ICAO ATPL to FAA ATP

[Pulkdahulk]

Hi,

I have been trying my best to find an answer of how to go about this conversion.

I did my flying from the US and acquired FAA CPL SE & ME with IR. Additionally, I have a current FAA CFI, CFII and MEI rating too.

I went back to India in 2011 and flew here. Since then I have gotten my DGCA CPL with a type on the Boeing aircraft

a) How can I convert my foreign ATPL to FAA ATP, when I already have a US License in the FUTURE. I did my FAA ATP written in 2011, which has expired (2 years validity)
b) The FAA ATP Rules are changing post 1st Aug 2014, what will be the new requirement post that for the above process.
c) What are the different options of going about the conversion that I am not aware of.
i) Does a type rating specific FAA ATP issued be an option or
ii) A General FAA ATP issued lets say by flying on a smaller general aviation airplane be an option post 1st Aug 2014 Rules.

Since the New Laws of FAA ATP acquisition is super expensive (roughly 15K-20k USD) post 1st Aug 2014, a decision has to made of what are the options I may have.

Please advise

Thank you

[MarkerInbound]

a. There is no conversion of foreign licenses to FAA certificates above the private level (except one issued by Transport Canada). Since you already hold a FAA commercial your foreign license is irrelevant.

b. Since there is no process there is nothing to change.

c. The only way to get a FAA ATP (except the TC conversion) has always been to pass the written and the checkride. In order to do the checkride in an aircraft requiring a type rating you would also have to undergo a training program in that type aircraft and have a record of training and an instructor's sign off that you are ready for the checkride.

I don't know where you found the price for an ATP training program, I haven't seen any published yet. Given that you can get a B-737 type for under $9000 and the ATP training program requires much less time I'd think they would be much less.

If you think you will be able to do a FAA checkride in the next two years complete the written before 1 August.

[Pulkdahulk]

Thanks,

That works. Will appear for the ATP immediately.

The cost of 15K-20K USD is the AOPA published report for post 1st Aug 2014 - the mention of doing a 6 hour level C and 4 hours in a Level 4 FTD plus the 30 hours ground class for the ATP written sign off

[MarkerInbound]

AOPA has a vested interest in saying the new rule will be bad because it will put the 61 and 141 schools out of the ATP market. I think market forces will bring the price down to the 737 level.

[Rotorhead1026]

Originally Posted by Pulkdahulk

I went back to India in 2011 and flew here. Since then I have gotten my DGCA CPL with a type on the Boeing aircraft

Originally Posted by Pulkdahulk

the mention of doing a 6 hour level C and 4 hours in a Level 4 FTD plus the 30 hours ground class for the ATP written sign off

Passing the ATP written before 1 August is the most efficient solution. However, your DGCA type may well fulfill the simulator requirement for the new rule, even though it's on a foreign license - if done at a facility that has an FAA approval. Did you save your training records? Where did you train? How much sim time did you get? It'll be hard to get an answer out of FAA for awhile, but I suspect you may already meet the requirement. Unfortunately, I don't have the new rule in front of me right now.

[MarkerInbound]

However, your DGCA type may well fulfill the simulator requirement for the new rule, even though it's on a foreign license - if done at a facility that has an FAA approval.

Good luck on that. 61.156 says to take the knowledge test after 31 July you have to present a graduation certificate stating you have completed "the following training in a course approved by the Administrator." It's not just any random 10 hours of sim time but part of the approved ATP CTP.

[Rotorhead1026]

<Finally got to look at the rule> ... Yup, I see no wiggle room at all. Even if you had a Boeing type rating on your FAA commercial certificate, you'd still have to take the training (in a specific approved program) to take the written after August 1st. People have been saying that there will have to be some rule modifications - and I agree - but don't hold your breath.

eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations

[SkySurfin]

Thanks for the information so far.

I hold a NZ ATPL with 777 and 737 ratings which i hope to put on a FAA ATPL. I am sitting the FAA ATP written test next month, so before the cutoff.

Id be interested to hear peoples thoughts on whether i can get my 777 and 737 rating added to my FAA ATP without requiring sims in both types. I hold detailed training records of these ratings in FAA/JAA approved simulators but obviously completed on my NZ license.

Lastly if i did my FAA ATP check-ride in a 737/777 sim then i believe that would definitely solve the problem. Can anyone recommend a suitable place to do such a thing?

Cheers

[MarkerInbound]

First do the written before August. Then you may be able to make it work. With a couple "ifs." If you you get the 61.75 "based on" certificate before you do the checkride for the ATP and if you sit the regular FAA IR written you will then have an FAA private with an IR. If you can show the training for your type ratings was conducted by a FAA instructor the types will transfer to your FAA private certificate. Then when you take the ATP the types will transfer to the ATP without a checkride.

There are several places where you can do the 737 rating for ~ $8000. The 777 is going to be higher, not as many places do the training so no competition.

[Rotorhead1026]

Not so much an FAA "instructor", but an FAA approved program, I think. Getting that documented after the fact might be difficult. It sounds highly irregular, but I'm not an expert. Most of the larger sim outfits overseas have some FAA certifications ( I see your sim (s) are FAA approved - that's a good sign), and I'm guessing a NZ approved program would be at least similar to a Part 142 type rating program. If your simulator provider has some FAA programs, I'd ask the person who handles FAA stuff your question. He'll at least know who in Oke City to ask about adding the type ratings, and will certainly know if you can be given an FAA approved training/graduation certificate ex post facto.

The cheap FAA ratings are usually given in 737-200 and -300 sims, so there'd be some adjustment for you. Here's a -200 program ...

http://higherpoweraviation.com/cours...0-type-rating/

and another

http://www.panamacademy.com/boeing-7...aining-courses


It's an interesting question. Marker's path is certainly novel, and just might work if you have the program approvals in hand. Please follow up here with what you find out.

[SkySurfin]

Markerinbound and rotorhead- thankyou for your replies. I will get In touch with our sim department and see if i can get a training record which would support my case to getting the ratings on my FAA license.

I will let you know how i get on.
Cheers

[MarkerInbound]

My "novel" path comes straight out of the FAA's Flight Standards Information System. For some reason the FAA web site won't copy on an ipad so here you go. Notice the requirement for the training by an FAA CFI in the first NOTE. And it looks like I missed a step. Not only to you have to pass the standard IR written test or the Foreign Pilot Instrument test but you also have to pass a standard IR checkride to add the IR to the 61.75 based on cert. Then you get the US TEST PASSED and then there is a way to move the type ratings to a regular ATP. I'll admit I've never heard of anyone doing this and if you walked into most FSDOs proposing this there would be lots of head scratching and phone calls.

Type Rating. When a type rating is shown on the U.S. pilot certificate (meaning a U.S. pilot certificate that was issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license), that aircraft type rating will be limited to “VFR ONLY” if the person has not passed either the IFP knowledge test or the standard instrument rating knowledge test and the standard instrument rating practical test (refer to § 61.65).
NOTE: Applicants who apply for a type rating with the notation “U.S. TEST PASSED” on their U.S. pilot certificate must have received the required training from a holder of an FAA flight instructor certificate with the appropriate ratings (refer to § 61.63(d) or § 61.157(b), as appropriate). If the aircraft type rating is for an aircraft with a gross takeoff weight of greater than 12,500 pounds, the applicant must also complete a background security check administered by the TSA. The reporting requirements of the TSA’s background check is on its Web site at: https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/afsp2/?acct_type=c&section=WN.
NOTE: Once the applicant has qualified for the “U.S. TEST PASSED” rating on a U.S. pilot certificate under § 61.75, the aircraft rating and/or type rating annotated with the notation “U.S. TEST PASSED” is eligible for transfer to an unrestricted U.S. pilot certificate without any further showing of competency or practical test if the applicant later obtains an unrestricted U.S. pilot certificate.

Sorry about the formatting.

[Rotorhead1026]

It LOOKS to me like this was written a long time ago - no mention of sim training or programs, just an FAA CFI. Great information, and I'm sure it's still relevant, but it's unlikely his sim instructor (s) has (had) the FAA rating. If I were trying to pull this off I'd try to show Part 142 approval, but of course there's no mention of that. I've not heard of a type being acquired this way either, but CAE, FlightSafety, PanAm, etc. may have someone who can get him an answer. The process looks more and more daunting. Like you say, any FSDO is going to wind up calling Oklahoma City anyway; might as well contact the right person there to start with.

It is heartening that there is a written process to do this; someone, sometime, must have done it.

[md-100]

I have an ICAO ATP. I want to have a FAA ATP.

1)Can I convert it or I should take the written and practical test?

2)Is there any difference between converting based on a foreign country and taking the FAA written & practical tests?

3) I have type ratings in my ICAO ATP. I did my training in US but under my company training. Can I put my rating in the FAA ATP?

thank you very much

[zondaracer]

md-100

To convert, you must take the knowledge and practical test.

If you get a certificate based on a foreign license, it is only valid for VFR private pilot privileges ONLY (you can add an instrument rating to it), but it won't be good for commercial use.

If you want to put the type ratings, you can but VFR only. If you want the full type rating, you need to go through a type rating course for each type rating. Some training providers may have a reduced type rating course if you are already type rated.

[romeo2die4]

skysurfin, i was in your place in april had atpl icao with boeing 767 type rating the process is simple verify your licencse with the faa then sit for the written exam part 121. pan am academy helped me out got reduced course on the 767 and did my check ride on the 767 and got faa atp with boeing 767 type rating you can do the same on the 777. only thing do the written before july 31st. pm if you need additional details

[romeo2die4]

kysurfin, i was in your place in april had atpl icao with boeing 767 type rating the process is simple verify your licencse with the faa then sit for the written exam part 121. pan am academy helped me out got reduced course on the 767 and did my check ride on the 767 and got faa atp with boeing 767 type rating you can do the same on the 777. only thing do the written before july 31st. pm if you need additional details