Is US a police state now?
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It is odd to me that, of all people, some Europeans seem to have forgotten what a true police state is.
When was the last time someone was shot to death trying to escape from the United States? When was the last time someone was denied an exit visa from the United States? When was the last time someone was jailed for criticizing the US President?
Does the US legal system have problems? Yes, it absolutely does. The same is true of every country, to a greater or lesser degree. But the US is not a police state. Eastern European countries during the Soviet Era were police states, and as European citizens, you, of all people, should know the difference.
Calling the United States a police state undercuts whatever point you were trying to make.
When was the last time someone was shot to death trying to escape from the United States? When was the last time someone was denied an exit visa from the United States? When was the last time someone was jailed for criticizing the US President?
Does the US legal system have problems? Yes, it absolutely does. The same is true of every country, to a greater or lesser degree. But the US is not a police state. Eastern European countries during the Soviet Era were police states, and as European citizens, you, of all people, should know the difference.
Calling the United States a police state undercuts whatever point you were trying to make.
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If you don't believe the U.S. is a police state, read this:
NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers: report - Yahoo! Finance
NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers: report - Yahoo! Finance
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I'm a U.S. citizen born in Italy. Lived in Italy/Germany for 3/4 of my 21 years of life and live in the U.S. now.
Like it or not, unless you live here you probably have no clue what the laws are or how the system actually works on a day to day basis.
Personally, I believe as a law abiding citizen there is no better system to live in. Its simple, you dont mess with the law and the law doesnt mess with you. There is no gray areas. Its all straightforward and made clear from day 1 at elementary school.
On the other hand, In Italy you have a complete lack of law, crime and poverty everywhere. Too much to even discuss.
Germany, great country all around, but the closest thing to a police state I have ever lived in. Examples...you can get pulled over at any given time while driving for no reason except that the officers want to check your license etc. etc. You can get fined for 'offending' a public official. Public officials are treated as if they are somehow 'above' the average citizen. No big issues, but just an example of the different approach to freedom and rights.
Terrible integration of immigrants... never met U.S. born individual from a first generation immigrant family not speaking the language.
In Germany? You meet third/fourth German Turks who dont speak a word of German.
I do admit the gun problem is troubling, but it can only get better, and at least the public has the power to make changes in this country. Maybe tomorrow or maybe sometime in the future. But change is always possible in the U.S.
Do we need to ban guns? Absolutely not. Nobody ever wishes to face a situation with a intruder at home. If god forbid it does ever happen, you have the right to defend yourself and your family. And if indeed it and it comes to the intruder being shot, then you will not face the law for defending yourself and your family. I dont know another country where private property is as protected and valued as the U.S.
In any case, some changes in the law need to happen so that we dont have jackasses going to schools and malls as we sadly all too often hear about on the news.
In Italy you still have politicians calling for the abolition of private property. Want to talk about self defense? It isn't even clearly defined by the law. Just google the countless cases of hard working people having guns pointed to their faces at point blank range during armed robberies. They fight back like anyone would, and then they are the ones being put on trial facing 10+ years for 'excessive' force used in self defense. Fact is, the moment someone chooses to point a gun in your face, you should have the right to defend yourself however you deem necessary.
Is the U.S. have its share of problems? Absolutely. However, knowing that we have a system that encourages and is open to change (as slow as it may come about at times) is all I need. Ultimately, what separates the country from the rest, Is the immense diversity of its people and as different as opinions may be on gun laws, abortion etc., we all want to move forward and we are all Americans. The sense of national pride is far stronger in this country than anywhere else I have lived.
Although insanely expensive today (needs to change) our universities are still the best in the world, and students flock in from all corners of the world to study here.
Name me 3. under 30 year olds who have started a billion dollar business in the last 20 years in Europe? You will have trouble finding even 1 who started a million dollar business.
In the U.S.? I could name you 100+ And the beauty of it is, many came from all reaches of the world to realize their goals and dreams here, because they know there is no better merit based system in the world that encourages entrepreneurship and technological advancement like the U.S.
I would rather have the NSA, FBI, CIA and hell even the FAA reading every single one of my text messages, emails, listening to my phone calls, because as a law abiding citizen you have nothing to hide, and If it helps stop another jackass from committing a horrendous and senseless act, then ultimately it makes us all safer.
Like it or not, unless you live here you probably have no clue what the laws are or how the system actually works on a day to day basis.
Personally, I believe as a law abiding citizen there is no better system to live in. Its simple, you dont mess with the law and the law doesnt mess with you. There is no gray areas. Its all straightforward and made clear from day 1 at elementary school.
On the other hand, In Italy you have a complete lack of law, crime and poverty everywhere. Too much to even discuss.
Germany, great country all around, but the closest thing to a police state I have ever lived in. Examples...you can get pulled over at any given time while driving for no reason except that the officers want to check your license etc. etc. You can get fined for 'offending' a public official. Public officials are treated as if they are somehow 'above' the average citizen. No big issues, but just an example of the different approach to freedom and rights.
Terrible integration of immigrants... never met U.S. born individual from a first generation immigrant family not speaking the language.
In Germany? You meet third/fourth German Turks who dont speak a word of German.
I do admit the gun problem is troubling, but it can only get better, and at least the public has the power to make changes in this country. Maybe tomorrow or maybe sometime in the future. But change is always possible in the U.S.
Do we need to ban guns? Absolutely not. Nobody ever wishes to face a situation with a intruder at home. If god forbid it does ever happen, you have the right to defend yourself and your family. And if indeed it and it comes to the intruder being shot, then you will not face the law for defending yourself and your family. I dont know another country where private property is as protected and valued as the U.S.
In any case, some changes in the law need to happen so that we dont have jackasses going to schools and malls as we sadly all too often hear about on the news.
In Italy you still have politicians calling for the abolition of private property. Want to talk about self defense? It isn't even clearly defined by the law. Just google the countless cases of hard working people having guns pointed to their faces at point blank range during armed robberies. They fight back like anyone would, and then they are the ones being put on trial facing 10+ years for 'excessive' force used in self defense. Fact is, the moment someone chooses to point a gun in your face, you should have the right to defend yourself however you deem necessary.
Is the U.S. have its share of problems? Absolutely. However, knowing that we have a system that encourages and is open to change (as slow as it may come about at times) is all I need. Ultimately, what separates the country from the rest, Is the immense diversity of its people and as different as opinions may be on gun laws, abortion etc., we all want to move forward and we are all Americans. The sense of national pride is far stronger in this country than anywhere else I have lived.
Although insanely expensive today (needs to change) our universities are still the best in the world, and students flock in from all corners of the world to study here.
Name me 3. under 30 year olds who have started a billion dollar business in the last 20 years in Europe? You will have trouble finding even 1 who started a million dollar business.
In the U.S.? I could name you 100+ And the beauty of it is, many came from all reaches of the world to realize their goals and dreams here, because they know there is no better merit based system in the world that encourages entrepreneurship and technological advancement like the U.S.
If you don't believe the U.S. is a police state, read this:
NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers: report - Yahoo! Finance
NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers: report - Yahoo! Finance
Last edited by B-HKD; 6th Jun 2013 at 16:22.
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What if your name was Abu Hamza and you were a law abiding citizen but your every move was monitored merely because you shared a name with a known extremist? What if they mistook you for him.....what if you were a Bazilian plumber expat living in London that found yourself dead because of failures in the process of the watchers?
The USA and UK are both de facto Police States and they have achieved this because of the apathetic "if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah" BS attitude married to scaremongering policies founded on very dubious grounds.
You can literally get away with murder but woe betide anyone that commits a crime against the State, it's tyrannical at best.
The USA and UK are both de facto Police States and they have achieved this because of the apathetic "if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah" BS attitude married to scaremongering policies founded on very dubious grounds.
You can literally get away with murder but woe betide anyone that commits a crime against the State, it's tyrannical at best.
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What if your name was Abu Hamza and you were a law abiding citizen but your every move was monitored merely because you shared a name with a known extremist? What if they mistook you for him.....what if you were a Bazilian plumber expat living in London that found yourself dead because of failures in the process of the watchers?
The USA and UK are both de facto Police States and they have achieved this because of the apathetic "if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah" BS attitude married to scaremongering policies founded on very dubious grounds.
You can literally get away with murder but woe betide anyone that commits a crime against the State, it's tyrannical at best.
The USA and UK are both de facto Police States and they have achieved this because of the apathetic "if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah" BS attitude married to scaremongering policies founded on very dubious grounds.
You can literally get away with murder but woe betide anyone that commits a crime against the State, it's tyrannical at best.
No doubt it is unfortunate Abu Hamza may have every step monitored for being Abu Hamza, but does it directly affect his life? Will anyone wrongfully imprison him let alone interfere with his life for even 1 second? Most likely never.
And when it happens...Abu Hamza has every right and his own voice to bring forward change, as long as he can find others who agree and share his viewpoints.
Also... dont compare the U.K. to the U.S..... In the U.K. you have fanatic clerics spewing out hate against the very system and society that was tolerant enough to accept them in the first place.
google Anjem Choudary....
Never met a American of muslim faith who doesnt believe and cherish the freedoms this country provides. There is no country in the world that respects freedom of religion more than the U.S.
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Free Society, I struggle to think of anything I do that the Government does not have it's dirty hands in.
I don't buy this "price we pay" BS.
I don't buy this "price we pay" BS.
Last edited by Dak Man; 6th Jun 2013 at 16:01.
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Free Society, I struggle to think of anything I do that the Government does not have it's dirty hands in.
I don't buy this "price we pay" BS.
I don't buy this "price we pay" BS.
Not refering to you Dak Man, but more often that not, it is the very same people who blindly vote and elect clowns who proceed to complain about the clowns.
If you dont like something, then work to change it. The freedoms in Democracy are always a recipe for disaster as it allows both the smart individuals and the not so smart individuals to voice opinions and make decisions that affect us all. Hence it is our duty as citizens (if we care) to step forward and make sure the clowns stay away from the positions that matter most.
If you want a perfect society where you have no responsabilities and the government is perfect and everyone is happy, call uncle Kim in North Korea.
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Your implying there is something going on to which I am turning my back to because it doesnt directly affect me.
If so...please enlighten me
Are people being excecuted/imprisoned based on religion/race/shoe size?
One thing is voicing your complaints on a website and yet doing nothing about it in your daily life.
Either you care enough to change something, or you dont.
I live in the same world you live in and face the same responsibilities. Only difference is, it isnt my generation that created all the problems the we currently face
If there is one thing I learned from life so far, is that you either get up and attempt to change the things you dont agree with, or you remain quiet if you choose not to. Its easy complain..
Either way, its not up to your generation anymore to bring about change. So sit back, and enjoy the ride.
If so...please enlighten me
Are people being excecuted/imprisoned based on religion/race/shoe size?
One thing is voicing your complaints on a website and yet doing nothing about it in your daily life.
Either you care enough to change something, or you dont.
I live in the same world you live in and face the same responsibilities. Only difference is, it isnt my generation that created all the problems the we currently face
If there is one thing I learned from life so far, is that you either get up and attempt to change the things you dont agree with, or you remain quiet if you choose not to. Its easy complain..
Either way, its not up to your generation anymore to bring about change. So sit back, and enjoy the ride.
Last edited by B-HKD; 6th Jun 2013 at 17:00.
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Germany is the furthest away from a police state...
You get just a tiny bit out of the norm and you're a suspect in this country, they'll invade your home, they'll invade you're privacy, tapping your phones, there was even a report that cops put gps locators below cars and many more things here in the US which are shady operations... just look at NY.. stop and frisk... how the hell can that be legal?
You can also look at all those FEMA camps being built to increase the loads of prisons by over 70%, for what?
and it's sad to see that people actually accept to be overseen by big brother for anything, i dont want them to read what i text my girlfriend, my mom or whoever i text or call.
You get just a tiny bit out of the norm and you're a suspect in this country, they'll invade your home, they'll invade you're privacy, tapping your phones, there was even a report that cops put gps locators below cars and many more things here in the US which are shady operations... just look at NY.. stop and frisk... how the hell can that be legal?
You can also look at all those FEMA camps being built to increase the loads of prisons by over 70%, for what?
and it's sad to see that people actually accept to be overseen by big brother for anything, i dont want them to read what i text my girlfriend, my mom or whoever i text or call.
Last edited by Selfmade92; 6th Jun 2013 at 18:51.
