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Another US Start-Up Airline ?

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Another US Start-Up Airline ?

Old 24th Oct 2019, 21:43
  #61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
Regional wages + 20%, ooooffff thats going to be tough to get guys in the current market.
havick,

Yes, that bit of information creates more questions than it answers. A 14/14 schedule ? That's tough sledding even with home basing. Maybe it's ok for a B747 cargo outfit but for a fledgling start up ? I dunno. I'll just predict he gets all the pilots he needs regardless.

Fun to watch in any event.

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Old 25th Oct 2019, 00:08
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
havick,

Yes, that bit of information creates more questions than it answers. A 14/14 schedule ? That's tough sledding even with home basing. Maybe it's ok for a B747 cargo outfit but for a fledgling start up ? I dunno. I'll just predict he gets all the pilots he needs regardless.

Fun to watch in any event.
he will get takers for sure.

I just wonder whether his budget allows for the massive training bill he is going to have due to turnover.

I think heís serious out misjudging the pilot market and is out of touch thinking itís the same as when he kicked off JetBlue.
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Old 25th Oct 2019, 09:24
  #63 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by havick View Post


he will get takers for sure.

I just wonder whether his budget allows for the massive training bill he is going to have due to turnover.

I think heís serious out misjudging the pilot market and is out of touch thinking itís the same as when he kicked off JetBlue.
havick,

Yep, lots of issues to be resolved. So far, I haven't seen anything about their pilot recruiting that's "innovative" as promised early on in the emergence of Moxy as a concept. Perhaps I've missed something ?

"...regional+ 20%..." ? What does that mean ? I suppose you could look at JB's 1st year pay rates on the E190 for a comparison but I don't see a start up paying even those rates.
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Old 26th Oct 2019, 07:47
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
havick,

Yep, lots of issues to be resolved. So far, I haven't seen anything about their pilot recruiting that's "innovative" as promised early on in the emergence of Moxy as a concept. Perhaps I've missed something ?

"...regional+ 20%..." ? What does that mean ? I suppose you could look at JB's 1st year pay rates on the E190 for a comparison but I don't see a start up paying even those rates.
If you take it literally then it would be expressjet/skywest/compass/Envoy rates + 20%. So basically junk rates. I guess see how it actually pans out.
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Old 26th Oct 2019, 15:23
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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So what type of pilot leaves their stable current regional job or corp job to go to a start up for a 20% pay rise? It appears this factor is not costed into the pay rate.

Last edited by Professional Amateur; 21st Nov 2019 at 12:40.
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Old 26th Oct 2019, 16:33
  #66 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Professional Amateur View Post
So what type of pilot leaves thier stable current regional job or corp job to go to a start up for a 20% pay rise?
PA,

Hard to say for sure. They'd have to be willing to roll the dice on it becoming something bigger and better down the road. Risk/reward and all that.

Time will tell who shows up...probably more willing people than one would imagine based on Neeleman's track record. The younger and more footloose a person is the more risk he can take because he'd have time to recover from a failure of the experiment.

The critical group will be the captains as their experience will be needed from the start.

The recruiting ads will be interesting...
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 22:43
  #67 (permalink)  
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What is this ? Avatar Airlines ? 747s ? They seem to have a bunch of management people lined up for whatever that means:

https://avatarairlines.com/
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 10:38
  #68 (permalink)  
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Should have figured this out. I thought the concept sounded familiar...pretty entertaining but never say die:

"Nevada-based Avatar was originally incorporated as Family Airlines in 2004, and adopted its current name nearly about a decade ago."


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...us-747-462457/
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 21:05
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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I looks very ambitious. I wonder why so many people wants to get in the airline business. It is such a ruinous business, so many fail.
If they sell well pax and cargo they may succeed.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:21
  #70 (permalink)  
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Is Neeleman tipping his hand on the Moxy project ?

“Breeze Aviation will locate their corporate headquarters in Salt Lake, Utah. The company plans to create 369 jobs in the next five years.

Breeze Aviation plans to unveil an as-yet-unnamed low-cost carrier in the new year which will provide flyers with convenient non-stop service from secondary airports.

The company was founded by David Neeleman…”

https://www.areadevelopment.com/news...ake-utah.shtml
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Old 26th Dec 2019, 15:42
  #71 (permalink)  
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World Wings Airways ? Listed as a concept airline founded in 2016 but they're now advertising for A320 F/Os. I can't tell if this is just a renamed version of an earlier concept airline...Airbahn perhaps ?:

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/10720.html

https://worldwingsairways.com/

https://gust.com/companies/world-wings-airways
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Old 26th Dec 2019, 19:09
  #72 (permalink)  
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Perhaps it's not Airbahn ? Here's some bio on the guy behind it, Mike Moghrabi:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-moghrabi-11707a20
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 02:40
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Neelman has something to prove, in a good way, not and FU way. If you want to listen to a great, "how I built this" click on his. I'm sure others have posted this many times, but I'll say it again, I wouldn't bet against him and his projects.
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 17:49
  #74 (permalink)  
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A few pilot-related comments from Neeleman re Breeze (Moxy). Still no specifics but rather hints without details. In post #11 in this thread, Neeleman promised "innovative approaches" to recruiting pilots. So far, he''s said nothing about pilot recruiting I find innovative.

Not sure what that last statement means: "procedures" that attract pilots ?:



I asked you last time about the biggest concern you had with launching a new airline, you said it was addressing the pilot shortage. How do you solve this with Breeze?


We are hiring pilots and we are going to create a great bunch of work, so people are going to love flying for us.

It’s always going to be a battle, but we have our own unique plans to create our own pilots as well.

There’s a lot of pilots out there that are great but need to accumulate up to 1500 hours and we are going to help them do that.


You are going to raid the regional airlines out there for pilots and American Airlines, who is getting rid of its Embraer E190s?


A lot of the regional pilots already have the type rating on the airplane, we can create attractive schedules for their quality of life which is what they care about. After you get to captain and seniority, they will be able to go to the A220s.


We have a lot of attractive procedures that we believe will attract a lot of pilots.

https://airwaysmag.com/interview/david-neeleman-breeze/

Last edited by bafanguy; 9th Feb 2020 at 18:01.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 08:54
  #75 (permalink)  
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A few more details about Breeze. Still no details about what they consider competitive qualifications:


“Acknowledging the worldwide shortage of pilots, Neeleman said he had no concerns about finding enough crew for the new venture.”

"Further details can be found on the Breeze Airways recruitment microsite." [last sentence in linked article]

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2...d-other-staff/
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 10:25
  #76 (permalink)  
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I guess this is sort of a start up. Looks like they bought the XTRA Airways AOC and plan to turn it into something bigger ?:

"The company, operating as Houston Air Holdings Inc., is 'getting ready to spool up to transform this little charter airline we bought,' Andrew Levy said in an interview Wednesday."

:Levy left United Airlines Holdings Inc. in May 2018 to work on forming a startup airline. Three months later, he purchased XTRA Airways Inc., a Florida-based charter carrier. XTRA’s parent had sold most of its fleet to Swift Air, but kept one Boeing 737-400 to retain its Part 121 commercial airline certification."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...up-u-s-airline
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 10:49
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
I guess this is sort of a start up. Looks like they bought the XTRA Airways AOC and plan to turn it into something bigger ?:

"The company, operating as Houston Air Holdings Inc., is 'getting ready to spool up to transform this little charter airline we bought,' Andrew Levy said in an interview Wednesday."

:Levy left United Airlines Holdings Inc. in May 2018 to work on forming a startup airline. Three months later, he purchased XTRA Airways Inc., a Florida-based charter carrier. XTRAís parent had sold most of its fleet to Swift Air, but kept one Boeing 737-400 to retain its Part 121 commercial airline certification."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...up-u-s-airline
I was deadheading on a flight just over a year ago, and the lady sitting next to me was one of the management team members that is putting this thing together. At the time, she said the plan was to get 737MAXs, but it looks like it will be 737-800s. She was one of the founders of JetBlue and long time management of Southwest. She said this new company would be the next southwest, flying point to point, using secondary airports if possible. I asked her how that was different than Moxy and Allegiant, and she said they were going to be leading edge with technology, but it looks like Moxy/Breeze says they will be leading edge with technology. So, who knows.

At least it isnít Avatar Airlines.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 12:04
  #78 (permalink)  
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Z,

Did the woman say what XTRA had been doing with that one airplane ?
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 23:21
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
Z,

Did the woman say what XTRA had been doing with that one airplane ?
They have to keep one airplane on the certificate to keep the certificate active.
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Old 15th Feb 2020, 08:46
  #80 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by zondaracer View Post
They have to keep one airplane on the certificate to keep the certificate active.

Z,

Understand. So they must be flying the occasional charter rather than letting the airplane sit and deteriorate ?
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