Direct entry F/O in major US airlines

[Flykri]

Hi guys,

currently holding an EASA ATPL(A) with DHC8 type rating. 1100h as PIC and 6000h+ totals.

I was wondering what was the probability of directly entering a US Major from an european airline.

If the chance is close to zero, I'll avoid wasting my time converting my licence to a FAA.

Thanks in advance.

[Sthan]

direct on US airlines??

Hi,
EASA license supposed to the greatest thing, but it's not.
You can't, you have to start as F/O in a regional airline.

Originally Posted by Flykri

Hi guys,

currently holding an EASA ATPL(A) with DHC8 type rating. 1100h as PIC and 6000h+ totals.

I was wondering what was the probability of directly entering a US Major from an european airline.

If the chance is close to zero, I'll avoid wasting my time converting my licence to a FAA.

Thanks in advance.

[zondaracer]

If you have the right to work, a university degree, and internal recommendations, community volunteer activity, and maybe attend a job fair, you have a chance at getting hired at a major. No right to work, don't bother.

You have enough flying experience, so that's not the issue.

[Flykri]

Reading back my post, it might not be detailed enough.

Flew

- the ERJ135/145 as F/O 1400h+
- the 737CL & NG as FO 4550h+
- now the DH8D as CPT 1100h+

Would that make a difference?

[MichaelBluth]

Plenty of experience/time to be hired by a major. Do you have a four year degree? There are no guarantees, but you are in the ballpark.
Any black marks? Failed training etc?

[Flykri]

Originally Posted by zondaracer

If you have the right to work, a university degree, and internal recommendations, community volunteer activity, and maybe attend a job fair, you have a chance at getting hired at a major. No right to work, don't bother.

Right to work? Job fair?

Did my best to find many info but the US still look nebulous to me compared to EU concerning working environment.

[Flykri]

Originally Posted by MichaelBluth

Do you have a four year degree?

No, I joined my current airline at the age of 22. I'm now 32.

Originally Posted by MichaelBluth

Any black marks? Failed training etc?

Nothing

[havick]

Originally Posted by Flykri

Right to work? Job fair?

Did my best to find many info but the US still look nebulous to me compared to EU concerning working environment.

In other words do you have a green card or able to get one through family? Or are you already a US citizen?

[zondaracer]

If you don't have a 4 year university degree and you are not a US citizen or you don't have a green card, you won't get hired at a US Major at this time.

If you had the green card or citizenship, you would have a very steep uphill path to get hired at a major. Without a degree: Regionals no problem, ULCCs and ACMI maybe.

I've seen guys with less flying experience get hired at the US majors, but they place a lot of emphasis on other things here in the US. They have a set profile that they look for.

[UAL777]

As long as you have a green card, you have a chance. I got hired with United with no college degree even though 95 percent do have a degree. Hawaiian, American, JetBlue, Spirit and Atlas all hire without degrees even though it's a small percentage. I got hired with United from Qatar Airways, although I'm an American. If I were you, I would stay in Europe because airlines in the U.S suck. There is no real pension and the pay is poor if you factor in income tax.

[tume]

Originally Posted by UAL777

If I were you, I would stay in Europe because airlines in the U.S suck. There is no real pension and the pay is poor if you factor in income tax.

You mean, the income tax that is generally much lower than in Europe?

[bafanguy]

"If I were you, I would stay in Europe because airlines in the U.S suck."


UAL777,

So you're just at UAL until something better comes along ? ;-))

Best wishes in the hunt.

[zondaracer]

UAL has no pension but that 16% direct contribution into the 401K must not be bad...

[bafanguy]

Z,

Does UAL perhaps have a defined contribution pension plan ?:

"The most popular defined-contribution plan option is the 401(k), accounting for more than two-thirds of the defined-contribution plan total."

Defined-Contribution Plan Definition | Investopedia

I wouldn't put too much confidence in any promise of a defined benefit pension plan.

[UAL777]

At United, we don't have a defined retirement plan anymore. That was taken away in bankruptcy. We do have 16% contributed into a fund annually that compounds over time. I pay over 40% income tax including city, state, federal taxes. Then there is property tax on my house and the usual taxes on merchandise. Atleast in Europe, you get a real pension when you retire if I'm not mistaken. All in all, I'm happy and can't complain. United is where I will retire so I'm not chasing any other job.

[bafanguy]

UAL777,

Yes, UAL doesn't have a "defined benefit" retirement plan any longer:

Defined-Benefit Plan Definition | Investopedia

Neither does DL. They have a plan similar to what you describe and it's defined in the PWA. Currently a 15% contribution by the company going to 16% in the near future (IIUC, the pilot can add to the contribution if he wants but doesn't have to...the wise ones will).

In a way, this is better as the money is IN YOUR NAME vs the company's promise to pay from the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow...someday. This can be terminated in BK as it was for DL, UAL and USAir (not sure about AA).


You never want to be entangled with the PBGC...trust me.

This will work particularly well for you young guys who have an entire career to work the system...and especially at this point in history with huge retirements allowing you to move up the equipment ladder more rapidly thereby making that 16% a larger $ number...when you most need it to be large.

By the way, if US airlines "suck" (a rather broad statement) compared to those in the EU, what is the pension arrangement in the EU airlines ? Private, some government scheme or a hybrid ? As you know, we have Social Security here but I'd never consider it part of anything cooked up by a private company.

[g-code]

Originally Posted by UAL777

At United, we don't have a defined retirement plan anymore. That was taken away in bankruptcy. We do have 16% contributed into a fund annually that compounds over time. I pay over 40% income tax including city, state, federal taxes. Then there is property tax on my house and the usual taxes on merchandise. Atleast in Europe, you get a real pension when you retire if I'm not mistaken. All in all, I'm happy and can't complain. United is where I will retire so I'm not chasing any other job.

If you're paying 40% you're doing it wrong.

[jsfboat]

I'm in the US, flying for a 121 Charter airline and the state of the airlines in the US sucks, don't get me wrong, I'd love to be at American, United, Delta, FedEx, UPS, but my lack of a degree and 121 PIC isn't going to make it happen. I have German residency and I'm looking to convert my ATP and go to Europe. The regionals are giving out bonuses so that when the demand for pilots dies down (due to economy or whatever other factors) they're not stuck with higher pay scales. Do you really want to come over here and be willing to live off of $1500/month after taxes? I did it for 3 years in a row (I barely flew so I wasn't breaking guarantee or getting per diem). Just saying.

[bafanguy]

"I have German residency and I'm looking to convert my ATP and go to Europe."

jsfboat,

You're fortunate to have an option most of your American compatriots lack: the legal ability to live/work in more than one country.

The US Part 121 supplementals have never been the career equal of the legacy pax & freight carriers you mention. That's NOT to disparage those who fly supplemental work. It's a tough way to earn a living. I know because I began my career that way.

Just to educate those who wonder, but don't know, about how the EU option would be better than your prospects here, can you explain how a person would be better off moving back there as you're planning to do ?

[HEMS driver]

Having a college degree, doing volunteer work, and the other silly requirements, have nothing to do with being a competent and safe airline pilot, but U.S. airlines still whine about the "pilot shortage."