US Legacy Age 65 Retirements
Thread Starter
misd-,
Ahhh so...I feel your pain. The absolute last thing you want is to wake some morning and find out the PBGC has anything whatsoever to do with your pension.
Ahhh so...I feel your pain. The absolute last thing you want is to wake some morning and find out the PBGC has anything whatsoever to do with your pension.
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misd-,
It's only a guess but I'd say that the early-outs at DL are likely former NW people. They have their original DB retirement plan in effect...the widgetheads don't. That might influence a person's "attitude".
The AA people have the 100% lump sum option, IIRC. Sure wish I'd had that...we tried many years ago but couldn't get it. Oh well...
It's only a guess but I'd say that the early-outs at DL are likely former NW people. They have their original DB retirement plan in effect...the widgetheads don't. That might influence a person's "attitude".
The AA people have the 100% lump sum option, IIRC. Sure wish I'd had that...we tried many years ago but couldn't get it. Oh well...
A common misperception. The NWA pilots had their DB plan frozen in the mid-2000s. Very few these days eligible to retire have a large benefit.
Nu
Thread Starter
Nu,
I'm familiar with frozen pension plans; DL froze the non-contract employee pensions in 2005 but they still have one.
But, the NW pilots didn't have their DB plan terminated in BK and turned over the the PBGC, IIUC. This would make their situation VERY different and likely preferable to what happened to DL pilots. We'll never get our full earned pension. The damage ranges from relatively unaffected (those already long retired) to getting absolutely NOTHING from PBGC...and every point on the scale between.
We're suing PBGC to correct their errors but frankly, our chances are pretty slim. However, I'm in the game to the end or until I croak. Hard to tell which'll happen first ! The USAir pilots didn't prevail, so...
Any way, that's kinda off in the weeds to most of the world, I guess. :-)
I'm familiar with frozen pension plans; DL froze the non-contract employee pensions in 2005 but they still have one.
But, the NW pilots didn't have their DB plan terminated in BK and turned over the the PBGC, IIUC. This would make their situation VERY different and likely preferable to what happened to DL pilots. We'll never get our full earned pension. The damage ranges from relatively unaffected (those already long retired) to getting absolutely NOTHING from PBGC...and every point on the scale between.
We're suing PBGC to correct their errors but frankly, our chances are pretty slim. However, I'm in the game to the end or until I croak. Hard to tell which'll happen first ! The USAir pilots didn't prevail, so...
Any way, that's kinda off in the weeds to most of the world, I guess. :-)
Last edited by bafanguy; 4th May 2016 at 11:28.
Thread Starter
Getting back to the US legacies and their attrition replacement efforts, Delta is putting on its OWN pilot career fair at the HQ (3rd party organizations have been doing this stuff for a long time here). Approximately 1000 attendee tickets were available for the 2 day event in KATL. It appears those tickets evaporated in short order. No surprise there.
The plan is for attendees to get some face time with a Delta "recruiter" to learn about how to become a Delta pilot. Not sure where these "meetings" are supposed to lead a person...nor am I sure just what a "recruiter" is: HR types...retired pilots...current pilots...management types ?
How many recruiters will be on hand there to interact...in any productive way...with 500 eager hopefuls for a few hours a day ? How much time per attendee ? What do attendees get for their efforts ?
Delta doesn't have enough apps on file ?
Delta can't be soliciting applications. airlineapps.com and the internet have taken care of that.
It's just a bit puzzling...and NO...there isn't any pilot "shortage" here.
https://www.facebook.com/deltapilotr...MELINE&fref=nf
[Insert innuendo, speculation, rumor, supposition, half truth, WAGs, crew lounge truth and urban legend here...........]
I've only provided facts and questions.
The plan is for attendees to get some face time with a Delta "recruiter" to learn about how to become a Delta pilot. Not sure where these "meetings" are supposed to lead a person...nor am I sure just what a "recruiter" is: HR types...retired pilots...current pilots...management types ?
How many recruiters will be on hand there to interact...in any productive way...with 500 eager hopefuls for a few hours a day ? How much time per attendee ? What do attendees get for their efforts ?
Delta doesn't have enough apps on file ?
Delta can't be soliciting applications. airlineapps.com and the internet have taken care of that.
It's just a bit puzzling...and NO...there isn't any pilot "shortage" here.
https://www.facebook.com/deltapilotr...MELINE&fref=nf
[Insert innuendo, speculation, rumor, supposition, half truth, WAGs, crew lounge truth and urban legend here...........]
I've only provided facts and questions.
Last edited by bafanguy; 16th Sep 2016 at 21:21.
Thread Starter
Why is Delta doing this ? Have you seen this program advertised anyplace in the av media ? I haven't...but I don't see everything.
How big a market is there for this $5K/per exercise..to a multi-billion dollar airline ? The US regionals are already providing this program in-house...for free to new hires...cuz they HAVE to.
Why does one of the most desirable career destination carriers do something like this ?
Any thoughts ?
“While this is not a class to become a new hire pilot at Delta, it can be used by pilots looking to eventually be hired by any airline,” said Jon Tovani, Delta’s Managing Director of Pilot Training.
Yep...likely isn't a "...class to become a new hire pilot at Delta..." but how about AFTER you become a new hire pilot at Delta ?
New pilot certification program available through Delta | Delta News Hub
How big a market is there for this $5K/per exercise..to a multi-billion dollar airline ? The US regionals are already providing this program in-house...for free to new hires...cuz they HAVE to.
Why does one of the most desirable career destination carriers do something like this ?
Any thoughts ?
“While this is not a class to become a new hire pilot at Delta, it can be used by pilots looking to eventually be hired by any airline,” said Jon Tovani, Delta’s Managing Director of Pilot Training.
Yep...likely isn't a "...class to become a new hire pilot at Delta..." but how about AFTER you become a new hire pilot at Delta ?
New pilot certification program available through Delta | Delta News Hub
Thread Starter
Not much new going on here with US legacy hiring. They're hiring but appear to be slowing down a bit.
I do know DL doesn't seem to be interviewing as many so far this year as recent previous years...and hiring a smaller percentage of those interviewed.
From another forum, a guy who runs a pilot prep website hosting a job fair made an interesting statement in post #25 with no explanation given. I assume given the nature of his company, his statement is accurate. I have no idea why UAL would completely stop hiring:
"Since United is not currently hiring, they will not be meeting with candidates."
https://forums.jetcareers.com/thread...b-fair.253436/
As for AA, while I don't have access to current info, anecdotally, they are hiring from regional flows and not so much from the street.
Any info you may have from an authoritative source would be appreciated.
I do know DL doesn't seem to be interviewing as many so far this year as recent previous years...and hiring a smaller percentage of those interviewed.
From another forum, a guy who runs a pilot prep website hosting a job fair made an interesting statement in post #25 with no explanation given. I assume given the nature of his company, his statement is accurate. I have no idea why UAL would completely stop hiring:
"Since United is not currently hiring, they will not be meeting with candidates."
https://forums.jetcareers.com/thread...b-fair.253436/
As for AA, while I don't have access to current info, anecdotally, they are hiring from regional flows and not so much from the street.
Any info you may have from an authoritative source would be appreciated.
Thread Starter
This is interesting. Looks like FedEx is trying to discourage early pilot retirements ?:
"The delivery service wants to keep retirement-age pilots on the job with special incentives."
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...etiring-report
"The delivery service wants to keep retirement-age pilots on the job with special incentives."
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...etiring-report
Thread Starter
Well, can't say I understand this one. SWA is a definite career-destination airline despite their comparatively slow seat movement versus other similar carriers. They aren't exactly hurting for applicants.
I don't see any regional component to this but expect there might be the tickets-CFI-regional-mainline route to this. Time will tell. It's apparently not a guarantee of a job:
"...ultimately can apply as first officers..."
https://atwonline.com/training/south...+Daily+News%29
I don't see any regional component to this but expect there might be the tickets-CFI-regional-mainline route to this. Time will tell. It's apparently not a guarantee of a job:
"...ultimately can apply as first officers..."
https://atwonline.com/training/south...+Daily+News%29
Last edited by bafanguy; 1st Aug 2019 at 23:36.
Thread Starter
A bit more detail on SWA/CAE but still lacking details:
"The program, named Destination 225°, which on a compass rose points in a southwesterly direction, is designed to provide a flow of new pilots from CAE to Jet Linx, who can then move to Southwest."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#6f8f349e1d0b
"The program, named Destination 225°, which on a compass rose points in a southwesterly direction, is designed to provide a flow of new pilots from CAE to Jet Linx, who can then move to Southwest."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#6f8f349e1d0b
A bit more detail on SWA/CAE but still lacking details:
"The program, named Destination 225°, which on a compass rose points in a southwesterly direction, is designed to provide a flow of new pilots from CAE to Jet Linx, who can then move to Southwest."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#6f8f349e1d0b
"The program, named Destination 225°, which on a compass rose points in a southwesterly direction, is designed to provide a flow of new pilots from CAE to Jet Linx, who can then move to Southwest."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#6f8f349e1d0b
Thread Starter
Details of the SWA Destination 225 deal are coming out. Applicants pay for all training. Looks a bit like DL's Propel program but as I read down through the various non-CFI levels of the "partner" companies, I don't see an actual regional airline but a few Part 135 operators which supports havick's statement above:
https://careers.southwestair.com/d225?utm_source=community&utm_campaign=OBAP2019
https://careers.southwestair.com/d225?utm_source=community&utm_campaign=OBAP2019
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Thread Starter
VH DSJ,
It's easy to value experience when you have legions of those very experienced pilots storming the front gate trying to get in. That's what makes their little Destination 225 program so puzzling. How experienced will those coming from that pipeline be ? As experienced as the present legions ? I guess we'll see...in about 10 years. Well, maybe you'll see...not sure I will.
It's easy to value experience when you have legions of those very experienced pilots storming the front gate trying to get in. That's what makes their little Destination 225 program so puzzling. How experienced will those coming from that pipeline be ? As experienced as the present legions ? I guess we'll see...in about 10 years. Well, maybe you'll see...not sure I will.
FIFY
The statistics clearly refute your statement.
Thread Starter
Latest AA age 65 retirements. 2025 appears to be top of the curve:
Projected Retirements for 2020 - 2040
(Projections based on active pilots turning 65 in the given year.)
Roster Data Updated on: 1/27/2020
Year Total
01/29/2020 - 12/31/2020 654
01/01/2021 - 12/31/2021 781
01/01/2022 - 12/31/2022 820
01/01/2023 - 12/31/2023 921
01/01/2024 - 12/31/2024 915
01/01/2025 - 12/31/2025 945
01/01/2026 - 12/31/2026 906
01/01/2027 - 12/31/2027 773
01/01/2028 - 12/31/2028 689
01/01/2029 - 12/31/2029 646
01/01/2030 - 12/31/2030 568
01/01/2031 - 12/31/2031 583
01/01/2032 - 12/31/2032 522
01/01/2033 - 12/31/2033 496
01/01/2034 - 12/31/2034 431
01/01/2035 - 12/31/2035 389
01/01/2036 - 12/31/2036 302
01/01/2037 - 12/31/2037 253
01/01/2038 - 12/31/2038 262
01/01/2039 - 12/31/2039 246
01/01/2040 - 12/31/2040 248
Projected Retirements for 2020 - 2040
(Projections based on active pilots turning 65 in the given year.)
Roster Data Updated on: 1/27/2020
Year Total
01/29/2020 - 12/31/2020 654
01/01/2021 - 12/31/2021 781
01/01/2022 - 12/31/2022 820
01/01/2023 - 12/31/2023 921
01/01/2024 - 12/31/2024 915
01/01/2025 - 12/31/2025 945
01/01/2026 - 12/31/2026 906
01/01/2027 - 12/31/2027 773
01/01/2028 - 12/31/2028 689
01/01/2029 - 12/31/2029 646
01/01/2030 - 12/31/2030 568
01/01/2031 - 12/31/2031 583
01/01/2032 - 12/31/2032 522
01/01/2033 - 12/31/2033 496
01/01/2034 - 12/31/2034 431
01/01/2035 - 12/31/2035 389
01/01/2036 - 12/31/2036 302
01/01/2037 - 12/31/2037 253
01/01/2038 - 12/31/2038 262
01/01/2039 - 12/31/2039 246
01/01/2040 - 12/31/2040 248
Thread Starter
Delta announcement. Hope that mandatory pilot retirements will make this short lived:
"Instituting a company-wide hiring freeze and offering voluntary leave options"
https://news.delta.com/delta-actions...mpact-covid-19
"Instituting a company-wide hiring freeze and offering voluntary leave options"
https://news.delta.com/delta-actions...mpact-covid-19
