Would Like Some Advice
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Would Like Some Advice
Hello All,
So, I would like some advice in how to proceed in getting a Airline Transport Pilot License. I went to a 4 year college and recieved a Degree in Mechanical and Manucaturing Engineering Technology. I have been in the field for about 2 years now and it is not what I thought it was going to be and since it has always been a dream of mine to be a pilot I have finally decided to act on it. It is going to take me a while because I want to get out of debt before I get into more but I want to go on and start and to it little by little.
Anyways, by doing a bit of research I see that I need to do the following (In this order?):
Class 1 Medical Certificate
Private Pilot License
Commercial Pilot Certificate
Instrament Rating
Airline Transport Pilot License
(Correct? I know I am simplifying it)
Now I live in an area where there are only a few options to get training (unless I want to drive an hour and a half). Are there any schools that I should not go to? Meaning, there are some colleges for 'normal' degrees that are not accredited, are there any such schools for Pilots? Then is there a difference betweeen a Airline Transport Pilot License and a Airline Transport Pilot Certificate? I have seen both of them used and I wasnt sure if they were talking about two different items or they were just using the wrong word.
Any advice you can give would be Appreciated
So, I would like some advice in how to proceed in getting a Airline Transport Pilot License. I went to a 4 year college and recieved a Degree in Mechanical and Manucaturing Engineering Technology. I have been in the field for about 2 years now and it is not what I thought it was going to be and since it has always been a dream of mine to be a pilot I have finally decided to act on it. It is going to take me a while because I want to get out of debt before I get into more but I want to go on and start and to it little by little.
Anyways, by doing a bit of research I see that I need to do the following (In this order?):
Class 1 Medical Certificate
Private Pilot License
Commercial Pilot Certificate
Instrament Rating
Airline Transport Pilot License
(Correct? I know I am simplifying it)
Now I live in an area where there are only a few options to get training (unless I want to drive an hour and a half). Are there any schools that I should not go to? Meaning, there are some colleges for 'normal' degrees that are not accredited, are there any such schools for Pilots? Then is there a difference betweeen a Airline Transport Pilot License and a Airline Transport Pilot Certificate? I have seen both of them used and I wasnt sure if they were talking about two different items or they were just using the wrong word.
Any advice you can give would be Appreciated
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Welcome to the madness! A lot of resources for new pilots can be found here:
General Aviation's largest, most influential association in the world - AOPA
General Aviation's largest, most influential association in the world - AOPA
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HI:
Goodluck.
It may turn out that you don't want to be an airline pilot or pilot of any kind. IT TAKES A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY to do what you want to do.
DO you have the money? I mean enough to buy a small house.
The school doesn't really matter as you might do better by being a good pilot.
It is not like any other profession you can imagine. You do not progress in school to the job of your dreams. Its not like you go to Stanford and get a degree in engineering and have Boeing or NASA recruit you.
Have you taken a flying lesson at all? Go out and take a "DEMO" lesson and try different types of planes to see if you are more comfortable with one type over another. Same with instructors.
If you told us where you live, we might steer you towards a flying school.
And Airline Transport Certificate is the official term for the pilot's license.
All pilot's licenses are technically called, Airman Certificates.
1500 flying hours are required for an ATP (airline transport pilot cert). AND unless you are lucky enough to get a job with a commercial cert at about 250 hours, you may have to pay for all of those hours.
Take out your calculator and multiply 1500 times 150...let me know what that costs you.
And that's the cheap way.
Many people gain hours by teaching others to fly...but it is hard work and does not pay that well or reliably.
So...think
BUT take a lesson and talk to the instructor!
And if you do have any health issues, better to find them out now. The flying school will tell you which doctors to see to get a Medical Certificate.
Goodluck.
It may turn out that you don't want to be an airline pilot or pilot of any kind. IT TAKES A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY to do what you want to do.
DO you have the money? I mean enough to buy a small house.
The school doesn't really matter as you might do better by being a good pilot.
It is not like any other profession you can imagine. You do not progress in school to the job of your dreams. Its not like you go to Stanford and get a degree in engineering and have Boeing or NASA recruit you.
Have you taken a flying lesson at all? Go out and take a "DEMO" lesson and try different types of planes to see if you are more comfortable with one type over another. Same with instructors.
If you told us where you live, we might steer you towards a flying school.
And Airline Transport Certificate is the official term for the pilot's license.
All pilot's licenses are technically called, Airman Certificates.
1500 flying hours are required for an ATP (airline transport pilot cert). AND unless you are lucky enough to get a job with a commercial cert at about 250 hours, you may have to pay for all of those hours.
Take out your calculator and multiply 1500 times 150...let me know what that costs you.
And that's the cheap way.
Many people gain hours by teaching others to fly...but it is hard work and does not pay that well or reliably.
So...think
BUT take a lesson and talk to the instructor!
And if you do have any health issues, better to find them out now. The flying school will tell you which doctors to see to get a Medical Certificate.
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The correct order is:
FAA medical
Private Pilot
Instrument Rating
Commercial pilot
Certified flight instructor or pipeline flying (or something similar for low time pilots)
ATP
I know only one guy paying for his time to build up 1500. Most guys I know are instructing. Most instructor jobs don't pay we'll, but where I work the pay is decent. Some months, it is possible to clear $5000 pretax. I also know a few guys who got hired to do pipeline flying in Texas with as little as 250 hours.
FAA medical
Private Pilot
Instrument Rating
Commercial pilot
Certified flight instructor or pipeline flying (or something similar for low time pilots)
ATP
1500 flying hours are required for an ATP (airline transport pilot cert). AND unless you are lucky enough to get a job with a commercial cert at about 250 hours, you may have to pay for all of those hours.
Take out your calculator and multiply 1500 times 150...let me know what that costs you.
Take out your calculator and multiply 1500 times 150...let me know what that costs you.
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Thank you all for your advice but let me say a few things...
glendalegoon, I Understand that this is not going to be something that happens over night. I know that it is going to take me a while. Also, I know that this is not cheep, I am not naive or stupid, but again it isnt like I am going to be paying for all of this all on one day, or heck, all in one year. Then if I can get an instructing job I will do that with my current job. and see where that takes me.
Right now, because of my MME Degree I have a decent job paying decent money, and I do plan on keeping this job as long as I have to, so yes I am prepared to pay for the hours. This is my dream and I am going to do it, even if I do not achieve it until I am 40, I will do it.
But I will talk to the instructor and take a DEMO lesson and make sure I know what I am getting into before I go head first into the field.
Thank you zondaracer for the information, but what is pipeline flying??
glendalegoon, I Understand that this is not going to be something that happens over night. I know that it is going to take me a while. Also, I know that this is not cheep, I am not naive or stupid, but again it isnt like I am going to be paying for all of this all on one day, or heck, all in one year. Then if I can get an instructing job I will do that with my current job. and see where that takes me.
Right now, because of my MME Degree I have a decent job paying decent money, and I do plan on keeping this job as long as I have to, so yes I am prepared to pay for the hours. This is my dream and I am going to do it, even if I do not achieve it until I am 40, I will do it.
But I will talk to the instructor and take a DEMO lesson and make sure I know what I am getting into before I go head first into the field.
Thank you zondaracer for the information, but what is pipeline flying??
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I haven't heard about this "pipeline flying" certificate. Tell me more.
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They are the same thing. For whatever reason, in the US it is referred to as a "certificate" by the FAA. Most of the rest of the planet uses the word "license". That's why on an international forum like this, it's common to see it abbreviated ATPL. But the difference is just semantics, it's all the same thing.
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A squared, you're right, no real correct order.
As far as pipeline flying, down in Texas, some companies hire low time pilots to fly single engine and multiengine pistons to inspect oil pipelines and pumping stations, as inspecting visually from a plane is more efficient than a car over the large expanse that is Texas. I know a few guys who have done this instead of going the instructor route. There is no actual certificate, sorry if I wasn't clear about that. I was just trying to point out that there are options to get paid and fly other than instructing.
As far as pipeline flying, down in Texas, some companies hire low time pilots to fly single engine and multiengine pistons to inspect oil pipelines and pumping stations, as inspecting visually from a plane is more efficient than a car over the large expanse that is Texas. I know a few guys who have done this instead of going the instructor route. There is no actual certificate, sorry if I wasn't clear about that. I was just trying to point out that there are options to get paid and fly other than instructing.
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Besides money, you're going to need a big suitcase full of persistence and determination, but then doing what might be your passion in life might be worth all the interim grief to you.
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But a noob might have been confused by it being listed in there with the certificates.
Good points about jobs to build the time vs buying the time.
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And just to make sure I know that my ducks are in a row...
If I get a Airline Transport Pilot License it will allow me to be a pilot for the major airlines Correct?
And just wondering, what is needed to be a Freight Plane Pilot? Like for DHL, UPS and such?
Thank you all for all of your information. You have helped me greatly
If I get a Airline Transport Pilot License it will allow me to be a pilot for the major airlines Correct?
And just wondering, what is needed to be a Freight Plane Pilot? Like for DHL, UPS and such?
Thank you all for all of your information. You have helped me greatly
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IF you get a multi engine ATP you will be allowed to fly for a major carrier. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN they will hire you!
YOU need the same ATP to fly for a freight company like UPS or FEDEX (at least as captain)
YOU need the same ATP to fly for a freight company like UPS or FEDEX (at least as captain)
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@a squared... Haha Ok. Valid point
@justplaincountry: an ATP is required now to work at any airline including the regionals as a first officer. If you desire to work at a place like FedEx or UPS, it will take several years of fliyng experience and some internal references usually to get a job at a place like those.
@justplaincountry: an ATP is required now to work at any airline including the regionals as a first officer. If you desire to work at a place like FedEx or UPS, it will take several years of fliyng experience and some internal references usually to get a job at a place like those.
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The freight outfits flying large airplanes, like UPS, Fed-Ex, Atlas, and DHL's contractors, are all Airlines, which pretty much the same requirements and operating rules as a passenger airlines. It is just as tough to get a pilot position at UPS and Fed-Ex as it would be at Delta or United, maybe more.
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Awesome, awesome.
And I figured I would have to work somewhere else (before the Airlines) to gain the experiance needed... With that being said, where would be a good place to start working (other then instructing)? I am not sure what kind of places hire pilots, especially in Kentucky. I havent looked to far into this part of it yet, I have mainly been focusing on the education and the requirements to pass the physical.
glendalegoon, I realize that just because you get an education and meet all the requirements, it does not guarentee you a job, again I am not naive. But that is the case with any field you go into. Just because I have an engineering degree does not mean that I was going to get an engineering job right out of college. I truely still have not gotten there, I am working in the area, and I am working my way up, but I still have a long way to go. No one wants to hire a green bean. Thats a 'No Duh' thing.
Thank you all for the help you have given me
And I figured I would have to work somewhere else (before the Airlines) to gain the experiance needed... With that being said, where would be a good place to start working (other then instructing)? I am not sure what kind of places hire pilots, especially in Kentucky. I havent looked to far into this part of it yet, I have mainly been focusing on the education and the requirements to pass the physical.
glendalegoon, I realize that just because you get an education and meet all the requirements, it does not guarentee you a job, again I am not naive. But that is the case with any field you go into. Just because I have an engineering degree does not mean that I was going to get an engineering job right out of college. I truely still have not gotten there, I am working in the area, and I am working my way up, but I still have a long way to go. No one wants to hire a green bean. Thats a 'No Duh' thing.
Thank you all for the help you have given me
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I agree that the biggest challenge is having the persistence to keep going. Yes, there is a lot of money involved, too, but to me, it was making myself get into a 172 or a PA-28 yet again and again when in my mind I should have long ago been flying a 777 was the hardest thing.
My take on this is as follows:
If you truly know in your heart that you should be a pilot, then you have to go do it. Have to. Because if you don't, you'll be miserable doing whatever else you'll be doing, and then you'll die wondering.
If, however, you're looking at this for ANY reason OTHER THAN you know in your heart you should be flying, then go do something else.
My take on this is as follows:
If you truly know in your heart that you should be a pilot, then you have to go do it. Have to. Because if you don't, you'll be miserable doing whatever else you'll be doing, and then you'll die wondering.
If, however, you're looking at this for ANY reason OTHER THAN you know in your heart you should be flying, then go do something else.
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The last time I was around, UPS wanted four years of college, around 4,000 hrs (preferably with some heavy time) and at least an ATP written, as you could be hired on a long range, international airplane that will require a type rating.
My son flies Gulfstreams for a very well known corporation, and I would recommend that path over the airlines these days (except for maybe UPS or FedEx). Get some time under your belt as a CFI then get a bush pilot job in AK. Quick way to build time, and better experience than only being a flight instructor.
My son flies Gulfstreams for a very well known corporation, and I would recommend that path over the airlines these days (except for maybe UPS or FedEx). Get some time under your belt as a CFI then get a bush pilot job in AK. Quick way to build time, and better experience than only being a flight instructor.
