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ATP Non-Type vs Type-Rated License: Concerns About Checkride

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ATP Non-Type vs Type-Rated License: Concerns About Checkride

Old 10th Feb 2021, 18:31
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ATP Non-Type vs Type-Rated License: Concerns About Checkride

I know it has been a while since my pilot husband and I last posted in this forum. The pandemic has certainly halted our plans--like the rest of the world's plans. Point being, he is now moving forward in the process of converting his ICAO license. He has passed the ATP written exam and holds a valid ATP-CTP certificate (until 2025). Now he needs either non-type rated or type-rated simulator and checkride. Considering the costs from the popular training centers, obviously the non-type is significantly cheaper. However, the current concern is his ability to pass the checkride in an aircraft that he is unfamiliar with, if he goes with the non-type rated option. He currently flies Airbus 330, so he is much more comfortable and confident flying in the Airbus fleet. Does anyone here on this forum have any insight about the ATP license checkride--i.e. what the examiners quiz the pilots on, what questions are asked during the 'oral exam' of the checkride, etc. My husband certainly doesn't want to risk a 'failed' checkride because he is not fully familiar with the plane he will be flying in, following simulator training hours (which looks like just a meager 10 hours or so for some of these training centers). Maybe it is a better and safer (albeit more expensive) bet to choose the type-rated option with an aircraft that he has flown in the past and that he can easily and more readily familiarize himself with before the checkride. Any feedback and any recommendations about preparation for the checkride would be much appreciated. I hope everyone is safe and healthy out there.
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Old 11th Feb 2021, 14:26
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Your husband doesn't have to do the checkride in a jet simulator. A small piston twin airplane like a Seneca or Seminole will do just fine. Will probably be alot cheaper than a sim ride.
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Old 11th Feb 2021, 17:22
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Option B would be one of the A320 simulator providers like Avenger Flight Group.

Most likely, a typed ATP will have a discussion of memory items, limitations, and an in-depth discussion of systems at the lights/switches level....i.e. "I push this button...what occurs?"

I think the multi crew course for the A320 would run 7-9k, likely cheaper as the demand has plummeted.
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Old 11th Feb 2021, 19:07
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PanAm gave a really good deal on the B777. $9000, with occasional 10% discount.

Thoroughly recommend their instructors and the training. No surprises on the checkride. If you are current on type, I think any Part 142 school would be similar. Self-examining authority, and knowledge of what happens during the check. It’s definitely a few thousand extra, but if it’s what you know already, then sticking with a 330 type-rating (or maybe 320?) definitely makes sense. PM for any more details.

The course consisted of 2 4-hour Sims, plus a 3-hour check-ride.
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Old 11th Feb 2021, 23:03
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Surely an A330 sim and check ride if your rated???

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Old 12th Feb 2021, 19:33
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Originally Posted by Global Aviator View Post
Surely an A330 sim and check ride if your rated???
Just because he is typed on A330 in his ICAO ATPL does not mean he is FAA A330 qualified.

To receive FAA ATP with A330 type rating, he must redo A330 type rating from the scratch in an approved course by FAA.

The cheapest option is to do the ATP check ride in a multi engine piston airplane.
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Old 12th Feb 2021, 22:58
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Originally Posted by lee_apromise View Post
Just because he is typed on A330 in his ICAO ATPL does not mean he is FAA A330 qualified.

To receive FAA ATP with A330 type rating, he must redo A330 type rating from the scratch in an approved course by FAA.

The cheapest option is to do the ATP check ride in a multi engine piston airplane.
You can do an "already experienced" quicker type rating which I think an earlier poster alluded too. I personally would just do the check in a light twin but that's me.
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Old 14th Feb 2021, 14:20
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Thanks to everyone for your responses. We have definitely looked into Pan Am--and also SkyEagle Aviation Academy, where my husband completed his ATP written and received his ATP certificate. Based on our conversations with Pan Am and SkyEagle, it looks like one can receive expedited type-rating training and ATP license for pilots who are already type-rated for that aircraft (on like an ICAO or EASA license). This turns into 4 days in total of commitment for type-rated ATP license--a few days of sim plus checkride. Maybe we have communicated my husband's situation incorrectly to these training centers, but this is what they have explained to us. Climb150 and lee_apromise you are correct, the 'light twin' option is significantly cheaper at these training centers, by almost half price, but my husband's concern is his actual knowledge of these aircrafts--which, currently, he has known. To complete his ATP license on a Seneca or Seminole, should he have the same amount of knowledge on this aircraft as he does for the Airbus fleet that he is currently type-rated for--i.e. limitations, memory items, in-depth discussion of systems, etc, as LandingCheck described for the type-rated oral exam? This, again, is his biggest concern. Does he need that amount of in-depth knowledge of the 'light twin' in order to pass the oral exam during checkride? Thanks again for all of your insight in this matter.
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Old 14th Feb 2021, 17:34
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Am I right in thinking your husband never really flew a light twin during his pilot training? I know in some countries students go straight to the sim after single engine CPL check ride. If this is the case then maybe do the check in the Airbus sim. If your husband did do some light twin flying, they should be fine after a few hours practice. Most places that offer an ATP checkride program build in a few hours practice to prepare for check ride. There isnt really much to learn for a light twin. It's the verbal exam that I would be more concerned about. Your training provider should prepare you for this too.

If after 2 hours in a light twin and your husband doesnt feel confident, just walk away and you are only out of pocket a small amount. Never pay the full amount upfront (unless it's a sim centre).
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 01:14
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I was in the exact same situation as your husband. I converted my EASA license to an FAA one. After the written test I was also considering the options for the checkride. I decided to do a shortened type rating course for the aircraft I had flown for almost 20 years. The advantages are that there are no surprises in the actual checkride and the the oral part is a piece of cake. The Examiner admitted that I knew more about the aircraft than him. From what I’ve heard the oral in a light piston aircraft puts way more emphasis on the general ATP stuff. And who wants to get grilled over Aerodynamics or Meteorology or whatever subject you don’t like? So in the end I’m very happy that I paid a bit more and didn’t have to worry about anything. Needless to say that a jet type might give you an advantage for a possible application to the airlines. Good luck with whatever route your husband is going to take.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 19:38
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Need Light Twin, Non-Type Rated ATP

Hi All.

Does anybody know where I can get a Non-Type Rated ATP Certificate? I just got offered a sweet job that needs the rating for Part 135 people moving ops. They need me as is (CFI/CFII/MEI/TW) for their other ops but I still need ATP for their Light Twin.

I was a Tailwheel instructor in Citabrias. 4 years ago I was drafted into a regional only to find out after completing my ATP-CTP and Written ATM that I was completely out of my depth for the Type Rating on a CRJ 200. It was humbling, to say the least but the Sim instructor gave me some great advice: 'I don't give a sh!t if you can fly the plane. Your stick and rudder skills mean nothing to our airline. Go get a cargo job and then you can come back.' I got my Part 135 CPL checkride in a Caravan, did one peak season and went back to teaching.... then, COVID. I have been ferrying planes for the last couple years, many x-countries coast to coast but few of the planes had glass and auto.

Thanks for your help and advice.
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Old 7th Jun 2022, 15:21
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Try contacting All ATPS they might be able to help.
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Old 12th Jun 2022, 23:54
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Hi AV8RLogan,
I'm not sure if this will help you, but a friend of my husband's was able to get a non type-rated ATP license from this flight school. Flight Training International (FTI). https://ftiratings.com/

I believe he sat in a sim in Colorado. He's an Airbus pilot like my husband was (before moving to the States and now flying the Pterodactyl,commonly known amongst pilots as the 747), so he was able to complete the entire process in an Airbus sim. According to his shared experience, it was a lot less strenuous and the instructor and examiner were looking for less (or perhaps just asking less questions?) from his performance compared to completing the whole process for an ATP type-rated license. I could also be lost in translation right now because you are getting information from a third party (i.e. my husband sharing with me his conversation with his friend).

Either way, I wish you all the best. It was a tough decision for sure on my husband's part--he decided to go with the type-rated license--and he also struggled a bit to get the license. However, it really was worth the headache and stress because the type-rated license opened up the doors for a lot of interview opportunities and job offers and now he's very pleased with the operation he has landed himself in. Good luck!
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 12:31
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Hi IllinoisDavidson,

interesting read, thanks. I‘m in the same situation as your husband‘s friend.
Trying to decide between the airbus non typed course vs. the actual shortened rating course.
Price difference is not a lot, but I‘m just afraid of the oral as I haven’t flown the Airbus in a couple of years other than for the annual EASA sim check.

Anyone else has experience with the FTI Airbus non typed course?
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 20:53
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Originally Posted by McMax View Post
Hi IllinoisDavidson,

interesting read, thanks. I‘m in the same situation as your husband‘s friend.
Trying to decide between the airbus non typed course vs. the actual shortened rating course.
Price difference is not a lot, but I‘m just afraid of the oral as I haven’t flown the Airbus in a couple of years other than for the annual EASA sim check.

Anyone else has experience with the FTI Airbus non typed course?
Hi McMax,

I have direct experience with FTI and their non-typed ATP course from earlier this year. You have the option of doing it on the A320, B737NG or the B757/767. If you have jet transport time and experience on type (whether current or not), you'll be more than fine. The school does advise that the training is condensed and the program is tailored for military and/or experienced ICAO-licensed jet transport individuals. The school provides all training materials (FCOM, FCTM, Profiles) via an app that is only compatible with an IPad. There are a series of computer based training videos, covering everything from weather to systems, that will also need to be completed prior to arrival for training.

Prior to arrival, ensure you know your systems, memory items, cockpit flows and all limitations as the ground school is very cursory and just answers any questions you may have about a system sequence you didn't quite understand. It's 3 to 4 sim sessions inclusive of the checkride. The oral is standard; not too in depth, but still not to be under estimated. Just take it as your regular type-rated oral.

The actual sim sessions are condensed and you are expected to know all flows prior to arrival in the sim. The 2-3 sim sessions just gets you familiar and proficient with the entire profile for the checkride. Sim checks are also conducted by approved in-house check airman. It's not as pedantic as a regular type-rated checkride, but still a checkride.

Hope this info helps. Feel free to PM me if you need.


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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 14:09
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Hi BWEEpilot,

Many thanks for your reply, that helps a lot.

Does it make sense to throw the extra $2000-$3000 in and get the rating in your opinion?
Sounds that the amount of studying and preparation is about the same.

Regarding the regular type-rated oral: hard to gauge if you‘ve never done an oral as it’s not part of the EASA world.
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Old 24th Aug 2022, 02:22
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Originally Posted by McMax View Post
Hi BWEEpilot,

Many thanks for your reply, that helps a lot.

Does it make sense to throw the extra $2000-$3000 in and get the rating in your opinion?
Sounds that the amount of studying and preparation is about the same.

Regarding the regular type-rated oral: hard to gauge if you‘ve never done an oral as it’s not part of the EASA world.
That depends on your situation. If you have a pending green card or work authorization; you're wasting money on getting typed when the airlines will gladly do that for you if your plan is to remain in the US. The oral is systems based coupled with memory items and limitations. There's a very thorough video on Youtube titled "A320 United Oral Prep". It's an exhaustingly long video, but it gives a good idea of what an oral is like. That particular video is extremely intense; your actual ATP oral will probably be a fraction of that with respect to depth of knowledge required.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 14:26
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Hi guys,

is there a specific name for the practical FAA ATPL check if you have prior experience on type on your EASA ATPL?

CAE Dubai is labelling it as FAA upgrade course and wants to do it as a standalone course.
One US based training provider is offering it as a combined EASA recurrent/FAA initial.

Dubai would be my preferred option but I‘m not 100% convinced they offered me the right course?

thanks
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Old 19th Dec 2022, 15:57
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Dear All

Im in a very similar situation, and I was wondering for information about academies, I had contact FTi and Alliance Aviation the money difference seems like Alliance is a bit cheaper but both look very similar when it comes to price around 12k to 13k to get an ATP/CTP course and then the checkride with the type included.

Doesn anybody have any info on them like if one is better than the other?

regards
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Old 21st Dec 2022, 19:39
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Hi Flyfurby,

as you say, I think they are all very similar.
I’ll give you an update mid January after my ATP-CTP course with AA.

planning on doing the practical incl type on a separate occasion.
what type are you going for?

i made my final decision based on the available dates that suited me best.
so far a good experience, communication has been excellent and they have been very helpful all around!
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