US Airways
Evening Pakeha-Boy:
These frustrations can consume any of us and we all can justify descriptions of injustice and mistreatment from the other 'barbarian tribes' during a merger. Sure-this sounds foolish and over-simplistic. The only solution is practicing partial, or even total detachment. It is not easy, but we don't need to be a Buddhist or Hindu.
My company went through a merger in the late 80's. For a merger, it wasn't too bad...but-I had ZERO expectations and only wanted to stay as a narrow-body FO at my home base.
We 'may be' in another merger.
Frankly, I really don't care. I delete almost each and every MEC/LEC e-mail on this computer-and never read about 80% of them- because I don't care, and expect this merger to be a real 'train wreck' or 'Katrina', as some of it is caused by the very disturbing trends in fuel prices, and the eternal tribal clashes on this planet. Only 6-9 years to go for me (normal age), but seriously doubt that I can stand this industry too much longer. But my wife has a medical condition and I don't know who pays for health insurance it we retire a good bit early. I hate to go into the crew lounge to ask a really dumb question about such a basic topic.
If we find a new hobby, i.e. plinking with the Mini 14, 30, SKS and M44 rifles...all very handy carbines, it takes our minds away from this miserable industry which won't get any better...
Too busy enjoying running in the woods on days off, or blasting floating grapefruits with fairly cheap, hollow-point Russian ammo to give a d**n about this next merger/train wreck. Check a lot for ammo price increases-the many ammo (and vast number of rifle) choices, along with the plinking give me some power and control, and is lots of fun-safe fun. Would like to go hunt a feral pig soon with a seasoned guide. Not so safe but could be interesting, and we'll be well-armed.
Your so-called 'cohort' on this topic has become detached, and is quite diplomatic. You two could beat each other up on the Internet, but it would not change what your leaders decide to do or not do.
He might remain much healthier, living longer after he retires.
This stuff can eat us up. Some of our previous MEC partly sold us out (mostly the junior guys took the extra hits)...it does not matter any more. Frankly I'm quite cynical now and just don't care anymore to be associated with this company or the industry which cuts as many customer, but also safety corners as it can, and wish I had a second business-would like to leave. Nothing I do will prevent our Upper Mgmt Slime Bags from being awarded huge stock/cash packages. I just fly for the paycheck and benefits, wanting to be really safe and smooth, but really feel sorry for the junior people who were already furloughed up to six years or so.
Expectations mostly lead to big disappointments.
Eternity lasts forever when we die, so why speed up the process?
A quote from Shakespeare helped me deal with the ex- many years ago:
"Misery loves company". Once we understand that, we can learn to be much more detached from what appears to be a personal, or attack on our tribe.
We are all in different 'gangs', or cultures-and there is nothing new about this. It is our human history and it will never stop, while we are alive.
It takes practice to live a bit as we can on our days off, deleting most e-mails before we try to read them, and staying healthy.
These frustrations can consume any of us and we all can justify descriptions of injustice and mistreatment from the other 'barbarian tribes' during a merger. Sure-this sounds foolish and over-simplistic. The only solution is practicing partial, or even total detachment. It is not easy, but we don't need to be a Buddhist or Hindu.
My company went through a merger in the late 80's. For a merger, it wasn't too bad...but-I had ZERO expectations and only wanted to stay as a narrow-body FO at my home base.
We 'may be' in another merger.
Frankly, I really don't care. I delete almost each and every MEC/LEC e-mail on this computer-and never read about 80% of them- because I don't care, and expect this merger to be a real 'train wreck' or 'Katrina', as some of it is caused by the very disturbing trends in fuel prices, and the eternal tribal clashes on this planet. Only 6-9 years to go for me (normal age), but seriously doubt that I can stand this industry too much longer. But my wife has a medical condition and I don't know who pays for health insurance it we retire a good bit early. I hate to go into the crew lounge to ask a really dumb question about such a basic topic.
If we find a new hobby, i.e. plinking with the Mini 14, 30, SKS and M44 rifles...all very handy carbines, it takes our minds away from this miserable industry which won't get any better...
Too busy enjoying running in the woods on days off, or blasting floating grapefruits with fairly cheap, hollow-point Russian ammo to give a d**n about this next merger/train wreck. Check a lot for ammo price increases-the many ammo (and vast number of rifle) choices, along with the plinking give me some power and control, and is lots of fun-safe fun. Would like to go hunt a feral pig soon with a seasoned guide. Not so safe but could be interesting, and we'll be well-armed.
Your so-called 'cohort' on this topic has become detached, and is quite diplomatic. You two could beat each other up on the Internet, but it would not change what your leaders decide to do or not do.
He might remain much healthier, living longer after he retires.
This stuff can eat us up. Some of our previous MEC partly sold us out (mostly the junior guys took the extra hits)...it does not matter any more. Frankly I'm quite cynical now and just don't care anymore to be associated with this company or the industry which cuts as many customer, but also safety corners as it can, and wish I had a second business-would like to leave. Nothing I do will prevent our Upper Mgmt Slime Bags from being awarded huge stock/cash packages. I just fly for the paycheck and benefits, wanting to be really safe and smooth, but really feel sorry for the junior people who were already furloughed up to six years or so.
Expectations mostly lead to big disappointments.
Eternity lasts forever when we die, so why speed up the process?
A quote from Shakespeare helped me deal with the ex- many years ago:
"Misery loves company". Once we understand that, we can learn to be much more detached from what appears to be a personal, or attack on our tribe.
We are all in different 'gangs', or cultures-and there is nothing new about this. It is our human history and it will never stop, while we are alive.
It takes practice to live a bit as we can on our days off, deleting most e-mails before we try to read them, and staying healthy.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 25th May 2008 at 06:28.
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It sounds like this will all be a mute point by late this year. David Boyd of the Colorado consulant group says US Air will be bankrupt by early fall and out of the industry by Christmas. Read his report on his website but without the international routes and low morale there is not much hope for US Air.
First, do you mean Michael Boyd of the Boyd Group? If so, would you mind sharing more facts and less prejudice? What article? Dated when?
Second, US has many Airbus aircraft on order for further international expansion. Given time they will have one of the youngest all Airbus/Embraer fleets in the world. Regarding morale? It varies depending on who you ask, which isn't much different from UAL, NWA, AA, etc,etc.
Finally, anyone in this industry should heed a great line from 'LOST' character 'Ben Linus';
Destiny is a fickle 'b**ch !
Happy Landings,----85Speedbird
Last edited by 85Speedbird; 1st Jun 2008 at 20:26.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,4019823.story
chicagotribune.com
United, US Air fail to reach merger deal
Associated Press
8:23 AM CDT, May 30, 2008
The CEOs of United Airlines and US Airways have told their employees that a combination of the two carriers won't happen “at this time.”
Their messages came a day after a meeting at which United disclosed to the smaller carrier its decision not to pursue a deal.
chicagotribune.com
United, US Air fail to reach merger deal
Associated Press
8:23 AM CDT, May 30, 2008
The CEOs of United Airlines and US Airways have told their employees that a combination of the two carriers won't happen “at this time.”
Their messages came a day after a meeting at which United disclosed to the smaller carrier its decision not to pursue a deal.
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west pilots wake up
AAA had the darling of the legacy carrier’s pension fund. Period!
When the plan was terminated the stock market in 12 months came back 25%. Conservatively the pension probably could have been frozen for 5 to 7 yrs and be 75 to 100% funded.
The Bush administration put the strangle hold on the pilot facilitating the companies wish and every other company to say: if you want the ATSB monies you give us a 7% loan payment.
What government loan is 7%?
After all they caused 911, every wonder why you could lock the cockpit but some schlock could open it with a Boeing Key? A key that all pilots, f/a, mechanics, cleaners have.
The same key Airways gave us that is the Boeing key, would in fact open any Boeing made.
That is EAL, PAA, NWA, UAL, DAL, etc etc etc etc.
And say it’s an old a/c as well. B727, all the fleets.
We had no security in America.
These points were brought up from time to time with our safety reps but nothing ever changed through the FAA, our Government.
Also remember you could carry a box cutter. (That’s how they cut the throats of the f/a and pilots).
So....the point here is. US Airways most profitable Hub DCA were closed. We made 50 cents on every dollar of revenue.
USA closed BAL during this time too? Why? It was the fastest growing airport because the DCA passengers had to travel too; Wolf sold 19 gates for 4 million. Why? Wolf was on a merge at all cost.
The government requiring a 7% loan fee was just what the airline wanted, we can't afford that loan we have obligations to our employees, and Snow job states, "we don't care about your pensions". They could have blended it in but we got the full brunt of their actions.
ALPO could have frozen the pension too (like nwa). And Lets not forget about a pension that was the darling of the legacy carriers.
The enemy has always been management.
If you look into the history of merger changes in language of ALPO it took place as a result of UAL's influence in the union changing doh to:
1. Time in service
2. Has to be fair and equitable for both parties
3. There can be no windfall for any one party
4. Must consider time in service
5. If furloughed you get first right of interview (later changed by active junior pilots on our seniority list 1995 as a result of being threatened with furlough with a bought n paid for no furlough clause).
UAL wrote this language because they were actively attempting a planned merger 1994 era.
Remember when UAL was in merger talks yr 2000 with USAir, there pilots forced the company to reopen contracts, basically a work stoppage, and voted themselves a 30% pay raise. Why? So they could gain from this in the merger language. Career expectations.
Lets not forget the most important thing here, I read on winkapedia that US Airways formed a group called "barbell acquisition group". This was formed with venture capital money and part of US Air Group. This was given to America West Holdings and this is how America West purchased US Airways Group.
Thus with their own money.
So is this the correct way to do business.
I'll answer that after pointing out that management came to each labor group asking their blessing on a merger.
Not an acquisition.
A merger not a "your lucky we saved you"!
What is important to realize is Gerry Glass and company have trashed our contract by whip sawing our groups; they’ve made our lives miserable. The fact remains competent aviators that left US Airways to work in the sandbox made enormous sacrifices to leave a company that has acted unprofessional and malicious.
ALPO has facilitated the enemy's wishes.
If you can understand in a business where labor makes up the day to day business operation as we do. You have to have a merger.
Streamlining businesses to efficiency or more profitability is the buzz word today and back in yr 2000 ual usa merger had a 4% overlap.
But ALPO did our careers a great disservice.
Unlike the AMA which only allows a certain amount of doctors our profession and especially company has diluted the waters with inexperience.
The fact remains, fireman, atc controllers live very well in their retirements but our "profession" has been reduced to a fighting ground amongst ourselves.
However you want to call it, it makes perfect business sense for AMW group to purchase US Airways group with the money Barbell acquisition Group (part of US Air group).
We were already in Chapt 11 once already and were heading there again before AMW.
What is very displeasing to me and other pilots in this profession is to hear the Nicalau award.
I live under the trump shuttle merger.
What he did for our groups does not hold merit of the award.
He did not abide by the four levels of merger protocol. (look above).
We are labor.
Management is evil and as actions speak greater than words our profession has been trashed even further by the Bush administration.
Remember when the NWA f/a's went through the NRLB 30 cooling off and wanted to strike, only to be told they couldn't.
There telling management they can't financially live on the contract terms.
But the Bush administration says you can't strike.
They are nothing but indentured servants!
We lost our pension, our lifetime medical, Nicolau doesn't follow merger language and under a union that we pay 2% of our gross income to.
We've had pilots on furlough for over 12 years. How can that equate to union representation?
We have over 386 small jets outsourcing our jobs as a result of ALPO.
Wake up West pilots!
Management will trash your "career expectations" and force LOA 93 on your careers very soon.
Why continue the rant and rave of a lottery ticket that was issued out of fraud and deception.
We have the tools to fence, and work together as one or we can deal with the un-pleasant future of your jobs detracting and pay undermined with whip sawing of the two groups.
Look at Atlas Air and Polar.
Every time one would go into contract negotiations they would state the other side is not making money and then switch flying to the other side.
It’s unfortunate they did not come together as one and deal with management.
Their evil ones.
If we don't get together on this one, this opportunity, we will have more disparity and quite possibly the inability to ensure our own future in the next merger with UAL or whom ever.
I encourage each and every one of you to swallow what ever pride you have and realize what’s at stake.
We are not here for a grab of your seats.
I request that you do the same and man your committees under USAPA.
After all DOH is the fairest method, and fences as well. It’s our birthdates.
We proved that with the Barbell acquisition we can live another day. Irregardless of who's money? Ask yourself, why ALPO didn’t educate our groups on this acquisition. I don't think Nicolau ever considered that into his equation, it was never mentioned.
Why was that kept as secret amongst our leaders?
It is however being mentioned on the hub at present as voiced by Kirby. "the other side did present a document that showed they had provided the money to be purchased with".
My observation is that ALPO has become a smoke screen for management.
The only thing more chilling is the ATA and their BS; sometimes I think their two in the same.
You have the ability to shape USAPA and protect your careers.
Get on with it and let’s shape OUR future. After all the future is very scary at present, doesn't matter if you’re in aviation or not.
I look forward to the day that we can share time together without apprehension of prejudice.
Regards
stringbender
When the plan was terminated the stock market in 12 months came back 25%. Conservatively the pension probably could have been frozen for 5 to 7 yrs and be 75 to 100% funded.
The Bush administration put the strangle hold on the pilot facilitating the companies wish and every other company to say: if you want the ATSB monies you give us a 7% loan payment.
What government loan is 7%?
After all they caused 911, every wonder why you could lock the cockpit but some schlock could open it with a Boeing Key? A key that all pilots, f/a, mechanics, cleaners have.
The same key Airways gave us that is the Boeing key, would in fact open any Boeing made.
That is EAL, PAA, NWA, UAL, DAL, etc etc etc etc.
And say it’s an old a/c as well. B727, all the fleets.
We had no security in America.
These points were brought up from time to time with our safety reps but nothing ever changed through the FAA, our Government.
Also remember you could carry a box cutter. (That’s how they cut the throats of the f/a and pilots).
So....the point here is. US Airways most profitable Hub DCA were closed. We made 50 cents on every dollar of revenue.
USA closed BAL during this time too? Why? It was the fastest growing airport because the DCA passengers had to travel too; Wolf sold 19 gates for 4 million. Why? Wolf was on a merge at all cost.
The government requiring a 7% loan fee was just what the airline wanted, we can't afford that loan we have obligations to our employees, and Snow job states, "we don't care about your pensions". They could have blended it in but we got the full brunt of their actions.
ALPO could have frozen the pension too (like nwa). And Lets not forget about a pension that was the darling of the legacy carriers.
The enemy has always been management.
If you look into the history of merger changes in language of ALPO it took place as a result of UAL's influence in the union changing doh to:
1. Time in service
2. Has to be fair and equitable for both parties
3. There can be no windfall for any one party
4. Must consider time in service
5. If furloughed you get first right of interview (later changed by active junior pilots on our seniority list 1995 as a result of being threatened with furlough with a bought n paid for no furlough clause).
UAL wrote this language because they were actively attempting a planned merger 1994 era.
Remember when UAL was in merger talks yr 2000 with USAir, there pilots forced the company to reopen contracts, basically a work stoppage, and voted themselves a 30% pay raise. Why? So they could gain from this in the merger language. Career expectations.
Lets not forget the most important thing here, I read on winkapedia that US Airways formed a group called "barbell acquisition group". This was formed with venture capital money and part of US Air Group. This was given to America West Holdings and this is how America West purchased US Airways Group.
Thus with their own money.
So is this the correct way to do business.
I'll answer that after pointing out that management came to each labor group asking their blessing on a merger.
Not an acquisition.
A merger not a "your lucky we saved you"!
What is important to realize is Gerry Glass and company have trashed our contract by whip sawing our groups; they’ve made our lives miserable. The fact remains competent aviators that left US Airways to work in the sandbox made enormous sacrifices to leave a company that has acted unprofessional and malicious.
ALPO has facilitated the enemy's wishes.
If you can understand in a business where labor makes up the day to day business operation as we do. You have to have a merger.
Streamlining businesses to efficiency or more profitability is the buzz word today and back in yr 2000 ual usa merger had a 4% overlap.
But ALPO did our careers a great disservice.
Unlike the AMA which only allows a certain amount of doctors our profession and especially company has diluted the waters with inexperience.
The fact remains, fireman, atc controllers live very well in their retirements but our "profession" has been reduced to a fighting ground amongst ourselves.
However you want to call it, it makes perfect business sense for AMW group to purchase US Airways group with the money Barbell acquisition Group (part of US Air group).
We were already in Chapt 11 once already and were heading there again before AMW.
What is very displeasing to me and other pilots in this profession is to hear the Nicalau award.
I live under the trump shuttle merger.
What he did for our groups does not hold merit of the award.
He did not abide by the four levels of merger protocol. (look above).
We are labor.
Management is evil and as actions speak greater than words our profession has been trashed even further by the Bush administration.
Remember when the NWA f/a's went through the NRLB 30 cooling off and wanted to strike, only to be told they couldn't.
There telling management they can't financially live on the contract terms.
But the Bush administration says you can't strike.
They are nothing but indentured servants!
We lost our pension, our lifetime medical, Nicolau doesn't follow merger language and under a union that we pay 2% of our gross income to.
We've had pilots on furlough for over 12 years. How can that equate to union representation?
We have over 386 small jets outsourcing our jobs as a result of ALPO.
Wake up West pilots!
Management will trash your "career expectations" and force LOA 93 on your careers very soon.
Why continue the rant and rave of a lottery ticket that was issued out of fraud and deception.
We have the tools to fence, and work together as one or we can deal with the un-pleasant future of your jobs detracting and pay undermined with whip sawing of the two groups.
Look at Atlas Air and Polar.
Every time one would go into contract negotiations they would state the other side is not making money and then switch flying to the other side.
It’s unfortunate they did not come together as one and deal with management.
Their evil ones.
If we don't get together on this one, this opportunity, we will have more disparity and quite possibly the inability to ensure our own future in the next merger with UAL or whom ever.
I encourage each and every one of you to swallow what ever pride you have and realize what’s at stake.
We are not here for a grab of your seats.
I request that you do the same and man your committees under USAPA.
After all DOH is the fairest method, and fences as well. It’s our birthdates.
We proved that with the Barbell acquisition we can live another day. Irregardless of who's money? Ask yourself, why ALPO didn’t educate our groups on this acquisition. I don't think Nicolau ever considered that into his equation, it was never mentioned.
Why was that kept as secret amongst our leaders?
It is however being mentioned on the hub at present as voiced by Kirby. "the other side did present a document that showed they had provided the money to be purchased with".
My observation is that ALPO has become a smoke screen for management.
The only thing more chilling is the ATA and their BS; sometimes I think their two in the same.
You have the ability to shape USAPA and protect your careers.
Get on with it and let’s shape OUR future. After all the future is very scary at present, doesn't matter if you’re in aviation or not.
I look forward to the day that we can share time together without apprehension of prejudice.
Regards
stringbender
