thug?
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I've heard that management at YMMB will be charging $200 for a card that will give access to the tarmac at YMMB - I suppose some of this will be for another police check and the rest for their own pockets. Why can't the fact that you have a pilot licence that you have already paid $200 for be enough?
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Tealady I think you may have heard wrong the cost according to MAC website is $16.50
http://www.moorabbinairport.com.au/securitycards.htm
http://www.moorabbinairport.com.au/securitycards.htm