Age 65
 

So it's official.... After 12/13/2007 FAA goes 65....

MODS...
Weren't there a couple of responses to this which appear to have disappeared ? Or am I really getting too old... or too drunk for this ?

FLCHG
 

A pilot due to retire at AA or at anyother US airline as of 31st December 2007 due to being 60, may he now remain in his present position (and progress) / airline until his 65th birthday?

That's right.....

Not quite. The date is December 13, 2007. As soon as the president lifted his pen from the paper, the law took effect and the FAR prohibiting using pilots over 60 became non-existent.

Just cuz the law has changed does that mean it will automatically be changed in all collective agreements?

Who has a contract that requires their pilots to retire at 60?

Thats what I am asking... Is that United Pilot going to get out of his seat upon reaching 60... Will his name be scratched off the seniority list???.... My understanding is , as there is no manadtory retirement age negotiated in the contract he stays.... or as discrimination is illegal in the US, he stays... Any United, AA, Fed Ex, Southwest pilot wishing to comment?

You would be correct. Most contract specify when "normal" retirement kicks in. An example would be Age 60 or 25 years, for example.

However, most do not specify a mandatory retirement age, so pilots may work as long as they can maintain qualifications. That's how over 60 pilots managed to return to the F/E panel.

Now, those guys who are still on seniority lists (mostly at FedEx, UPS or other freight operators) may now bid back to their Captain's seats upon the first bid opening.

Agree Whiteowl: Additionally, some carriers dumped their entire pension obligation on the U.S. government in bankruptcy court, so those "smoking gun" contracts have no retirement language whatsover, at least as far as pensions, etc. are concerned. United, USAir, Continental, Eastern, PanAm, Delta, TWA.......can't type anymore.....

Excellent news!

Now the contract world will be left without a steady supply of retiring US pilots (Captains) and either up their conditions or promote from within to solve their crewing requirements.

About time.

Glad I'm not a US based F/O though... that would suck!

WWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Now I can work another 5 years to make up for all the lost benefits and wage cuts! :}

All you guys working past 60 at major airlines need to look yourselves in the mirror! You are taking money from the guy in the right seat and putting it in your own. Not to mention prolonging furloughs for guys on the street.
:mad:

Does this mean that I will have to get my own carts at Walmart? :p

RAAS... :mad:
YOU no doubt will hand in your ATPL at the age of 60 ... just to allow some ambitious little tyke in the right hand seat to get a new view of the ground...
Get used to it.. the 60 yr olds are the baby-boomers who changed the world in the 60s ... they were never going to put up with this 60 yr old retirement crap...

Dear Mr. Raas767
 

By any chance, could you remove your foot from my 02 mask hose... ¿?¿?
Sorry to steal "your wages" until I will hit 65 next November 2008.
xxx
I strapped myself in June 1958 in a J3C-65 Piper Cub, first lesson, age 14...
A few years later it was a F-104G, scared myself a few times.
Then with PanAm, my check-captains were ex P-51 or... C-54, Berlin Airlift 1949...
They had crossed oceans with Loran-A on Stratocruisers and DC-6/7s...
I worshipped them. I cried at their retirement parties, and missed all the experience they gave me.
Sure, flying sideways, I dreamed of a window seat... occasionally could swap seats.
It was a long time before I ended-up in the LH seat of a 747...
Furlough years too, never saw the B-2707s PanAm told me I would fly one day...
Selling used cars, CFI-ing in Learjets, contracts in Jeddah, inviting camels for a dance in the night-clubs.
For a retirement that I never got - (Chapter 7 bankruptcy excuses)...
xxx
With 49 years in the skies, I still fly these old 747s... and often teach old tricks to "PlayStation Graduates"...
Do you think our passengers prefer a 27 years old captain and 300 hrs F/Os...?
And besides... unlike some who use your respectful vocabulary, I do not use the F word.
But thanks for educating me, I reciprocate my best F wishes to you.
May your "gases" be passed by your outflow valve, in a "dry form"...
xxx
Ppruners, my apologies. Had to change "his" diapers, to keep the RH seat clean for decent F/Os...
:)
Happy contrails

raas,

Maybe, but we earned it. Your generation is rightly called the "entitlement" generation. You want everything and you want it right now. Perhaps you should earn it like some of the other Gentlemen here.

Personally, I spent 11.5 years on Active Duty. 3.5 years in the Reserves. I flew the panel on 727s and then sat in the right seat for 7 years.

Your time will come. And then, when YOU decide to work until you're 65, YOU can have young whippersnappers bark at you. Because YOU will be stealing THEIR money.

What goes around, comes around, Son.

If you guys moaning because of delay in upgrade due to this age change, you are really barking up the wrong tree. Maybe you should hope for a bankruptcy, a termination of your defined benifit retirement plan, and 2500 pilots retireing early as they did at Delta. Now that creates movement. Or what you really want is a solid company that has serious expansion plans, that has a secure retirement, that makes it attractive for guys to leave early. Waiting for pilots to retire for you to move up, is not what I would want to hope for.

If a guy (or gal) is able to fly until 65, I certainly don't begrudge the right to do so. He's not taking anything from anyone. Saying otherwise is akin to denying his right to exist.

Does anybody have numbers on how many actually MAKE it to age sixty? Some lose their medicals, others - like me - quit in frustration. My overall (and very unscientific) impression is that most are going to quit well before 65 unless financial circumstances force them to stick around. Also, data on Class One (equivalent) medicals from age 65 countries would be interesting ... how do over 60 pilots fare on these?

BelArgUSA :D I lament every time we lose a "good" experienced captain. Sadly, they may grow progressively harder to come by....

Rotorhead1026 They've just improved the life expectancy of pilots from 62 to 67 (i.e. add 2 years to retirement age) with a slash of the pen. :}

BA 55 Retirement
 

Does anyone know if British Airways still has a contractural age 55 retirement? How many of these folks continue flying in a second job after hanging it up at BA? Some years ago, we used to run into quite a few, flying for Virgin, down at "The Truck" in Narita...always a good time.

Retirement age at BA is now 65 :ok:

Just because you are in the right seat gives you no right to another's job!

BelArgUSA:

As stated above, far fewer of the young 'know-it-alls' will want or be able to afford to retire when they hit age 60 than assume such right now.

Among many other future problems, many will be ordering their required drug prescriptions from Canada in order to afford to keep their First Class medical licenses-or keep their future wife alive with a medical condition which won't be diagnosed for another 20 years. They might think: "What wife? What kids? I'm not married yet!" That's the point.
Mine has type 1 diabetes (diagnosed when she was about 40...) and does a very good job with it.

What will YOUR extra costs be? When you retire, your various benefits are not so good as they were. And remember, the US no longer, or barely qualifies as an "advanced industrial nation" by various measurements.

They can not know for many years what will happen in their lives. Just wait until someone like Hillary really screws up our medical system (and just on the Federal level...not including the other confusing jurisdictions...heard of Katrina's aftermath?).

"Old Fart" words
 

Ign.Override...
xxx
Quite correct, all you mention there. And sad facts too.
I live in Argentina, since 1992 and maybe my salary is quite low, by EU and US standards, but by chance, our 2001-2002 devaluation and banking crisis made prices more realistic. Yet we have 25% unemployment here. And our Peso is tied to the US $ for exchange. Dont need to tell you how expensive (for my pesos) it is to get a cup of expresso on layover in Madrid, paid with €...
xxx
The US economy is in shambles. You might end up with Hillary and spend a few more trillions in "assistance" to Iraq and Afghanistan... Let these idiots kill each other and pray 5 times a day, and go to their sex shops every year in Mecca. You got undocumented aliens in the US... ok, here in Tangoland, we get them too, but from Paraguay and Bolivia...
xxx
Here we got Cristina (also wife of our former president), but I know her personally as she was frequent flyer with us, and surprisingly, So. America of the XXIst century will be quite different. But we are extremely concerned about US politics and its economy. We are making quite a bit of advances with soy based ethanol, to counter the $100 barrel of our camel drivers. When oil dries out, in about 2040, their sands will not permit to grow soybeans...
xxx
We always had the 65 age rule here, so was never a problem. I retire finally in November, but even consider flying a private VIP-727 therafter. I am a widower since 5 years ago, with a son who just turned 18 which I financed for a CPL and a Lear rating a few months ago... now to go for a degree, by chance education basically free here. And a daughter 15 years old... not easy to be a single father with kids. By chance I never had other wives and pay alimonies... but in the US, I went through a personal Chapter 7 and lost it all with PanAm in 1991.
xxx
So I will probably fly until they tell me that I dont even qualify for a Class III medical and my Alzheimer will kick-in to prevent me from closing "bus ties" or attempt to put "essential" on "nº 4 generator" in the 727 when I downgrade myself to be F/E...
xxx
Despite my age, I still try to help the young ones to make it in aviation, and I volunteer (for free) teaching aero-club cadets age 14-18. I even manage to get insulted here in Pprune by these "Geeks" who wish to keep their feet on my O2 mask hose... Sorry if my recommendations to them do not suit them.
xxx
As far as I am concerned, these "Nerds" with fATPL can stick-it into "deep freeze"...
:E
Happy contrails

<<WWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Now I can work another 5 years to make up for all the lost benefits and wage cuts! >>

And that is the key word...you "can" if you want to...but you really don't have to....nothing or nobody forcing you.

When you look in the mirror....you are looking at the only person who can place limits on your success.