Is US a police state now?
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Is US a police state now?
I used to enjoy going there for a vacation and renting. I felt it was a land of free. But last time I have flown there was 2004. But after reading this,
I am thinking more australia and Europe. Any experience with this hassle, anybody?
Annals of the Security State: Even More Airplane Stories - James Fallows - The Atlantic
I am thinking more australia and Europe. Any experience with this hassle, anybody?
Annals of the Security State: Even More Airplane Stories - James Fallows - The Atlantic
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I have to admit I was thinking the same thing after my last stay in the US. Born and raised there but went overseas for better income. I think police state might be a bit strong, however it does feel like the country is going down that road a bit more whether by necessity or otherwise.
Just an observation.....
Just an observation.....
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What has changed?
In 1988 me (Kraut) and my (Norwegian) flight instructor drove home from Milledgeville GA to Sandersville GA after watching a movie. It was about midnight. 30 miles through absolutely nothing and nobody. Halfway, my instructor decided to respond to the call of nature and headed for the bushes. The car behind us was the stereotype 300lb, bored cop. He arrested my CFI for public exposure. The poor guy spent the night in jail. Whenever in the US (only on duty - never for holiday) the emergency number of my embassy is always in my wallet.
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He arrested my CFI for public exposure.
Your (Norwegian) CFI is now unable to return to the US on a visa waiver and will have to apply for a full visa should he ever want to come back - even for a holiday.
As you cannot enter the US on the Visa Waiver if having ever been previously arrested. (Note - arrested - doesn't have to have been subsequently charged)..
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The moral being - don't break the law!
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Yeah, the police there shoot first then ask questions. I loved the States, but I don't like it anymore. After 11 Sept. they are paranoid.
Last edited by The Range; 30th May 2013 at 17:50.
Entered the USA at Buffalo last year, took an hour to pass immigration, unsmiling gruff staff, Canada fantastic reception by immigration smiling happy and more important welcoming myself to their country. Try Canada, fantastic place.
Yeah it's so bad here in the US. I've had 2 runs ins with the cops in the last 15 years and one of them resulted in a traffic ticket. The other time the officer advised me that one of my tail lights was inoperative and said I should see about replacing it. Fascists! 
And entering the US in a bizjet is just ridiculous. Out of the last 100 or so times having to clear customs at an airport of entry, I've been spoken to in a less than welcoming manner by an agent on 2 or 3 occasions. Why can't they smile more?
But I agree, the Canadians are great. Go visit them!
Airline travel is another matter altogether though. Count me in with the whiners and complainers when it comes to dealing with TSA. As President, my first act would be to fire the whole sorry lot and start over. I'm not likely to run for the office though, so expect more of the same from them for the foreseeable future.
And entering the US in a bizjet is just ridiculous. Out of the last 100 or so times having to clear customs at an airport of entry, I've been spoken to in a less than welcoming manner by an agent on 2 or 3 occasions. Why can't they smile more?
But I agree, the Canadians are great. Go visit them!
Airline travel is another matter altogether though. Count me in with the whiners and complainers when it comes to dealing with TSA. As President, my first act would be to fire the whole sorry lot and start over. I'm not likely to run for the office though, so expect more of the same from them for the foreseeable future.
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Yep. You can thank whackos ranging from terrorists to insane people shooting up schools and movie theaters for making people paranoid. Then you also have the CNN/Fox news/MSNBC 24/7 media constantly drumming up stories to scare people with so they can sell advertising.
Even for petty crimes the authorities will go out of their way to ruin your entire life unless you pay off the right people. I didn't pay a speeding ticket on time when I was 17 (turned in the fine money a few days late), was arrested, mugshotted, and now it's on the internet for eternity whenever someone googles my name.
I carry a concealed pistol on my person almost all the time when I'm at home stateside, but I truly fear the state & federal governments more than I do ordinary citizens. A pistol is scant protection from the real boogeymen.
Even for petty crimes the authorities will go out of their way to ruin your entire life unless you pay off the right people. I didn't pay a speeding ticket on time when I was 17 (turned in the fine money a few days late), was arrested, mugshotted, and now it's on the internet for eternity whenever someone googles my name.
I carry a concealed pistol on my person almost all the time when I'm at home stateside, but I truly fear the state & federal governments more than I do ordinary citizens. A pistol is scant protection from the real boogeymen.
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This country is so afraid of it's own shadow. If you have a neighbor who's dog barks at the early morning hours, and you go to ask him to keep it quiet at night when you have a 4 day trip starting the next morning with a 430 show. You will be arrested as having threatened your neighbor just by asking him to keep his dog quiet.
If you want to look at a police state, look at the home owners association for a particular neighborhood, they stipulate what brand and color of paint to buy for the house, when to paint it (even though it may not need new paint) how tall the grass has to be, what you can and can't have on YOUR property, permits to do the smallest of jobs to the house, mandatory meetings, and if you flip them the bird, they will take your house. Who wants to own a house when someone can come in and take it because they don't like you? Legal theft is all it is. People are afraid to do anything about it and other things in the US.... This generates fear and frustration, which causes violence, and even more fear frustration and the furthering policing of stupid things. I hope to go abroad eventually, thankfully my wife is Colombian.
If you want to look at a police state, look at the home owners association for a particular neighborhood, they stipulate what brand and color of paint to buy for the house, when to paint it (even though it may not need new paint) how tall the grass has to be, what you can and can't have on YOUR property, permits to do the smallest of jobs to the house, mandatory meetings, and if you flip them the bird, they will take your house. Who wants to own a house when someone can come in and take it because they don't like you? Legal theft is all it is. People are afraid to do anything about it and other things in the US.... This generates fear and frustration, which causes violence, and even more fear frustration and the furthering policing of stupid things. I hope to go abroad eventually, thankfully my wife is Colombian.
Last edited by jsfboat; 3rd Jun 2013 at 17:05.
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I agree with OFBSLF. What you guys are talking about are minor irritants as a reasonable response (as opposed to the great nation of Israel's response) to a changing world order. The last time I looked, nobody flew airliners into buildings in Canada or Europe. And, until cops wielding automatic weapons with fierce dogs on leash are a common sight here at most airports, ( as they are in most of Europe) I refuse to acknowledge that the US is a police state.
Even if it is, the shuffle of a million pair of feet trying to move here, live here, work here or even just train here seems to continue. Why is that I wonder?
And that guy whose wife is Colombian? Try living there for a few years and, if you survive, come back and tell us how it is.
The US maybe a lot of things to a lot of people but the one thing it is not is a police state. Those who think otherwise are welcome to leave (you can still do that ,you know, unlike a few other places where your passport is surrendered upon entry) or not visit at all.
Alt3
Even if it is, the shuffle of a million pair of feet trying to move here, live here, work here or even just train here seems to continue. Why is that I wonder?
And that guy whose wife is Colombian? Try living there for a few years and, if you survive, come back and tell us how it is.
The US maybe a lot of things to a lot of people but the one thing it is not is a police state. Those who think otherwise are welcome to leave (you can still do that ,you know, unlike a few other places where your passport is surrendered upon entry) or not visit at all.
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Was driving around in Spain with friends. Got pulled over after leaving a bar. Driver was over their limit but below what is allowed in the USA. Paid the fine on the spot and we drove off. 'nuff said.
America is a joke and definitely a police state with trigger happy cops and over zealous prosecutors looking to rack up convictions for their CV and job advancement. I'll take the personal freedoms of Europe and other places rather than deal with that nonsense. Sadly, the sheeple who don't know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy are too lazy to do anything about it.
America is a joke and definitely a police state with trigger happy cops and over zealous prosecutors looking to rack up convictions for their CV and job advancement. I'll take the personal freedoms of Europe and other places rather than deal with that nonsense. Sadly, the sheeple who don't know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy are too lazy to do anything about it.
Yeah, like most countries, the USA has it's share of problems in finding the right balance of personal liberties and security. I personally believe the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of security over liberty, but the media and politicos benefit from creating fear and worry. So the general perception is somewhat different than the reality I experience in my own life.
For those of us who live relatively normal lives of working, playing and living mostly within the law, we don't have much interaction with law enforcement or indeed any branch of local, state or federal government. Work, pay taxes. don't run too far afoul of the law and I am free to do pretty much whatever my finances allow provided I don't step on the wrong toes. All this hysterical whinging about a "police state" and "trigger happy cops" is something I just don't see in my mundane little middle-class (lower half) existence.
The bottom line is that a certain amount of law enforcement against the lowlifes of this world needs to be aggressively accomplished or innocent law-abiding taxpayers suffer the consequences. I'd like to see this done without impeding my rights or liberties, but the balance is difficult to find when hysteria and sensationalism rules the conversation.
I made a couple of tongue-in-cheek comments earlier in this thread the hope that a sense of humor might be introduced into this rather inane and bitchy thread. Wasted effort I suppose.
I've spent time all over Europe, North America, the Caribbean, Central America etc and found that experiencing things for myself is often quite different than the media hype might lead one to expect. Most places I'd like to see again even though I wouldn't necessarily prefer to live there, under their cultural and societal systems. But I have no desire to disparage their systems or tell them how they should be. I reserve my criticism for my own society and invite all of you who don't prefer America to do the same. We'll get along fine without your input.
westhawk
For those of us who live relatively normal lives of working, playing and living mostly within the law, we don't have much interaction with law enforcement or indeed any branch of local, state or federal government. Work, pay taxes. don't run too far afoul of the law and I am free to do pretty much whatever my finances allow provided I don't step on the wrong toes. All this hysterical whinging about a "police state" and "trigger happy cops" is something I just don't see in my mundane little middle-class (lower half) existence.
The bottom line is that a certain amount of law enforcement against the lowlifes of this world needs to be aggressively accomplished or innocent law-abiding taxpayers suffer the consequences. I'd like to see this done without impeding my rights or liberties, but the balance is difficult to find when hysteria and sensationalism rules the conversation.
I made a couple of tongue-in-cheek comments earlier in this thread the hope that a sense of humor might be introduced into this rather inane and bitchy thread. Wasted effort I suppose.
I've spent time all over Europe, North America, the Caribbean, Central America etc and found that experiencing things for myself is often quite different than the media hype might lead one to expect. Most places I'd like to see again even though I wouldn't necessarily prefer to live there, under their cultural and societal systems. But I have no desire to disparage their systems or tell them how they should be. I reserve my criticism for my own society and invite all of you who don't prefer America to do the same. We'll get along fine without your input.
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And that guy whose wife is Colombian? Try living there for a few years and, if you survive, come back and tell us how it is.
Last edited by The Dominican; 5th Jun 2013 at 06:43.
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Activist Post: Is It Time to Pack Your Bags America?
Places like Belize, Colombia, Panama, Peru, Ecuador, all these countries have experienced an increase of over 4 to 5 times the amount of Americans purchasing property and moving to these nations. Numbered in the millions!!! You have to admit that even just a decade ago, that number was very low and in many cases just transient (job transfer or military assignments)
The US is still and will continue to be a shining star of opportunity for many, but many folks are moving abroad, in numbers you never saw before
Places like Belize, Colombia, Panama, Peru, Ecuador, all these countries have experienced an increase of over 4 to 5 times the amount of Americans purchasing property and moving to these nations. Numbered in the millions!!! You have to admit that even just a decade ago, that number was very low and in many cases just transient (job transfer or military assignments)
The US is still and will continue to be a shining star of opportunity for many, but many folks are moving abroad, in numbers you never saw before
Last edited by The Dominican; 5th Jun 2013 at 07:09.