AOPA Doing Fine.
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Aopa A-team Crumbles
http://www.aopa.com.au/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=109
PRESS RELEASE – AOPA BOARD CRUMBLES
This evening AOPA president Marjorie Pagani resigned from the board following what she described as improper conduct by former vice-president Gary Gaunt, who remains on the board as secretary. Gaunt was demoted from the VP’s job last week in Sydney after the board became aware that he had written to the Minister for Transport’s aviation adviser, and the Australian Democrats, advising that AOPA no longer supported the Notice of Motion moved by the Democrats to disallow the amendments to the Civil Aviation Regulations which imposed strict liability on almost all offences. Pagani had campaigned long and hard on behalf of AOPA for the removal of the strict liability provisions, which had been tabled without industry consultation, and without AOPA’s knowledge. At the eleventh hour, Gaunt had advised the Democrats and the Minister’s office that AOPA no longer wanted the regulations disallowed, and that Pagani’s representations were taken independently of the board. The board had not sanctioned Gaunt’s actions, and he was subsequently removed from his position as vice-president. Pagani said that she refused to remain on the board of AOPA whilst Gaunt held any executive position, and that his actions had done irreparable damage to both AOPA and to justice for Australian pilots.
Pagani said that whilst she would continue to campaign for fairness in aviation reform, she would resign from AOPA. She said that although she was extremely disappointed in the tabling of the strict liability provisions of the CARs, she nevertheless applauded Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson, and the National Airspace Implementation Group led by Mike Smith, for the recent advances in Australian airspace reform.
PRESS RELEASE – AOPA BOARD CRUMBLES
This evening AOPA president Marjorie Pagani resigned from the board following what she described as improper conduct by former vice-president Gary Gaunt, who remains on the board as secretary. Gaunt was demoted from the VP’s job last week in Sydney after the board became aware that he had written to the Minister for Transport’s aviation adviser, and the Australian Democrats, advising that AOPA no longer supported the Notice of Motion moved by the Democrats to disallow the amendments to the Civil Aviation Regulations which imposed strict liability on almost all offences. Pagani had campaigned long and hard on behalf of AOPA for the removal of the strict liability provisions, which had been tabled without industry consultation, and without AOPA’s knowledge. At the eleventh hour, Gaunt had advised the Democrats and the Minister’s office that AOPA no longer wanted the regulations disallowed, and that Pagani’s representations were taken independently of the board. The board had not sanctioned Gaunt’s actions, and he was subsequently removed from his position as vice-president. Pagani said that she refused to remain on the board of AOPA whilst Gaunt held any executive position, and that his actions had done irreparable damage to both AOPA and to justice for Australian pilots.
Pagani said that whilst she would continue to campaign for fairness in aviation reform, she would resign from AOPA. She said that although she was extremely disappointed in the tabling of the strict liability provisions of the CARs, she nevertheless applauded Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson, and the National Airspace Implementation Group led by Mike Smith, for the recent advances in Australian airspace reform.
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Let me get this right. Gaunt is removed from the board recently. A week later Pagani resigns stating that Guant had acted improperly and without board approval.
Along comes Lawford (from AOPA Forum) and says Gaunt acted with board approval.
FROM AOPA WEBSITE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The board of AOPA regrets that Marjorie Pagani chose to resign last night. However, the action of Gary Gaunt in accepting Minister Anderson's letter to consider representations from AOPA on the strict liability provisions of the 1988 Regulations, and in asking the Democrats to discontinue the disallowance motion, was made with the authority and knowledge of the AOPA board. The board considered that acceptance of Mr Anderson's offer to negotiate on strict liability was preferable to going further towards disallowance.
The board has not crumbled. On the contrary, it has now resumed working to improve aviation in Australia, and it is working to assist pilots and aircraft owners wherever possible.
_________________
Ron Lawford
AOPA President
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question being, if this is the case why was Gaunt removed from his position last week, surely Pagani was supported last week and that would indicate her version to be correct.
Or is this another battle altogether.
As I indicated else where on pprune, I only recently renewed my subscription after some 15 years... time to definately bail out again I would say.
Along comes Lawford (from AOPA Forum) and says Gaunt acted with board approval.
FROM AOPA WEBSITE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The board of AOPA regrets that Marjorie Pagani chose to resign last night. However, the action of Gary Gaunt in accepting Minister Anderson's letter to consider representations from AOPA on the strict liability provisions of the 1988 Regulations, and in asking the Democrats to discontinue the disallowance motion, was made with the authority and knowledge of the AOPA board. The board considered that acceptance of Mr Anderson's offer to negotiate on strict liability was preferable to going further towards disallowance.
The board has not crumbled. On the contrary, it has now resumed working to improve aviation in Australia, and it is working to assist pilots and aircraft owners wherever possible.
_________________
Ron Lawford
AOPA President
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question being, if this is the case why was Gaunt removed from his position last week, surely Pagani was supported last week and that would indicate her version to be correct.
Or is this another battle altogether.
As I indicated else where on pprune, I only recently renewed my subscription after some 15 years... time to definately bail out again I would say.
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Rich-Fine-Green,
You're not the only one in the same boat mate. A couple of fellas around here joined again this year after an extended break and are probably lost for good this time.
Luckily I decided to follow my gut instinct and put the Visa back in the wallet when it came time to renew.
I was a strong supporter but I've just lost faith. It's a pity cause I know there are some good people in AOPA but it's hard to sell to the young fellas coming through.
l_b
You're not the only one in the same boat mate. A couple of fellas around here joined again this year after an extended break and are probably lost for good this time.
Luckily I decided to follow my gut instinct and put the Visa back in the wallet when it came time to renew.
I was a strong supporter but I've just lost faith. It's a pity cause I know there are some good people in AOPA but it's hard to sell to the young fellas coming through.
l_b
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MaxyB
Doesn't really matter. While they are busy infighting the industry is getting rolled! Been like this since the early nineties. They can't even represent a united front amongst themselves let alone represent a segment of the industry.
Irrespective of who is right here, how does a letter go to the minister or the democrats with the AOPA committee in disagreement on whether it should be done or not. It hasn't been denied that it went. One group saying it was OK the other not.
I would have thought on such a fundamentally important issue to the industry, this group could at least get their ducks lined up. They haven't even been able to work together for three months.
Talk about the opportunity to divide and conquer on this and other issues. CASA must be laughing at the antics of Gaunt and Pagani and most likely the whole AOPA scenario.
CASA must be saying bring AOPA on if this is the organisation going to keep them in check. AOPA are irrelevant!!
Doesn't really matter. While they are busy infighting the industry is getting rolled! Been like this since the early nineties. They can't even represent a united front amongst themselves let alone represent a segment of the industry.
Irrespective of who is right here, how does a letter go to the minister or the democrats with the AOPA committee in disagreement on whether it should be done or not. It hasn't been denied that it went. One group saying it was OK the other not.
I would have thought on such a fundamentally important issue to the industry, this group could at least get their ducks lined up. They haven't even been able to work together for three months.
Talk about the opportunity to divide and conquer on this and other issues. CASA must be laughing at the antics of Gaunt and Pagani and most likely the whole AOPA scenario.
CASA must be saying bring AOPA on if this is the organisation going to keep them in check. AOPA are irrelevant!!
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The answer maybe for all Pilots and Operators to take an invested interest in AOPA, to place the organisation back in the hands of the people it was meant to represent?
Shooting through and leaving the organisation for dead is not going to help. We all need to be involved, and that means voting or putting oneself up to be elected if it is going to change.
If we do not change it no else will.
AW
www.agacf.org
Shooting through and leaving the organisation for dead is not going to help. We all need to be involved, and that means voting or putting oneself up to be elected if it is going to change.
If we do not change it no else will.
AW
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awetzel
I'm sure that everyone on the board "had" exactly the intentions that you put across.
This is not an organisation that you would vest your interests in. It has shown itself to be disfunctional and unrepresentative for so long how could you. That said i actually thought they were doing Ok for the first few months.
I'd rather put forward my own opinions, represent myself and give my time to those activities that make a difference. Putting your efforts and vote behind AOPA is wasting your vote.
However the point I make above is one of how does an organisation even put out correspondence that has incomplete ownership at board level!! Let alone a document on this hot potato subject. This letter was clearly released knowing the outcome. How could anyone want to work with these people and your not going to change the whole board all in one go.
Without knowing and being cynical, I would suggest that there may have been another agenda in the release of the letter. It would be a shame if these issues were being given in on in the hope of personal advancement. I certianly hope this is not the case.
I'm sure that everyone on the board "had" exactly the intentions that you put across.
This is not an organisation that you would vest your interests in. It has shown itself to be disfunctional and unrepresentative for so long how could you. That said i actually thought they were doing Ok for the first few months.
I'd rather put forward my own opinions, represent myself and give my time to those activities that make a difference. Putting your efforts and vote behind AOPA is wasting your vote.
However the point I make above is one of how does an organisation even put out correspondence that has incomplete ownership at board level!! Let alone a document on this hot potato subject. This letter was clearly released knowing the outcome. How could anyone want to work with these people and your not going to change the whole board all in one go.
Without knowing and being cynical, I would suggest that there may have been another agenda in the release of the letter. It would be a shame if these issues were being given in on in the hope of personal advancement. I certianly hope this is not the case.
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No Surprise....
There is no surprise that AOPA crumbled... due to the fact that Spike 007 was not a member! He would have sorted the whole sordid business out! He'd get all of his crony mates in and with a few shifty moves transform it into the Aviation Mafia... Even the donkeys at CASA in Adelaide would have had sore asses - but they already ARE asses! Oops, a bit of a freudian slip there!!!
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Not here Bart.
Bart
I'm in Brazil actually, Forteleza, look it up on a map (can you use a map Bart???)
Obviously then I wasn't at that meeting. From my perspective, Marjorie was a fr!kken hard worker, but with a particular "leadership style". That style rubbed some up the wrong way. (ask AndrewW).
She and Gaunt had a run in, as usual there were two sides to the story and I ain't choosing either. Trouble was there was an ulitmatum, not a good way of resolving things, but so-it-goes. The Board chose, Marjorie quit. Not a happy outcome, but no one is irreplacable.
As far as the 'new' Board is concerned, again from my perspective, Ron Lawford is a quiet achiever. Any of you criticisers old enuf to remember the Patroni years??? A quiet Board that got results, had 11,000 members and $500K in the bank!!! Then along came the "BIG PERSONALITIES" and down went AOPA membership.
Seems to me that under Ron L we will move away from personality driven politics into a quieter less obvious mode of operation concerned more with getting results than with what one or two d1ckhe@ds on PPRUNE and AGAF think.
So, you chronic criticholics better dream up another way to whinge about AOPA
As always sincerely yours
AK
I'm in Brazil actually, Forteleza, look it up on a map (can you use a map Bart???)
Obviously then I wasn't at that meeting. From my perspective, Marjorie was a fr!kken hard worker, but with a particular "leadership style". That style rubbed some up the wrong way. (ask AndrewW).
She and Gaunt had a run in, as usual there were two sides to the story and I ain't choosing either. Trouble was there was an ulitmatum, not a good way of resolving things, but so-it-goes. The Board chose, Marjorie quit. Not a happy outcome, but no one is irreplacable.
As far as the 'new' Board is concerned, again from my perspective, Ron Lawford is a quiet achiever. Any of you criticisers old enuf to remember the Patroni years??? A quiet Board that got results, had 11,000 members and $500K in the bank!!! Then along came the "BIG PERSONALITIES" and down went AOPA membership.
Seems to me that under Ron L we will move away from personality driven politics into a quieter less obvious mode of operation concerned more with getting results than with what one or two d1ckhe@ds on PPRUNE and AGAF think.
So, you chronic criticholics better dream up another way to whinge about AOPA
As always sincerely yours
AK
And then Mr Patroni, like so many things Aust Aviation, got Dicked.
Snarek: does the Board intend to fill either or both of the two vacancies, and if so by whom and through what process?
Here's your recipe for survival folks: Gaunt President, McKeown Vice President
Snarek: does the Board intend to fill either or both of the two vacancies, and if so by whom and through what process?
Here's your recipe for survival folks: Gaunt President, McKeown Vice President
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And here's another example of why this organisation has the problems it has.
A memeber of the board calling people who dissagree with what has taken place "d1ckhe@ds". The fact that a lot of those people are in fact AOPA members really says a lot about the thought processes that probably take place at the AOPA board meetings and the consideration these individual give to their fellow directors and the AOPA members' comments, concerns and wishes.
Better to put your support behind something like AUSAC which I note AOPA didn't want to support. At least it's starting from a greenfield position.
Of course it's being developed on the basis that AOPA is ineffective!
And yes, I'm a member of AOPA...but not for much longer!!
Yours sincerely
one of those "d1ckhe@ds"
A memeber of the board calling people who dissagree with what has taken place "d1ckhe@ds". The fact that a lot of those people are in fact AOPA members really says a lot about the thought processes that probably take place at the AOPA board meetings and the consideration these individual give to their fellow directors and the AOPA members' comments, concerns and wishes.
Better to put your support behind something like AUSAC which I note AOPA didn't want to support. At least it's starting from a greenfield position.
Of course it's being developed on the basis that AOPA is ineffective!
And yes, I'm a member of AOPA...but not for much longer!!
Yours sincerely
one of those "d1ckhe@ds"
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I couldn't have put it better myself d_concord.
Surely this is all some sort of Joke.
At no point has anyone put forward an explanation, just a defense that "no one understands and no one loves me". This is clearly what argueing in defense that it is all about pulling AOPA down.
We don't have to do that snarek, you and your board are doing fine all by themselves.
Signed,
Another one of those "d1ckhe@ds" (and also for not much longer)
Surely this is all some sort of Joke.
At no point has anyone put forward an explanation, just a defense that "no one understands and no one loves me". This is clearly what argueing in defense that it is all about pulling AOPA down.
We don't have to do that snarek, you and your board are doing fine all by themselves.
Signed,
Another one of those "d1ckhe@ds" (and also for not much longer)
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awetzel
I'm sure that everyone on the board "had" exactly the intentions that you put across.
This is not an organisation that you would vest your interests in. It has shown itself to be disfunctional and unrepresentative for so long how could you. That said i actually thought they were doing Ok for the first few months.
I'd rather put forward my own opinions, represent myself and give my time to those activities that make a difference. Putting your efforts and vote behind AOPA is wasting your vote.
However the point I make above is one of how does an organisation even put out correspondence that has incomplete ownership at board level!! Let alone a document on this hot potato subject. This letter was clearly released knowing the outcome. How could anyone want to work with these people and your not going to change the whole board all in one go.
Without knowing and being cynical, I would suggest that there may have been another agenda in the release of the letter. It would be a shame if these issues were being given in on in the hope of personal advancement. I certianly hope this is not the case.
I'm sure that everyone on the board "had" exactly the intentions that you put across.
This is not an organisation that you would vest your interests in. It has shown itself to be disfunctional and unrepresentative for so long how could you. That said i actually thought they were doing Ok for the first few months.
I'd rather put forward my own opinions, represent myself and give my time to those activities that make a difference. Putting your efforts and vote behind AOPA is wasting your vote.
However the point I make above is one of how does an organisation even put out correspondence that has incomplete ownership at board level!! Let alone a document on this hot potato subject. This letter was clearly released knowing the outcome. How could anyone want to work with these people and your not going to change the whole board all in one go.
Without knowing and being cynical, I would suggest that there may have been another agenda in the release of the letter. It would be a shame if these issues were being given in on in the hope of personal advancement. I certianly hope this is not the case.
How do you think we should move forward so GA gets’s proper representative? It is very hard for oneself to represent themselves with aviation issues at Government level or local community level without a collective backing. Should the Aviation community form another representative body which is an action group? We have just seen the sell off of the Sydney Basin Airports unopposed by any aviation body or group.
Would be interested in your thoughts.
Thanks
AW
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Board crumbles?
To all that really wants to here the truth and help AOPA and GA.
It is very sad that Marjorie has resigned as president but I feel I do have to clarify some misunderstandings as to the conduct of all parties. For a start Gary was never removed from his position as vice president a motion was put forward for this but not supported by the majority. There was then a motion to remove all the Executive to resolve the personal issues between them and allow the remaining directors to attempt to help resolve these issues, this clearly did not happen so nominations were then called for president, to which Marjorie was re-elected. 1st vice president to which Ron Lawford was re-elected, when it came to 2nd vice president Gary was nominated along with myself the end result being that Gary was defeated and I was elected in the position Gary was however elected as company secretary.
Please understand that we are only human and occasionally personalities clash, as with any other board of directors. One of the leading factors to the whole mess would be the lack of communication between the board members. There are many sides to a story and no matter what is said in respect to past conduct I believe that all parties did believe they were acting in the best interest of the members, no one ever wins when things like this happen and believe me there are casualties out of this, which is very sad.
As for the accusations that the board did not sanction Gary's actions again that is not true and again the lack of communication between the executive and directors plays a major role in this. Last night the board felt in majority that the positions held at that time should not change and that we should move forward, Marjorie felt that she could not do this and resigned her position. No one really knows whether or not the disallowance would have got through or not my understanding is it wouldn’t, what is known is we do have a letter from the minister that clearly states that he will consult with AOPA on strict liability issues that is where the dilemma starts devil you do devil you don’t either way we could loose, so as some of you may see things are not always black and white.
For those of you that know me personally you know I am not a person that lies or fabricates the truth to suit individuals needs there is so much to do to reclaim GA from the ashes and we all owe it to ourselves to make it work. Lets move on and learn from this the board has agreed to communicate better and consult as required. There are allot of people out there that would like to see AOPA fall I will give it my best to prevent this from happening.
Another factor here was I seem to remember a request from the new team to be allowed to get on with it, but some of you cant help but comment on every single issue that the board has done and even reporting AOPA to ASIC, if any of you really believe that any board member is corrupt then shame on you ASIC are there for real issues they are not to be used as a personal tool to get back at AOPA. I will not mention any one by name those who do this know who they are, I would like you to stop, I will now stick my own neck on the block if you have issues with what I am saying or AOPA please call me my personal number is 0408 637212 and I will promise to answer any questions you have about board conduct.
To conclude the board has not crumbled perhaps a hick up in fact I believe it will grow and become stronger over the next few months to say we are too busy disagreeing with each other is also untrue as you are all aware things in this industry change daily and we have to remain flexible and possibly change tactics on the run we are not always going to agree on all issues that is why we vote. Like most of you I struggle to work in this industry daily and you have my promise to attempt to make it better for all so I ask you once more help us make this work and my door is always open and I will listen. RB
It is very sad that Marjorie has resigned as president but I feel I do have to clarify some misunderstandings as to the conduct of all parties. For a start Gary was never removed from his position as vice president a motion was put forward for this but not supported by the majority. There was then a motion to remove all the Executive to resolve the personal issues between them and allow the remaining directors to attempt to help resolve these issues, this clearly did not happen so nominations were then called for president, to which Marjorie was re-elected. 1st vice president to which Ron Lawford was re-elected, when it came to 2nd vice president Gary was nominated along with myself the end result being that Gary was defeated and I was elected in the position Gary was however elected as company secretary.
Please understand that we are only human and occasionally personalities clash, as with any other board of directors. One of the leading factors to the whole mess would be the lack of communication between the board members. There are many sides to a story and no matter what is said in respect to past conduct I believe that all parties did believe they were acting in the best interest of the members, no one ever wins when things like this happen and believe me there are casualties out of this, which is very sad.
As for the accusations that the board did not sanction Gary's actions again that is not true and again the lack of communication between the executive and directors plays a major role in this. Last night the board felt in majority that the positions held at that time should not change and that we should move forward, Marjorie felt that she could not do this and resigned her position. No one really knows whether or not the disallowance would have got through or not my understanding is it wouldn’t, what is known is we do have a letter from the minister that clearly states that he will consult with AOPA on strict liability issues that is where the dilemma starts devil you do devil you don’t either way we could loose, so as some of you may see things are not always black and white.
For those of you that know me personally you know I am not a person that lies or fabricates the truth to suit individuals needs there is so much to do to reclaim GA from the ashes and we all owe it to ourselves to make it work. Lets move on and learn from this the board has agreed to communicate better and consult as required. There are allot of people out there that would like to see AOPA fall I will give it my best to prevent this from happening.
Another factor here was I seem to remember a request from the new team to be allowed to get on with it, but some of you cant help but comment on every single issue that the board has done and even reporting AOPA to ASIC, if any of you really believe that any board member is corrupt then shame on you ASIC are there for real issues they are not to be used as a personal tool to get back at AOPA. I will not mention any one by name those who do this know who they are, I would like you to stop, I will now stick my own neck on the block if you have issues with what I am saying or AOPA please call me my personal number is 0408 637212 and I will promise to answer any questions you have about board conduct.
To conclude the board has not crumbled perhaps a hick up in fact I believe it will grow and become stronger over the next few months to say we are too busy disagreeing with each other is also untrue as you are all aware things in this industry change daily and we have to remain flexible and possibly change tactics on the run we are not always going to agree on all issues that is why we vote. Like most of you I struggle to work in this industry daily and you have my promise to attempt to make it better for all so I ask you once more help us make this work and my door is always open and I will listen. RB