Moving to the United States
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: on the road...
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Moving to the United States
Hi All,
Thank you for anyone who takes the time to read my post, I'm genuinely looking for honest, objective feedback.
My situation is this:
I have the option to return to the US (I’m a British citizen) and live and work as a permanent resident. I initially undertook my flight training in the US, so I have FAA licences (CPL, CFI/CFII), though with very little ‘dual-given’ at this stage.
I have completed the UK (JAA) licences (CPL, IR, and ATPL theory) though, like many, struggle to see a viable way to progress in Europe without having to pay upwards of £30,000 for a type rating - which I will not do. Before you say “General Aviation..” – it’s insanely expensive here, and a small sector with limited opportunities at that.
At the end of the day, I have undertaken this training in order to have a career, and I would eventually like to get into the airlines.
My general question for the US guys (CFI's, Regional pilots etc) is this: In your honest opinion, upon moving back to the States, do you think the average pilot/CFI would struggle with either;
- - getting a fairly decent CFI job (assuming I am prepared to move around);
- - and then advancing to the regionals, after a couple of years
Additionally:
- - Might you yourself feel the need to move abroad in order to further your career?
- - From your point of view, does it seem that things will improve (opportunities, ‘terms and conditions’)?
Again, thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer some of my questions, I do appreciate it. Of course, there is much more to it than “I’m just a low-hour guy seeing if I can make it in the States”. I have a great deal to consider, and would value any honest feedback while I continue to map a mental picture regarding what might lie in store.
Also, please feel free to PM me if you would prefer to communicate that way.
Thanks again.
Thank you for anyone who takes the time to read my post, I'm genuinely looking for honest, objective feedback.
My situation is this:
I have the option to return to the US (I’m a British citizen) and live and work as a permanent resident. I initially undertook my flight training in the US, so I have FAA licences (CPL, CFI/CFII), though with very little ‘dual-given’ at this stage.
I have completed the UK (JAA) licences (CPL, IR, and ATPL theory) though, like many, struggle to see a viable way to progress in Europe without having to pay upwards of £30,000 for a type rating - which I will not do. Before you say “General Aviation..” – it’s insanely expensive here, and a small sector with limited opportunities at that.
At the end of the day, I have undertaken this training in order to have a career, and I would eventually like to get into the airlines.
My general question for the US guys (CFI's, Regional pilots etc) is this: In your honest opinion, upon moving back to the States, do you think the average pilot/CFI would struggle with either;
- - getting a fairly decent CFI job (assuming I am prepared to move around);
- - and then advancing to the regionals, after a couple of years
Additionally:
- - Might you yourself feel the need to move abroad in order to further your career?
- - From your point of view, does it seem that things will improve (opportunities, ‘terms and conditions’)?
Again, thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer some of my questions, I do appreciate it. Of course, there is much more to it than “I’m just a low-hour guy seeing if I can make it in the States”. I have a great deal to consider, and would value any honest feedback while I continue to map a mental picture regarding what might lie in store.
Also, please feel free to PM me if you would prefer to communicate that way.
Thanks again.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: fort sheridan, il
Posts: 1,656
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Decent CFI job? ain't no such thing...you will be on the poor side of life ...I do think you would be better off for flying in a richer part of the USA.
more than 30 years ago I instructed in silicon valley (KPAO). I was poor but got over 1500 hours dual given.
in 1975 learned to fly when you could rent a piper cherokee for 12 US dollars an hour including gasoline.
its more than 10 times that now. the minimum wage has gone up 5 times (500percent) but flying has gone up 1000percent.
so, go where the people are rich and the weather is good. of course you won't be able to really live in great style.
now, you can give it a try and I hope you are a good pilot and cfi...but no guarantees
and quite frankly, if I had to hire someone, I would hire a US citizen.
more than 30 years ago I instructed in silicon valley (KPAO). I was poor but got over 1500 hours dual given.
in 1975 learned to fly when you could rent a piper cherokee for 12 US dollars an hour including gasoline.
its more than 10 times that now. the minimum wage has gone up 5 times (500percent) but flying has gone up 1000percent.
so, go where the people are rich and the weather is good. of course you won't be able to really live in great style.
now, you can give it a try and I hope you are a good pilot and cfi...but no guarantees
and quite frankly, if I had to hire someone, I would hire a US citizen.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think I understand the choice you're trying to make, and I'll give you my opinion as a current regional pilot who used to be a CFI.
Firstly, good idea on not whoring yourself and paying for a type rating.
Never understood that mentality.
In your honest opinion, upon moving back to the States, do you think the average pilot/CFI would struggle with either;
- - getting a fairly decent CFI job (assuming I am prepared to move around);
- - and then advancing to the regionals, after a couple of years
On getting a CFI job, well it depends a lot on where you want to work. As a CFI, I made more money than I did in my first year as a regional pilot. Significantly more money. My flight school kept pretty busy though, and many of us logged 100+ hrs each month. In the busier flight training areas, it will be much easier for you to make money if you go to a busy school than if you teach at a county airport in Idaho.
On advancing to the regionals, once you meet the minimum qualifications (which will be an ATP as of Aug 2013), timing is everything. Today, most regionals want 1000TT and 100ME. Some new hires have been CFI's for ~1yr before getting hired. Others have had to wait 4 years. However, when hiring waves begin, the higher time pilots will usually get picked up first.
Do NOT buy this "pilot shortage" BS unless you also believe in the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy.
- - Might you yourself feel the need to move abroad in order to further your career?
I'm looking to do that right now. There are good jobs in the US. The most lucrative jobs (FedEx, UPS, Delta) all but require that you've flown with somebody on the inside who's willing to give you a recommendation. The rest (AAL, UAL etc.) will give a payoff only after you've reached the 10-12 year mark as a captain. Granted, with the stagnation of most seniority lists today, most FO's will go directly to the top of the CA payscale. However, as somebody who's just looking to start, that payoff will be a minimum of 15-20 years from now.
- - From your point of view, does it seem that things will improve (opportunities, ‘terms and conditions’)?
Very difficult to say. The big issue for the last decade or so is scope. The majors have been giving more and more flying away to regional carriers. More than half of all domestic flying is done by regionals. As regionals have grown, majors have become smaller, thus the number of higher paying Major jobs has fallen in favour of lower paying regional jobs. At one point, regionals used to be seen as stepping stones. Now, a growing number of pilots are seeing their regional airline as their career destination.
Right now, everybody is watching the Delta TA, with particular interest in the regional flying section.
If I were you, I'd try my level best to find a job outside of the US
Don't let sevenstrokeroll scare you either. Many CFI's and regional pilots are not US citizens. In my new hire class, 3 or 4 were permanent residents. It would be illegal for an employer not to hire you on that basis.
Airline Pilot Central is a great place to ask questions on US flying.
Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
Firstly, good idea on not whoring yourself and paying for a type rating.
Never understood that mentality.In your honest opinion, upon moving back to the States, do you think the average pilot/CFI would struggle with either;
- - getting a fairly decent CFI job (assuming I am prepared to move around);
- - and then advancing to the regionals, after a couple of years
On getting a CFI job, well it depends a lot on where you want to work. As a CFI, I made more money than I did in my first year as a regional pilot. Significantly more money. My flight school kept pretty busy though, and many of us logged 100+ hrs each month. In the busier flight training areas, it will be much easier for you to make money if you go to a busy school than if you teach at a county airport in Idaho.
On advancing to the regionals, once you meet the minimum qualifications (which will be an ATP as of Aug 2013), timing is everything. Today, most regionals want 1000TT and 100ME. Some new hires have been CFI's for ~1yr before getting hired. Others have had to wait 4 years. However, when hiring waves begin, the higher time pilots will usually get picked up first.
Do NOT buy this "pilot shortage" BS unless you also believe in the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy.
- - Might you yourself feel the need to move abroad in order to further your career?
I'm looking to do that right now. There are good jobs in the US. The most lucrative jobs (FedEx, UPS, Delta) all but require that you've flown with somebody on the inside who's willing to give you a recommendation. The rest (AAL, UAL etc.) will give a payoff only after you've reached the 10-12 year mark as a captain. Granted, with the stagnation of most seniority lists today, most FO's will go directly to the top of the CA payscale. However, as somebody who's just looking to start, that payoff will be a minimum of 15-20 years from now.
- - From your point of view, does it seem that things will improve (opportunities, ‘terms and conditions’)?
Very difficult to say. The big issue for the last decade or so is scope. The majors have been giving more and more flying away to regional carriers. More than half of all domestic flying is done by regionals. As regionals have grown, majors have become smaller, thus the number of higher paying Major jobs has fallen in favour of lower paying regional jobs. At one point, regionals used to be seen as stepping stones. Now, a growing number of pilots are seeing their regional airline as their career destination.
Right now, everybody is watching the Delta TA, with particular interest in the regional flying section.
If I were you, I'd try my level best to find a job outside of the US
Don't let sevenstrokeroll scare you either. Many CFI's and regional pilots are not US citizens. In my new hire class, 3 or 4 were permanent residents. It would be illegal for an employer not to hire you on that basis.
Airline Pilot Central is a great place to ask questions on US flying.
Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 41
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cool, well a University degree is a University degree, it doesn't have to be aviation related to get a job in aviation. It is essentially a requirement to get into the majors these days in the US (amongst other requirements).
If you have a green card, you will be treated about the same as anybody else unless the job specifically requires eligibility to get a security clearance.
On a final note from me, if you already have a job instructing, keep it unless you think the business is about to go bust. If you are currently jobless, then going to the US might be a good move for now, but have no illusions of making bank (see check airman's good post above)
If you have a green card, you will be treated about the same as anybody else unless the job specifically requires eligibility to get a security clearance.
On a final note from me, if you already have a job instructing, keep it unless you think the business is about to go bust. If you are currently jobless, then going to the US might be a good move for now, but have no illusions of making bank (see check airman's good post above)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is it about a degree
is it just an american thing, all american jobs seek a degree in blood letting, or similar.......
is an atp, similar to a degree, in commitment....
glf
is an atp, similar to a degree, in commitment....
glf
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 41
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't really know, but a bachelor degree seems to be the new education minimum in the US. A common question when getting to know somebody is "Where did you go to college (where college means University in yankee speak)?" Those who didn't go to University or didn't complete university seem to have a well thought out answer/excuse to try to minimize awkward conversation. Granted, I personally don't think a University degree is necessarily a sign of intelligence, because obviously people have done great things without some piece of paper that shows that they went to school for 4 years, but employers look at a degree as the ability to commit to self improvement.
These days, you would be hard pressed to find someone who got hired at the majors in the past 15 years in the US without a university degree. The regionals are a different story, however.
These days, you would be hard pressed to find someone who got hired at the majors in the past 15 years in the US without a university degree. The regionals are a different story, however.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sand pit
Age: 54
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would think it should be moderately easy to gain employment in places like Florida, or Arizona, which offer good year round flying.
As with all things it is little tough to get started with first job , but once you can start building time I really expect to see quite abit of hiring at the regional level.
Good Luck!
As with all things it is little tough to get started with first job , but once you can start building time I really expect to see quite abit of hiring at the regional level.
Good Luck!
There are many instructor jobs. Not necessarily *good* jobs but they're jobs that get you on the ladder. One school in Florida is advertising a $2000 sign on bonus *OR* they'll pay for some or all of your instructor rating (with a bond/return of service obligation).
Lots of good information here, however, although there may be no restrictions on Pilot jobs for those with permanent residency (I assume you mean a Green Card)
It is not easy to get a job with a US Major without being an American Citizen.
Not saying it's impossible but given the choice between you and a US citizen they will nearly always choose the latter and claim security considerations post 9 -11.
My point is, if you decide to move to the US and stay here, you would be a lot better off becoming a US Citizen, not just for career purposes.
You would not lose your British Citizenship, or right to a UK Passport if you did this. Although the US would not recognize any other citizenship you can never 'lose' your original one.
It is not easy to get a job with a US Major without being an American Citizen.
Not saying it's impossible but given the choice between you and a US citizen they will nearly always choose the latter and claim security considerations post 9 -11.
My point is, if you decide to move to the US and stay here, you would be a lot better off becoming a US Citizen, not just for career purposes.
You would not lose your British Citizenship, or right to a UK Passport if you did this. Although the US would not recognize any other citizenship you can never 'lose' your original one.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not saying it's impossible but given the choice between you and a US citizen they will nearly always choose the latter and claim security considerations post 9 -11.
It's almost a moot point anyway, because by the time he's eligible to get to a major, he'd have been a resident for way more than the required 5 years.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NYC Metro Area
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I were in your shoes, what I would do is come to the US and take a CFI job. If you are flexible about where you live, this should not be a big problem. Do this until you can get hired by a regional, and try to get into an aircraft that has wide usage internationally, like an Embraer regional jet, or an Airbus. If you can get to the point that you have 500 hours in something like that, there are jobs in China, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, etc. that pay well. Just be prepared to not make any real money instructing and at the US regional.
I know guys flying Embraer at NAS in Saudi Arabia making more than $12,000 a month as captain or more than $9000 a month as F.O. I would do that myself, but those jobs need 500 time in type, and for me to go to a regional now to get that would be a big step backwards.
I know guys flying Embraer at NAS in Saudi Arabia making more than $12,000 a month as captain or more than $9000 a month as F.O. I would do that myself, but those jobs need 500 time in type, and for me to go to a regional now to get that would be a big step backwards.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CFI Jobs
Hey, Working as a CFI will make you go broke fast. There are only a few schools that pay a decent wage. Only 1 or 2 is currently hiring though. In America you'll also have to consider health insurance, and most schools don't provide any real insurance. Real insurance is virtually unaffordable unless you can get employer sponsored group insuarance. I don't know if your UK insurance is portable to the US.
I can PM you a few names of companies that are hiring, and some that are not currently hiring, but have excellent pay. Just let me know.
I can PM you a few names of companies that are hiring, and some that are not currently hiring, but have excellent pay. Just let me know.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 41
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Japandwell, you bring up a very good point about insurance. No universal health care in the US. I've known people to risk it without health insurance, and then get injured and end up with a very expensive health bill.
Also, watch out for flight schools that want to employ you as a contractor. Many will require you to provide your own flight instructor insurance out of your own pocket.
Also, watch out for flight schools that want to employ you as a contractor. Many will require you to provide your own flight instructor insurance out of your own pocket.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone know what health insurance costs in the States for a young and healthy person without debt?
And a slight off topic question, is there no universal healthcare in Canada, and how expensive is health insurance in Canada compares to the States?
And a slight off topic question, is there no universal healthcare in Canada, and how expensive is health insurance in Canada compares to the States?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There IS "free" (publicly funded via our provincial taxes) health care in Canada, covering doctor, hospital & specialist visits, surgeries, etc etc. It is available to permanent residents and citizens. If you're an immigrant, there is a waiting period (3 months I believe.)
I believe if you're in Canada on a work permit and have a contract for full time employment, you also qualify for health care after a waiting period but I'm not sure exactly how that works.
Most folks here have extra private insurance through and supplemented by their workplaces to cover "extra" things like prescription medications, dentist, eye care, physiotherapy, etc. for themselves and their dependents.
As far as actual cost - I really have no idea because it comes out of our taxes, so depending on what you make, you pay out a decent chunk of tax and from that, the government puts it back into the health care system whether you use it or not. If you make more money, you pay more tax. Private insurance - depends on the insurance company and what your workplace chips in towards that, and the province you work in.
I believe if you're in Canada on a work permit and have a contract for full time employment, you also qualify for health care after a waiting period but I'm not sure exactly how that works.
Most folks here have extra private insurance through and supplemented by their workplaces to cover "extra" things like prescription medications, dentist, eye care, physiotherapy, etc. for themselves and their dependents.
As far as actual cost - I really have no idea because it comes out of our taxes, so depending on what you make, you pay out a decent chunk of tax and from that, the government puts it back into the health care system whether you use it or not. If you make more money, you pay more tax. Private insurance - depends on the insurance company and what your workplace chips in towards that, and the province you work in.
Last edited by surveytheworld; 12th Jun 2012 at 21:18.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US health
The US is in transition with healthcare policy. The government recently passed sweeping healthcare reform laws that will gradually take effect. Health insurance is something that you will need to shop around for. Educate yourself thouroughly on all aspects. Try a search on Obama Care and there is a government website that explains it pretty well. Beware that not all of these laws have taken effect yet.
Major differnces exist between what your own insurance offer and what group employer plans offer.
Major differnces exist between what your own insurance offer and what group employer plans offer.
