Moving to the USA
 

Hi Guys

I'm a JAA/EASA ATP holder, and I live in the UK, problem is I have an American girlfriend who lives in Michigan, and i'm wondering how easy it is to move over to the USA for a flying career?!

I'm not fussy about jobs, whether it's instructor, airline, turbo props, I'll take anything, just want to know my options.
I've heard that a lot of American pilots become an instructor first, as you need 1500-3000hrs for airline work, and also that regional airlines are crappy to work for?

Any advice would be great! Cheers

I believe, if married, you're in like Flynn. Yes, the US has loads of pilot jobs! Unfortunately, it also has loads of pilots looking for them. Converting the ATP shouldn't be difficult, not sure of the exact process, but reasonably cheap and painless.

Regionals are the way to the mainlines, if the mainlines ever hire again. The regionals are progressively shrinking as 50 seat RJs are retired. It's hard to say when the next hiring boom will begin. Their are many foreign-born US airline pilots.

Michigan isn't the best of places to start looking, however. The economy there has been down so long, it looks like up.

GF

As the holder of a foreign ATP you'll just have to take the FAA ATP knowledge test (it's multiple choice) and the ATP checkride.

You'll need the right to work which means the girlfriend will have to become the wife.

Yes, even more for AA, Delta, SW and others at that level, yes.

You'll have to jump through the TSA insecurity carry-on too. No requirement for training or an instructor recommendation for the ATP checkride but I strongly recommend some amount of training if you're not familiar with the US way of doing things. Bear in mind that it's a checkride each for multi land, single land, multi sea and single sea, although you can combine some things eg do the flight test in an amphibian with alightings & landings to get both land & sea (single or multi, as appropriate) from the one flight test.

You'll need to make sure your hours meet each & every minimum for the licence. The requirements are specified in Title 14 CFR, Part 61 (ie FAR 61). Be aware of specifics though - what's counted as cross country time for one licence level isn't necessarily the same for a different licence level.

There are lots of jobs - if you're prepared to move - but often with low pay.

Cheers for the replies guys!

I actually don't mind where in the US I am, infact I hope it isn't michigan haha.
I did most of my hours in Arizona so I'm fine with the US system, but not in an airline obviously.....

I'm not sure marriage is on the cards in the next year, so I may have to look into a Visa of some sort, but I'm guessing that'll be a pain in the ass too!?

It sounds like the possibility is there though, if I'm willing to take the leap......hmmm

The right to work will be a pain. Given the number of unemployed US pilots it's almost impossible for a US company to justify sponsoring a foreign national. Now if you could find a company that says they need a Welsh speaking pilot and you happen to speak Welsh....

Thanks Marker Inbound

My welsh is only basic unfortunately, I do speak fluent Iranian though haha, but that's another story, and I'm sure keeping that quiet will be in my best interest if I want to emigrate over there haha

I have a feeling this is going to be difficult to say the least, even if I look other places than airlines.......?

What does your current logbook look like? Many US pilots I know would be all to eager to go and work in the EU.

If you've got 1000 Turbine PIC, you'll qualify to apply to just about all of the major airlines (Delta etc).

With 3-4000 total time, including 1000-2000 turbine time, you should be able to apply to some of the LCC's (JetBlue etc)

With 1500 total time, including 100-300 multi time, you can get into a regional airline, but you really don't want to be at a regional airline.

Back in the late 1970s when Iran was melting down and people read newspapers I recall help wanted ads along the lines of "CFI wanted, must speak fluent Farsi, min TT 648 hours, 38 ME w/ 17 in PA-34." You could tell they were building a job around the qualifications of one their instructors and who had to renew a visa.

You could always take up acting, drinking and getting married.

No, son, it isn't. Uncle Sam is always looking for people who speak <insert generic middle-eastern language here>. You might not be employable as a pilot, but you'd be employable. You'll be working overseas a lot, though (hint, hint).

I don't know if US consulates have someone you could consult on green card issues, but it's worth asking.

Some equally useful and hilarious replies there!

Yeh maybe some kind of James Bond spy/espionage job would allow me to use my fluent Farsi....hmmmm

The embassies should be able to help but the lines are always slammed and cost about $6/min to call!

Check Airman: my logbook is pretty bad im afraid! I have 250 TT, and the only Turbine hours have been in a 737 sim, so they won't even count for most jobs.

Sounds like the best and easiest option would be to land my first jet job in europe and build hours with the aim of moving west after a year or two?

Japandwell: we have a different health insurance policy over here, it's free haha, so we don't need to pay per year, we get charged through the roof for other stuff but i'd have to start from scratch in the US, which would again be a pain and difficult.....

Maybe I should be asking if my girlfriend is worth this hassle? hahaha

Thanks for the constant input and replies, this is really good stuff.....

Just get married! Greencard is automatic after that. If you are not a UK citizen (sorry you don't qualify) you have until November 3 to fill out the application. https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/

For DV-2014, natives of the following countries are not eligible to apply because the countries sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the United States in the previous five years:

Bangladesh, Brazil, Canada, China (mainland-born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, South Korea, United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and Vietnam.

To convert to an FAA ATP this guy has it down to a science!
Prairie Air Service, Inc

List of US Airlines
Airline Pilot Central

Jobs

Pilot Jobs, Aviation Jobs, Aviation Employment, Job Fairs, Career Fairs (costs money)

AvCrew.com, Inc.

Find Jobs. Build a Better Career. Find Your Calling. | Monster.com

GoJet Airlines - Flight Crew

https://re2o.ultipro.com/rep1003/Job...E178A3824B0B01

MAC Careers

Pilot Careers | Flight Express, Inc.

Moving to the USA
 

First off as somebody who has made the transition from Wales to the USA let me assure you of one thing. Getting married to a USA citizen does not assure you of a green card or residency. People who tell you this are mistaken. After marrying my American wife it took over 3 years to finally get the green card. There is a lot of paperwork, documentation, background checking, immigration medical and interview to go through first.
Secondly if you are granted a temporary work permit, good for 1 year, after your initial application then you have the wonderful experience of entering the pilot pool and looking for a job. The pilot job market here is awash with pilots that have thousands of hours of jet time so beware of what you are getting into.
Thirdly living in the USA may or may not suit you. It is very different both in good and some not so good ways. Remember this is a land without pubs and fish and chip shops:(
Cymru am byth.

A Pandy:
Cymru am byth indeed! Reading that was a bitter pill to swallow....did you move there then have to wait for a green card? If so what did you do for work?
What would you do first if you were me? Living in the US wouldn't be a problem, I've spent months there in the past.....

Edie: thanks for the websites etc too

Cheers all

Marriage does not equal green card.
My son-in-law from Panama waited 2 years before permission to enter the US.
Then he waited 2 more years for permission to work.
Then he waited 2 more years for an actual green card.
There were numerous incidents during that time, like not being allowed to return to the US because his 2 year visa only had 3 months left, and he didn't have a return ticket, etc.
Point is, it is extremely difficult to migrate legally to the US.

I don't know what happened to you guys, but my wife is European and we got married in the US, sent off the papers and had an interview three months later. Walked out of the interview with a stamp on my lady's passport and she got the green card in the mail two weeks later. The stamp was good enough to serve as the green card until the actual one came in the mail.

Bingo! And don't leave the country until you have your green card!

Interestingly, when your European (now) wife entered the US, were you planning on marrying at the time? And if so, did she indicate on her visa application that she was planning on getting married? there is a question on the visitors visa form to which you must answer 'No' regarding plans of marriage, or you won't get a visitors visa. However if you enter a country with the intent of marrying, but answer 'no' to said question, you can be accused (and have to prove otherwise) of violating immigration policy by not telling the truth on the visitor visa. And if you have lied on a visa application, you can be banned for 10 years.

I'd say stay in the EU until you have 1000 Turbine PIC. If you come here with 5000hrs on a 777, but no PIC time, you'll likely be looking at a regional carrier, flying a CRJ or an ERJ. You do not, I repeat do NOT, want to be at a regional carrier in the US unless you are at the very top of the payscale and seniority list. That's the only time it's worth it.

Wow guys this is all extremely off-putting haha!

Check Airman: I believe our F/O hours are logged under PICUS (which if you guys don't use there is Pilot in command under supervision) so not sure if they'll be useful of if I need the full PIC hours...??

It's not looking good either way is it. On the off chance I'm even allowed to move there I probably won't get a job!

Dark-room-source: not sure if me being british will make things easier or more difficult than someone from Panama? But that doesn't sounds like a quick route haha, 6 years, wow!

Cheers again for all the info peeps!
Ben

With 12 million illegal Mexicans in the US what do you have to lose? Head to the US, get married and don't leave the country until you get your green card. If you are flexible and willing to work you will get a job. This thread might be an indication that supply is starting to catch up with demand. $5000 sign on bonus at Eagle - Airline Pilot Central Forums

My wife entered the US via Visa Waiver Program. No questions asked regarding intent to marry. If you plan on getting married and you require a visa, you will require a fiancé visa (which can take quite a while to obtain).

At most companies in the US, they only accept legitimate PIC time, no PICUS. When they are asking for PIC, they want to know who signed for the aircraft. They don't really care who was touching the controls or who was pretending to be commander, they only care about who signed off on the aircraft.

I came to the US via a fiance visa. I think it took about 5 months to get, with a huge amount of paperwork, some money & an interview. Once in the States you have a limited period in which to marry. After marriage you then have to apply to adjust your status to permanent resident ('green card'). That took a between 1.5 - 2 years. Possibly a bit over two years from marriage to green card. In the meantime you can apply & pay for a temporary work permit which must be renewed annually. You aren't permitted to leave the country - or, more accurately, can't without it affecting your permanent residency application - unless you apply & pay for an 'advance parole'. This lets you leave and, importantly, re-enter the US while your green card application is being processed. It too must be renewed annually.

One slight benefit, due to the time it took for the application to adjust status to be approved, was that my green card was issued for 10 years instead of the usual 2 years or so. As it turned out, being married for more than a certain qualifying period removes the tempory green card step.

Thanks again guys

One question that seems really important for me to ask is:
Does anyone know of a person who's migrated to the US and actually got work in aviation (or more importantly a cockpit) while waiting for a work permit, or even afterwards....???

I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about spouses and yourselves moving, but no idea if anyone's managed to fly afterwards? I suppose it's been too much of an investment for me to work in a bar or coffee shop for two years while my flying skills go down the drain.

Cheers again to everyone
Ben

You won't get to work anywhere without a work permit, except for labouring jobs with shady companies that don't ask too many questions. I didn't even try to work until it was legal for me to do so. If you get caught then you'll have screwed your green card application. As for the rest of your question, I work as a pilot. I currently fly SIC in a Beechjet, PIC in a Kingair 200 (both for their owners under Part 91 ie private ops), and a Navajo I manage under both Part 91 (owner) & Part 135 (charter/public transport). I've also flown Pt 135 in Kingair 90 & 200.



[/i]Later...[/i]

I should add that I found work, including flying work (Pt 135), with a temp. work permit while awaiting the outcome of my green card application

The waiting time for getting the green
Card change from the region that you apply from
California,Florida ect.will take much longer that
North Dakota,Wisconsin ect.
In the beginning most likely you will get a job in the regional
Pay is not the best but still you will fly nice airplanes
Embraer 190-175-135 CRJ.
You will have a bright future.
The hard part is stay married

Captain two-holds,
To answer your question, I came to the US about 21 years ago to hours build and ended up flight instructing for a few years and then getting an extended visa which enabled me to continue building time including turbo-prop time.
After getting married and applying for a change of status I had to wait about 6 months to get my first work permit. This enabled me to apply for more permanent positions and I ended up flying for a multi-national US corporation with operations in all continents. The actual green card took another 2 years or more to obtain. Still fly for the same company and starting later this year will bring a Gulfstream G650 on line.
If you end up moving to the US because of marriage be prepared to spend several years building time and/or working crummy jobs because unless you have quality turbine time the good jobs are few and far between.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
By the way which part of Wales do you live in ?

A Pandy
I live near Cardigan/Aberporth, which is on the west coast as you probably know.
I'm not against instructing, in fact i'd like to do it, but it doesn't sound like they'll sponsor or give a job to a non-permanent resident.....so going to the US asap would mean I'd never even get something half-decent, hmmmm. And I don't have the money to hour build, bugger. It sounds like being here for a few years would be the only way around it, not ideal though.

Cheers all

Some good info here.

I would like to pose another scenario that I am trying to make head or tails of.

I work and get paid outside of the US. I plan to keep this job, and just live in the US.

My wife and I would both hold 10 year tourist visas for the US that allow 6 month stays at a time.

Is it possible for us to base ourselves in the US, without the requirement for green cards? We just plan to rent a place for the next two years or so. Anybody with the answers on how we have to go about doing this, or if it is even possible?

Thanks in advance

doesn't matter how long is the visa,you're still a turist
you'r not legal to work in the U.S.
if you get the social secury card (you need it for everything)still
say "not valid for work".

I think that would not be a problem, as long as you both are leaving the country prior to the expiration of your visa. You are not working here so who cares if you are staying for a length of time as a tourist. Now, finding someone to rent you an apartment might be another issue.

Multiple entry 10 year visa B1/2
 

I obtained one of these visas 8 years ago when I was told that my multiple planned entries to the US for the ski season would pose a problem

Not once did it make my life easy going through immigration. I was taken for questioning EVERY TIME I entered the US and subjected to pointless interviews wanting to know my "real intentions" for entering the country. The same question was asked every time, "why didn't you get a visa waiver?" I would explain the reason and they just kept repeating the question over and over. You would think the embassy that issued the visa to me would know that this was going to happen.

I later found out that the B1/2 visa is primarily for visiting business people who aren't actually working in the US but have conferences or meetings to attend. If you just wanted to hang out in the US for a few months a year I would suggest contacting your local embassy to arrange for an interview to explain what you want to do. Otherwise you may end up with more trouble than what it's worth. Then again I tried that and look what it got me!

I'm not trying to sound demeaning or any such thing but, with those hours, you have a 'frozen' ATP which is quite unique to JAALand and something most Americans have never even heard of, let alone know how to interpret. An FAA ATP = 1500 hours, so it's probably worth establishing your qualifications a bit more accurately before setting off for the Wild West looking for a paid flying job (even if you do get the right to live and work in the US).

Ah, didn't see that part. As the holder of a JAA/EASA commercial license you'll have to get a FAA private certificate first (either one "based on" your JAA/EASA license or a "stand alone" one. Then you'll have to turn right around and get a FAA commercial. There's no provision to "convert" a foreign license to a FAA certificate at a level higher than private unless it's Canadian and unlike the ATP, there is no relief from having to hold a FAA private certificate before you apply for the commercial unless you have military flight time.

Pontius, you wouldn't happen to be the Matthew Pontius in Goodyear would you haha?? And that wasn't demeaning, I'm glad to be learning how difficult this is proving to be!!
Sounds like instructing would be the only thing I could do until I get the full 1500 hours? Or maybe not?! Anyway i've given up on the idea and would have to build time here first......
cheers marker inbound too, seems like a long way round huh!

You could instruct up to 500 hrs
Then banner tow or aerial surveying up to 1000hrs
Skydive pilot at around 700-1000 hrs
Part 135 PIC at 1200 hrs
Regional airlines at 1500 hours
YMMV

thanks zonda racer, so i need at least 500 (double what I currently have!) to start instructing?! That'll be some extremely expensive hour building huh!

No, what I was saying is that under 500 hours, instructing would be your only option (there are other options but very hard to come by). The more hours you have, the more options exist to find employment. Sorry if I wasn't clear before