The Aussies are coming
 

Greetings my US friends

Just wondering if any of you had seen this discussion ongoing in the Australian forum and what are your thoughts on it

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...regionals.html

Looks like Jarryd Hayne is just the tip of the iceberg :E

I'm also curious about the reaction of American pilots.

To my knowledge, this would be somewhat of a new wrinkle for US airlines. I think Aussies would fit in quite nicely were they to come up here.

And, who is Jarryd Hayne ?

IIUC, here are the visa details:

http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-...nals-australia

I don't see a problem here, the numbers will likely be too negligible to have any real effect on overall "state of the industry", and if an Aussie is that anxious to come over here to sleep in crewrooms, more power to him.

One possible hiccup I see with a union carrier (which Skywest is not) is what seniority status issues might arise with pilots who are only employable "temporarily".

ike,

I'd guess you're right about the small(ish) number of Aussie applicants but what makes this story unusual, if accurate, is that any US airline actively sought expats. While I may have overlooked some event in history, I don't recall this happening before. Someone will no doubt correct my memory if needed.

The ad from the Skywest website seems to indicate a CPL is good enough to get the ball rolling if the applicant has the necessary flight time. Am I reading that right ? :

Pilot » SkyWest Airlines

It's more likely that younger expat applicants might have an FAA CPL than an ATP.

As for seniority, wouldn't the Aussies just drop off the list when their visas expired/weren't renewed ( to the pleasure of those junior to them) and go elsewhere ?

I guess this gets complicated.

The issue would be whether or not they would be full voting members while here. Would they be on the list at all? There would have to be a provision for such pilots, I would think.

This is a really bad idea. 3 reasons just of the top of my head.

1- the airline industry in the U.S. Is in the process of establishing equilibrium of supply and demand. The value of a Pilot is finally beginning to gain recognition. We don't need imported labor to continue the artificially low wages at the regionals.

2- these Aussies will ultimately gain residency/citizenship through longevity, marriage, etc. and will compete with American pilots for the coveted jobs. Who wants more competition for AA, UA, DL, UPS, FX....please raise your hands. I'm sure these folks have no interest in flying for regional making squat for the rest of their career.

3- When I lived and worked back home in the U.S., my perception of Aussies was, well, crocodile Dundee-ish laid back with a shrimp on the barbi style. Well, that can't be further from the truth. Ask anyone in EK or any other airline with a substantial number of them. Of course not all are the same and I've met some good guys but the overall majority are not easy in the cockpit.

Anyway, you RJ folk back home better get with your unions on this. Regionals need to start paying for its talent. Import labor will diminish this effort.

Oh my god, this statement cracked me up so much. :E

But anyhow, I don't think Aussies will stay in U.S permanently. I just don't see anyway of getting green card whilst being employed in US on E-3 via (visa of non-immigrant intent) unless they find some skinny American girls. Americans won't have any competition from Aussies when joining US majors. If I were to go there, I'd go to the states just to get free CRJ type rating and some hours and get outta there asap to work in Asia.

We do not even know 100% that Skywest actually has hired Australians. Does anybody actually have a confirmation?

This is another thing that shocked me when I gained some exposure. We Americans consider the Aussies, Brits, and canucks our brethren, friends and allies. The fact is they hate us just the same as the rest of the world does. The running joke around at my airline is......" whats the difference between an Aussie and an American?......The American know that we hate them....":} Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.....don't know why.

For the ones that think they will just bang in some time and leave for Asia. Well, once you figure out why the Asians are paying $300k/yr and still can't get enough punters, you will realize there is no better place for aviation than the US. Trust me, once you get a taste of it, you will park it. How can I be so sure. For the past 10 years I've flown for 2 Asian airlines, 1 European, and 1 Middle Eastern.

Don't take offense ya'll, Im just tellin it like it is.

While I do NOT see it likely that principal applicant/holder of E3 would manage green card through employment (airline), do not forget that their married spouse can work without restrictions and can later be the principal 'green card' visa or H1 initially, with right skills and employer/job.

Those who think USA is only fat females, need to actually stop watching movies taking place in SE US and go to NW US in person. True, past 30 it is less likely due to lifestyle, but get over that cliche. Nevermind the amount of Asian females that do not seem to inherit the 'fat gene' Native American and African descent people do.

cf680c2b,
why not going to certain Asian carriers to even out the crap regional pay? After all, once Aussies get to their domestic/regional, they get more take home pay for the cost of living/market than equivalent in US. The main issue for them is bridgeing piston GA to airline with the hiring/market as it is there. I met 1000hr+ guy with UK ancestry near London not long ago, talking 'space shuttle requirements' to join Aussie regional. So he went to UK to get some 737/320 time before going home.

We're talking pilots who can't get ahead due to silly job market/high criteria for jobs, who'd go for the E3 option, make the most of it for 2 or 4 years and then likely head back. Yes, not being apologetic regarding the T&Cs and need to improve them. Aviation is global and for the vast majority part the US pilots went to work all over the world, depending on coin and passports, of all sorts of experience when furloughed etc,

so please do not be so hypocritical 'defending own patch' when you've been conquering jobs successfully all over the world.

Why is newhire/junior-ish FO at regional more of an issue, moving countries, than experienced PIC or senior FO going out of US to work abroad? It'd not be more than tip of iceberg, as the 1500hrs (no other R-ATP would cut it for non ERAU, non US exmil pilots) are guys who already have worked in GA in Australia (or NZ, Africa, Indonesia etc, forced to relocate for early jobs). If anything, it'd improve newbie job market, vertical movement across Pacific - the job market is much smaller and those who actually venture on E-3 path, would be drop in ocean on US job market.

Spot on. :D This E-3 visa with regional opportunities might be my saviour. Holding FAA certs, been flying turboprop in South East Asia, can't go back to Aust because of the economy heading south. Being an ethnic Korean, it's gonna be either Korea or U.S. Bad T&C, never mind. Somebody giving me a chance with a regional CRJ job in U.S, I wouldn't think twice about it. It's the best place for flying.

Martin


I beg to differ on the assertion that aviation is global. Aviation has always been a protected realm and still is. Can I go work for Qantas, BA, Air Canada, Air France, South African, JAL (not alter ego JALways). No, I cannot if I do not hold the passport or the license (Now, what the Queen’s commonwealth do with each other, I’m not too sure about). There are small pockets within various regions that have opened their doors for foreign Pilot for one reason only, supply. Once they procure that supply domestically, guess what will happen to the expat?



That deficiency in supply has driven up the wages, which is the primary reason I ventured out. It was not to obtain experience. My presence did not cause the depression of wages nor did I take anyone’s job. In an aggregate, I was part a very small minority of American Pilots who left for overseas opportunities.


This leads me back to the #1 argument of my original post. For decades the US market had settled on an imbalanced supply side stagnating wages to poverty level making the ROI for Pilot certificates negative. Those market forces have finally caused a shift in the supply curve forcing airlines to struggle with the status quo wages. American Pilots finally see the light at the end of the tunnel and adding 1 drop in the bucket of the old structure is not in the best interest of the indigenous.


If bridging gaps in Australia is a big problem, perspective new entrants should take that into account and avoid. Only then, will that structural failure be rectified.

I'd be curious to know just how serious Skywest really is about this. Granted, the process seems much easier than the whole H-1B mess, but still it seems to me it would be hardly worth it to sponsor and train people most of whom will likely bolt at the very first opportunity. This is true of the natives also, hit at least they didn't need sponsorship.

I've heard that Pay-to-Fly with some form of bonding has been suggested.
Reminds me a little of this but without the layoffs...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us...ents.html?_r=0

The American Revolutionary war of 1775-83 notwithstanding, have we Brits ever upset the Americans??? We never seem to get these gigs. Apparently we're one of the few countries ineligible to play the green card lottery, just wondering why?:confused:

Reverserbucket,

"I've heard that Pay-to-Fly with some form of bonding has been suggested."

Suggested by whom and in what context ? This Skywest thing ?

I don't know if any have been hired yet, but so far there are none in any recent new hire class or on the line that got here under the E3 visa.

That's the thing. Until someone actually has a proof that Australians got hired by Skywest, this is at the moment, a complete utter :ugh:

Captbod,
The lottery is for countries that do not traditionally send a lot of emigrants to the US. If a country sends over a certain threshold number, then they're ineligible. A lot of Brits come to the States on employment preferences and as spouses, so there are enough to kick the UK out of the lottery. Northern Ireland is counted separately, and people from NI are eligible to apply.

You know it's funny what you guys are saying about American girls, way back in 1999 I was part of a group of 6 young CPL/FIs from New Zealand, who all went to flying school together. Times were hard finding jobs in NZ, so we all kind of simultaneously found ourselves with the same plan of going to the UK on "working holiday" visas (which are pretty easy for kiwis to get).

At the time, we all kind of had the intention of padding our logbooks for a couple of years and then heading back home down under.

But life happened as it does, and every single one of us ended up falling in love / getting married to a Brit. 15 years later we've all got British passports and kids now, every single one ended up flying heavy jets in the UK (although a couple have now moved on to Emirates and Cathay).

The reason the E3 visa bill was passed by congress was that Australia already had given the right for Americans in professions the right to work in Australia. The bill is reciprocating what is available to Americans, except the USA put a cap on the number of visas issued to 10,500. Australia does not have a cap. Australia will also issue a visa to a skilled technical trade (eg a welder), the USA requirement is college degree or equivalent.

Australian organisations have employed American pilots with this visa class even for positions that due to national security reasons would normally only be available to Australians.

There are Americans working for Qantas and Virgin. Many high paid defence support roles are also filled by Americans, not just flying jobs.

Please stick to the facts that you have direct knowledge of.