Foreign pilots flying for US Carriers
 

Hi,

Just wondering if anybody knew what it would take to convert an Australian CASA CPL to an FAA CPL. I looked on the FAA website and its not that clear.

Cheers

Thanks Malc..... im just deciding if i want to try and get a job in the US or just stick to Australia here.

I know i would need to find a company to help me get a green card/Visa, so im just looking around at sites.... havnt seen much to accomodate me... any suggestions. I want corporate, but willing to work my way up! I have around 1000 hours at the moment.

If I were you I would try Regional Express in Australia rather than spending so much money to convert your license and then find out no one is hiring for a while. :ugh:

flying us carrier
 

what was amin said true. if with F1 you can work in local likes university.
its was om happen to me before 911. I got the job part 121 finished all my training except IOE. the checked on the sim was part 142.
the problem was on the department of labour. its to complicated.
because to issue H1B visa from INS is depend approvall from dpt of labour.
now with after 911 even worst they not even think to give a foreigner works as pilot.
but now with major non us carrier I fly to IAD/EWR /JFK/IAH evry month.
even you married with american takes 2 years.:confused:

try in middle east or india they plenty jobs in aviation.:ok:

If you have the legal right to work here in the US (Green Card). US Airlines will hire you if they like you. Contrary to popular belief, the US does not discriminate against foreigners like the rest of the world does. None of that, only hiring your own kind, stuff.

Although, after what happened on 9-11, and since the whole world comes HERE to learn how to fly, we should "discriminate".

Weasil:

I hope I did not malign other pilots at airline x or anywhere else in my original post way back in '07.
The former IP there told me that one story and did not have time to explain the context or circumstances in detail etc.

There are so many changes in the US right now, the only thing that can help you is to have a good bit of seniority. Despite that, several small airlines just closed down and numerous other small companies could follow them.

Must say, I find it amusing that so many are trying to break into US aviation. There is someone over on the Canada forum seeking to BUY M-E time!!:ugh:

If you even pay the slightest attention to the news, US airline flying is just about in a depression. Chapter 11 was bypassed by several lines recently, Aloha, for example. UAL (and all the others) are going to furlough big time! Even some corporate operators are shutting down or reducing. Time to dust off that college sheepsking and see what is says-that might be a better future!! :sad:

Airline Depression !!!!!
 

The US economy is in a recession, but the airline industry seems to be headed into a depression. The worst part of this down cycle are the contributing factors. OIL will probably stabilize at $200. The Supply:Demand equation is irreversible. The trickle down effect of the deficit will stunt tourism and business travel. The reduction of essential service air travel will further squeeze economic travel growth for the airline industry.

Its pretty simple as i tried it before.
No Green Card = No job in US of A (less those holding J1 visas)


Unless you come from Mexico... ;)

Several Swedes at UPS (unfortunately we have some Weedges too ;))

why
 

why would you want to come here the future growth is in Asia and the middle east there is no hiring right now the HR will hire citizens before aliens, so don;t waste your time.

Not totally true. I have seen many aliens get hired instead of citizens. If you meet the requirements, they'll hire you(whenever the economy gets better).

"Not totally true. I have seen many aliens get hired instead of citizens."

Well, to clarify this... You're talking about permanent residents ('green card' holders) not just aliens being hired... Same rules apply in Europe where if you are a permanent resident (citizen 'in waiting') you may seek employment just like the citizens can...

You are right USav8or, I was talking about green card holders. Otherwise no chances.

Some airlines, like Continental and Frontier, will require a US passport as they don't want to mess with the background checks required for non citizens, including Green Card holders. It's expensive and time consuming, needed for all future training events too.

"Some airlines, like Continental and Frontier, will require a US passport as they don't want to mess with the background checks required for non citizens, including Green Card holders. It's expensive and time consuming, needed for all future training events too."

It's also illegal but most of all totally incorrect...

I know 2 pilot at Frontier and 5 at CAL who are yet to obtain a US passport... Know several more that got a US passport many years after being employed there...

I've worked with recruitment issues at several smaller airlines but the process is the same at all airlines. Your statement is simply incorrect. Not sure why you're spreading this false information?

Some airlines might have specific requirements if they have lots of DOT or postal contract flying but even then a US passport is not required. FDX for example wants you to have physically lived in the US 5 years prior to being employed there due to their huge postal contract...

Personal experience. I had an app with one of those carriers some years back when I was a green card holder.

This was not an airline I had an app with, but check out the link which states "Must possess a US Passport". They've changed it on their current official website ad but it was very specific previously.

Pilot Job :: Part 121 First Officer (Pilot)

Well, look at the phrase just a few sentences above - “Authorized to work in the US” – that’s the one which pertained to you at the time.

Most airlines will combine the two ‘requirements' and list them as “US Citizen or Authorized to Work in the US” or something similar.

IF your personal experience was that you were not hired simply because you were a green card holder – well, you could sue the crap out of them because according to the law you were authorized to work in the US…

Did they actually tell you that's why you weren't hired? :confused:

There is no doubt from the ad I posted that you had to have a US passport, it didn't say "or". Read it carefully.

I'm not sure when your friends were hired but in the post 9-11 hiring, US passports became very important with some companies, whether noted upfront or an unofficial policy. It wasn't a problem prior to that. I can't give you details of my experience with certain applications (to protect the inside sources) but I can assure you it's a factor. Suing would be fruitless, hard to prove and would ruin your name with other pursuits. I heard about somebody who already tried that.

There is no doubt from the ad I posted that you had to have a US passport, it didn't say "or". Read it carefully.

I know there is no doubt in the ad… Read carefully what I said which is “most airlines” and obviously not that airline… Basically, the ad incorporates a linguistic error or rather they list the requirements in two separate paragraphs instead of one like many airlines will do but they too have to follow the law…


I'm not sure when your friends were hired but in the post 9-11 hiring, US passports became very important with some companies, whether noted upfront or an unofficial policy. It wasn't a problem prior to that.

Having gone to numerous HR events in the past (Airinc, OBAP, WAI, etc) I developed friendships with many recruiters at different airlines… Is it possible that some people out there are sexist, racist, biased, etc? You bet you, that exists all over the world and I’m sure those people will use whatever excuse to turn someone down if they don’t like the person’s race, gender, nation of origin, etc, etc…

However to arbitrarily claim that airlines ‘require’ US passports is simply not true… Statistics do not lie and there are numerous non-US passport holders at many different airlines, including many major airlines (and the ones you've mentioned) that have been hired both before and after 9/11.


I can't give you details of my experience with certain applications (to protect the inside sources) but I can assure you it's a factor. Suing would be fruitless, hard to prove and would ruin your name with other pursuits. I heard about somebody who already tried that.

I’m sorry someone turned you down and that you think it was because of you being born outside the US. Maybe that’s exactly what happened, who knows?
However, if that’s the case then it’s about that one person or persons being biased and NOT about some kind of “unofficial airline policy” because that policy does not exist.

As far as a lawsuit being fruitless – I guarantee you that the ACLU fanatics would’ve found a way to make it very “fruitful” if there were grounds for a lawsuit. Additionally you could’ve done it anonymously…

Again, my point is please blame the guilty individuals rather than some kind of orchestrated secret airline policy…

I've provided some links to back up my point, here's another with the following judgement

(a). Cease and desist from the unfair immigration-related employment
practice found in this case, i.e., preference for U.S. citizen hires in
violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1324b;

http://www.usdoj.gov/eoir/OcahoMain/...Volume1/74.pdf

I would be interested to see the stats you talk about, especially since 2005/06 among some majors. And I'm only talking about new hires since then, not pilots already employed who were foreigners.
I'm happy at the major where I work, but I know that I've seen this kind of thing with others in the past. Not a matter of sour grapes as things turned out for the better anyway. Just relaying some experiences from myself and others.

I've provided some links to back up my point, here's another with the following judgement

(a). Cease and desist from the unfair immigration-related employment
practice found in this case, i.e., preference for U.S. citizen hires in
violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1324b;

http://www.usdoj.gov/eoir/OcahoMain/...Volume1/74.pdf

I’ve tried to read the entire document and it wasn’t easy… I failed my English Legalese class… ;)

I’m a little confused why you'd bring up this particular case? It's a 20+ year old case and it deals with a small (at the time) regional airline; most of all there is this statement in there clarifying that ‘intending to become a US citizen" is no longer required:

“Contrary to its prior position, the Department no longer requires that a declaration be completed and filed before the occurrence of the alleged discrimination. That change in policy and interpretation which became effective on November 30, 1988…”

Way before my time but from what I understand in the past people used to sign a statement saying that one day they’d apply for US citizenship. However, that "promise" was never followed up on so many people never applied despite signing the form…

In a way it’s similar to today when many people become dual citizens despite the "promise" they make to the US - “…I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;…”

I’m sure you know some pilots who’re dual citizens, don’t you? So it’s another one of those "we would like for you to do this but we won’t actually enforce it" deals…

In your example, after 1988 they even stopped asking people to obligate themselves to apply for the US citizenship (at least according to your article)… That's my, admittedly limited, understanding of this whole procedure...

Either way, you believe the US airlines have a hidden anti-alien agenda while I don’t, even though I acknowledge there are some biased individuals out there – so let’s agree to disagree… I only wish the European airlines were as accommodating to American pilots in Europe as the US airlines are to the European pilots (in both cases I’m talking about permanent residents.) Disclaimer – born and raised in Europe myself…

I would be interested to see the stats you talk about, especially since 2005/06 among some majors. And I'm only talking about new hires since then, not pilots already employed who were foreigners.

Since you mentioned CAL before - in the last 3 years or so I know of 2 Norwegians and 1 German hired at CAL… One of them was in one of the last classes they had… The German is about to become a US citizens; not because he has to but because he wants to be able to vote – he wasn’t too happy about the last prez election… ;) Either way, I’m sure you’ll run into discrimination every now and then but I think you’ll see that everywhere… ACLU would’ve loved to represent you or your friend… :E

I'm happy at the major where I work, but I know that I've seen this kind of thing with others in the past. Not a matter of sour grapes as things turned out for the better anyway. Just relaying some experiences from myself and others.

I agree with you that things always happen for a reason so I’m glad you’re happy where you are.

Take care…

Well I know two Norwegians that were hired at Delta, one in 2007 one in 2008. US companies cannot discriminate against background if the applicant has all the legal work requirements. Smaller companies are far more likely to discriminate than a major airline, but even my small company hired "green card" holders.

Hello
 

Hi guys,
my name is Vassil Spirtov and I am from Bulgaria, Eastern Europe.I am sure that here I would meet a lot of experienced people that could give me any idea or solution about my case but first let me briefly introduce myself.
I already got my FAA CPL/SE/ME/IR pilot license in a flight school located in Houston, Texas.I completed my entire flight training under Part 61 and I logged in around 300 flight hours.I used to fly airplanes like C152, C172(some carburetor models), C172R(fuel injected), C172RG(which is a single engine complex airplane), Piper Seneca-43-200 and Piper Geronimo-23-180.I had a great time flying in the USA and I had the chance to do couple of very long cross country flights,the first one from Houston to Miami in Florida and the second one from Houston to Las Vegas in the state of Nevada.I even got my spin endorsement,which is not a part of the training for a commercial pilot but it was my choice,so I added one more endorsement in my logbook.I got M-1 visa for my flight training in November 2010 and I successfully finished everything in September 2011.I would do it much faster than that but the maintenance in the school wasn't so good and I got some troubles with the airplanes I used to fly and besides,I got a financial problem so I was supposed to stop flying for a month.
Anyway,after I finished and got my FAA license I came back to my country where I started to work on the process of issuing a JAA license(the one pilots have in Europe).It is actually kind of conversion process and based on the flight experience I got in the USA I will be issued a JAA one.Well,I already finished all the 14 JAA ATPL(A) written tests,that you have maybe heard about,with an average score of 93.5 %.My next step is getting an anual flight check on a Multi Engine airplane here in my country with a local examiner since they must be sure of flying skills too and then I will be working on getting an ICAO Level of English proficiency,I need minimum Level 4.Finally they will issue me JAA CPL and ATPL(A) frozen license(the word 'frozen' in Europe says that,when I pass the written exams mentioned above I have my European ATPL(A) on a paper and once I reach 1500 flight hours on any type rated airplane I would have the real ATPL(A) license).
I am a former military too,I graduated from a the Aviation Academy in my country in 2006 and I was promoted in the rank of lieutenant.Then I worked in the Air Force as a lieutenant, Air Traffic Controller for about two years and in 2008 I was laid off because great reforms have been taking place that time in the Ministry of Defense in my country and many young lieutenants like had the same destiny.I got a higher diploma with a Bachelor Degree from the academy.
I am trying to do is to find a way out to go back to the USA and continue to study as a flight instructor there,then get a job and build more flight experience so that I would be able to apply for some local airlines in the future.
I've read through a lot of comments,some of them seemingly true,others nonsense,that there are ways out for foreigners to go to the USA and fly there for profit.I would like to know which is the best way for me to do that.
Is it through F-1 or J-1 or H-1B visa,or maybe green card?I myself dropped an application for the green card lottery this year but with no result!
I would appreciate your comments!Feel free to put the on the wall any time!

They are, if you have the unrestricted right to work and stay there and speak the relevant language. There might be still operational restrictions though. For example our US pilots and canadians are not allowed to fly to russia, only those with a german passport are allowed. The company has to plan around that, but is used to do that, no big deal. We employ quite a few "foreign" pilots now, one of our us citizens made it even into the executive council of the countries pilot union and is responsible for international relations. How many foreign pilots are in the executive council of ALPA?