NAS Chart simplification! why, why, WHY?
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
check AOPA as they are in the know @ http://www.aopa.com.au/forum/phpBB2/ and speak with snarek.
Also see more comments here @ www.agacf.org too
Also see more comments here @ www.agacf.org too
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Emerald, Vic, Aust
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THANKS BUT NO THANKS
Cloudy
Thanks for the invite but as I don't watch TV I don't contribute to their stories.
I am however reminded of the Ch XX (XX being a number larger than 9 but I better not dob anyone in) chopper in the past and its regular breaches of CTR in the rush for a story. Also, the recent media intrusion into the AUF investigation of the guy who died during the forced landing. And to top it off the media chopper fanning the Ash Wednesday fires in their determination to get a story. Now they have to create "zones of exclusion" at any major disaster to prevent the media choppers from potentially creating their own.
And the media is doing a story on air safety and the NAS? Bit tongue in cheek one would argue.
Still, perhaps they will trot out the USA statistics and we will at last be able to examine the matter factually, including comparisons of the GA accident and fatality rates.
Sorry if I'm causing offence but the media lacks any credibility. It has diverted from REPORTING news to CREATING news by inciting the nutters to commit follow on crimes to emulate the vividly written media stories that encourage anyone seeking notoriety to join in. Just to give them a final kicking, it was the media under control of two key players pushing the matter for their Canberra mates who orchestrated the GST by convincing the mug Australian that smokes, beer, and cars would be cheaper. Now where's their credibility?
Well before the unicom at the Rock and TCAS I remember our calling inbound (VFR, NOSAR) arriving in the Saratoga while two jets kindly held at the taxiway for us to land. No fear or concern from any of the three of us. Now what could the media have done with that if they knew we were sharing the same skies and ground without ATC or TCAS.
Facts of the matter are that the NAS WILL come to pass; a year down the track all this hype will be history; and the only ones who are going to lose out through any media sensationalism scaring away PAX are the RPT and the ATC - a drop in travelling PAX affects jobs in both areas. Surely Oz RPT aviation has had enough losses in the past few years without further fuelling its own demise.
Akkers
Spot on again. I have been put under the hammer at CTAF/MBZ by the odd RPT totally unconcerned with procedures and trying to save time and fuel by bulldozing VFR out of the way. Fortunately a rarity.
In terms of traffic, separation, and safety, when we were on Federation Airshows in 2001 in Qld, we had about 80 aircraft including AUF and in various performance categories sharing the skies and CTAFs and the rule of the day was - as expected - SEE and BE SEEN. Radios tend to become a tad congested and there is no guarantee all calls will be heard. Perhaps we were NAS pioneers.
Cheers
Brian H
Thanks for the invite but as I don't watch TV I don't contribute to their stories.
I am however reminded of the Ch XX (XX being a number larger than 9 but I better not dob anyone in) chopper in the past and its regular breaches of CTR in the rush for a story. Also, the recent media intrusion into the AUF investigation of the guy who died during the forced landing. And to top it off the media chopper fanning the Ash Wednesday fires in their determination to get a story. Now they have to create "zones of exclusion" at any major disaster to prevent the media choppers from potentially creating their own.
And the media is doing a story on air safety and the NAS? Bit tongue in cheek one would argue.
Still, perhaps they will trot out the USA statistics and we will at last be able to examine the matter factually, including comparisons of the GA accident and fatality rates.
Sorry if I'm causing offence but the media lacks any credibility. It has diverted from REPORTING news to CREATING news by inciting the nutters to commit follow on crimes to emulate the vividly written media stories that encourage anyone seeking notoriety to join in. Just to give them a final kicking, it was the media under control of two key players pushing the matter for their Canberra mates who orchestrated the GST by convincing the mug Australian that smokes, beer, and cars would be cheaper. Now where's their credibility?
Well before the unicom at the Rock and TCAS I remember our calling inbound (VFR, NOSAR) arriving in the Saratoga while two jets kindly held at the taxiway for us to land. No fear or concern from any of the three of us. Now what could the media have done with that if they knew we were sharing the same skies and ground without ATC or TCAS.
Facts of the matter are that the NAS WILL come to pass; a year down the track all this hype will be history; and the only ones who are going to lose out through any media sensationalism scaring away PAX are the RPT and the ATC - a drop in travelling PAX affects jobs in both areas. Surely Oz RPT aviation has had enough losses in the past few years without further fuelling its own demise.
Akkers
Spot on again. I have been put under the hammer at CTAF/MBZ by the odd RPT totally unconcerned with procedures and trying to save time and fuel by bulldozing VFR out of the way. Fortunately a rarity.
In terms of traffic, separation, and safety, when we were on Federation Airshows in 2001 in Qld, we had about 80 aircraft including AUF and in various performance categories sharing the skies and CTAFs and the rule of the day was - as expected - SEE and BE SEEN. Radios tend to become a tad congested and there is no guarantee all calls will be heard. Perhaps we were NAS pioneers.
Cheers
Brian H
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eh eh eh.
'twas a Broome Centenary "Air Race" in days of yore with a $10,000 prize if I recall and Carnarvon was a pit stop.
I can't recall the number of aircraft but it was getting up there towards a 100 from Cubs to twins.
Most of the sectors were "time trials" hence the aircraft arrived "more or less" at the same time intervals that they departed around a minute apart.
As each the first of half a dozen or so of the arrivals started checking in with Carnarvon FS, the FS guy started with the usual read back of each of the preceding traffic, it got to the point that by the time he finishes a minute long read back with each new rego and ETA there would be another half dozen waiting for their turn.
It was hilarious, as fast as he could do the requ'd thing he had to repeat it all over again as there were few with the experience that would have them check in with "copied previous traffic".
Then with the calm professionalism, I had come to expect of the FS guys he reverted to a sort of "All Stations Carnarvon there are a LOT of aircraft arriving for the next little while so keep a good look out, preferred runway blah blah."
That didn't actually stop a bunch from yakking away and neither did it mean that they got the runway or circuit direction right, cut in front of each other or just plain didn't see others.
The CAA guy was found hiding in the toilets
Fortunately the daily F28 had been and long gone..
But they all made it, as they seem to do and we still had another 2 days to go and it was great fun.
We were in the habit of providing an "Official" chase or lead aircraft for these annual events and were usually first out and waiting at the next landing strip or flying shepherd. Many of the participants were outside their home airfield and way outside their normal "nav" territory and for most it was a testing and serious learning experience, with the usual professional organisation from RACWA.
There was always a helpful CAA guy with us, who, when it got too hard with dozens of arrivals all milling about in the circuit with arrivals from ALL points of the compass, over some claypan strip in the middle of nowhere we would go find a cup of coffee in a room without windows some where.
There was always a couple of participants who flew right over the top of all of this activity with dozens of aircraft already on the ground, still looking for the strip, ah well, when they didn't come back and there was break in traffic, off we'd go to find a clutch having their own private trial on the next strip up. .
There should be more of these, as apart from getting them out of their usual comfort zone it's a great way of seeing some country and just flying for fun.
What's this got to do with the NAS, see "comfort zone" above.
'twas a Broome Centenary "Air Race" in days of yore with a $10,000 prize if I recall and Carnarvon was a pit stop.
I can't recall the number of aircraft but it was getting up there towards a 100 from Cubs to twins.
Most of the sectors were "time trials" hence the aircraft arrived "more or less" at the same time intervals that they departed around a minute apart.
As each the first of half a dozen or so of the arrivals started checking in with Carnarvon FS, the FS guy started with the usual read back of each of the preceding traffic, it got to the point that by the time he finishes a minute long read back with each new rego and ETA there would be another half dozen waiting for their turn.
It was hilarious, as fast as he could do the requ'd thing he had to repeat it all over again as there were few with the experience that would have them check in with "copied previous traffic".
Then with the calm professionalism, I had come to expect of the FS guys he reverted to a sort of "All Stations Carnarvon there are a LOT of aircraft arriving for the next little while so keep a good look out, preferred runway blah blah."
That didn't actually stop a bunch from yakking away and neither did it mean that they got the runway or circuit direction right, cut in front of each other or just plain didn't see others.
The CAA guy was found hiding in the toilets
Fortunately the daily F28 had been and long gone..
But they all made it, as they seem to do and we still had another 2 days to go and it was great fun.
We were in the habit of providing an "Official" chase or lead aircraft for these annual events and were usually first out and waiting at the next landing strip or flying shepherd. Many of the participants were outside their home airfield and way outside their normal "nav" territory and for most it was a testing and serious learning experience, with the usual professional organisation from RACWA.
There was always a helpful CAA guy with us, who, when it got too hard with dozens of arrivals all milling about in the circuit with arrivals from ALL points of the compass, over some claypan strip in the middle of nowhere we would go find a cup of coffee in a room without windows some where.
There was always a couple of participants who flew right over the top of all of this activity with dozens of aircraft already on the ground, still looking for the strip, ah well, when they didn't come back and there was break in traffic, off we'd go to find a clutch having their own private trial on the next strip up. .
There should be more of these, as apart from getting them out of their usual comfort zone it's a great way of seeing some country and just flying for fun.
What's this got to do with the NAS, see "comfort zone" above.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Complacency
Ah Brianh,
Complacency kills more pilots than any other desease.
The figures I supplied to TEN News, were not from the USA but from our own ATSB. It helps to have friends in appropriate places.
Yes, we all have seen the accuracy (or lack thereof) of the News services but one uses a tool where it is presented to one.
A large group of people NOT being complacent stopped this airspace before. If it had been introduced properly and with safety and a full education program as an integral idea in the NAS plan - no one would be objecting!
Just taken a phone call from ABC news. Having seen my web site they came for an opinion - Get Your Opinion Heard at www.australis.biz/nascomment.
Positive or negative comments are ALL posted. Just count the number for and against!
Stand up rather than hide here, and have your say!
Complacency kills!
Please, fly safe in a safe environment, satisfactorily and responsibly educated.
Complacency kills more pilots than any other desease.
The figures I supplied to TEN News, were not from the USA but from our own ATSB. It helps to have friends in appropriate places.
Yes, we all have seen the accuracy (or lack thereof) of the News services but one uses a tool where it is presented to one.
A large group of people NOT being complacent stopped this airspace before. If it had been introduced properly and with safety and a full education program as an integral idea in the NAS plan - no one would be objecting!
Just taken a phone call from ABC news. Having seen my web site they came for an opinion - Get Your Opinion Heard at www.australis.biz/nascomment.
Positive or negative comments are ALL posted. Just count the number for and against!
Stand up rather than hide here, and have your say!
Complacency kills!
Please, fly safe in a safe environment, satisfactorily and responsibly educated.
