Expat Pilots job in USA
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Expat Pilots job in USA
I am sure this issue was addressed before somewhere.
Yet I need to clarify few specific points.
The job advertisements for USA indicates the following:
1. Must hold US Passport.
2. Must be a US Citizen.
3. Must be legally authorized to work in USA.
4. Few ads do not mention anything about Passport, Citizenship or work
authorization requirements.
Now my questions are:
1. Is it officially restricted to recruit expat pilots ( I meam, By Law)?
2. I know in other professions, expats are working in different visa categories and work authorizations.
3. Is there no expat Pilot currently working in USA?
4. If yes, then how the work permit or work authorization can be processed?
I will really appreciate responses having specific clues from someones own experiences and knowledge rather than general comments.
Thanks a lot.
Happy Holidays!
Yet I need to clarify few specific points.
The job advertisements for USA indicates the following:
1. Must hold US Passport.
2. Must be a US Citizen.
3. Must be legally authorized to work in USA.
4. Few ads do not mention anything about Passport, Citizenship or work
authorization requirements.
Now my questions are:
1. Is it officially restricted to recruit expat pilots ( I meam, By Law)?
2. I know in other professions, expats are working in different visa categories and work authorizations.
3. Is there no expat Pilot currently working in USA?
4. If yes, then how the work permit or work authorization can be processed?
I will really appreciate responses having specific clues from someones own experiences and knowledge rather than general comments.
Thanks a lot.
Happy Holidays!
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Very misleading,
1 Passport is not an issue, I have UK passport, all they want is that you have a passport that will allow unlimited exit and entry to US.
2 US Citizen only required for government and security sensitive jobs. Pilot jobs not an issue.
3 Suggest a green card or sponsered by an employer. Sponsership has become very difficult due to plenty of available manpower in the US.
A lot depends on what it is you want to do and for how long, I initially had a student visa which allowed INS authorised employment as long as I remained in study. (I did my Aviation Science Degree and took 8 years to do it, lots of flying!.) I ended up getting married to a US citizen and got a green card so now its a no brainer.
1 Passport is not an issue, I have UK passport, all they want is that you have a passport that will allow unlimited exit and entry to US.
2 US Citizen only required for government and security sensitive jobs. Pilot jobs not an issue.
3 Suggest a green card or sponsered by an employer. Sponsership has become very difficult due to plenty of available manpower in the US.
A lot depends on what it is you want to do and for how long, I initially had a student visa which allowed INS authorised employment as long as I remained in study. (I did my Aviation Science Degree and took 8 years to do it, lots of flying!.) I ended up getting married to a US citizen and got a green card so now its a no brainer.
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Only want to hear from Expat working in USA
I only want to hear from someone who is not a US Citizen, Green Card or Permanent resident and yet working for US operators (Airlines, Regionals, Corporate...).
Is there any pilot around who was sponsored by US companies or manged work permit to work for any US aviation companies? If yes, please respond.
A humble request. If you are not in the above catagory, please don't respond. I don't want to hear any ideas, experiences or suggestions. I appologise for this request. Only first hand info please!
Is there any pilot around who was sponsored by US companies or manged work permit to work for any US aviation companies? If yes, please respond.
A humble request. If you are not in the above catagory, please don't respond. I don't want to hear any ideas, experiences or suggestions. I appologise for this request. Only first hand info please!
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If the advertiser stipulates US Passport you can take it that it is a requirement of that particular operator... probably due to them working in sensitive areas and needing a security clearence that is much easier to obtain if the applicant is a US citizen... there is no legal requirement to be a US citizen.
It is possible for a company (in theory) to sponser an expat applicant and there are provisions within the immigration act to allow for this. Having said that, it is available only to recognized professions where positions are difficult to fill with local (US based) staff... AT THE PRESENT TIME this does not include pilots flying part 121 / 135 or part 91 operations (other than flying instructors).... if you are an experienced test pilot trained by the Empire Test Pilot school and familiar with advanced systems development you may well qualify.
It is possible for a company (in theory) to sponser an expat applicant and there are provisions within the immigration act to allow for this. Having said that, it is available only to recognized professions where positions are difficult to fill with local (US based) staff... AT THE PRESENT TIME this does not include pilots flying part 121 / 135 or part 91 operations (other than flying instructors).... if you are an experienced test pilot trained by the Empire Test Pilot school and familiar with advanced systems development you may well qualify.
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Expats flying for US air carriers
Dear reaz...
xxx
You want to hear "only" from Expats...
Well, I do not meet that stipulation, however I can provide you with some answers to your questions about "Expats working for US air carriers"
xxx
Obviously, as stated by many contributors in this forum, in the many questions answered for the same subject, there has been many answers to your questions. I can offer you a few answers too.
xxx
You see, I worked 1969-1991 for PanAm, and was born in Europe, and initially did not have US Passport and citizenship. And during layoffs, I also worked for US carriers that had foreign citizens, one of these airlines was ONA, Overseas National. in the early 1980s.
xxx
There is no reason to assume that US Law has changed since then. With PanAm, we had a few foreign pilots, I recalled, based at JFK and MIA. Many of them were from UK. I also recall a couple of Canadians. I think that SFO base had a couple of Australians and a New Zealander.
xxx
Back then, the rule was "no foreigner can operate on US domestic flights", and that was no problem with PanAm, 99% of our flights were from the US to overseas points, therefore "international flights". Any US company, it be an airline or any other type of commercial enterprise can hire foreigners - provided they are not employed "within the USA"... PanAm also had numerous cabin crewmembers who were from Europe, or Asia, or South America (because of their language abilities). On our IGS (Internal German Service) operation, 90% of our flight attendants were... German.
xxx
With ONA, we had a base in Jeddah, ACMI to Saudia under the name "UACI", and these pilots or flight attendants operated sometimes to/from the USA, again, no problems, and again, could NOT operate any US domestic flights. ONA had a large number of pilots from Europe.
xxx
I remember also another restriction with PanAm and ONA, which was that in order to operate on military charters (for USAF MAC, now called AMC), it was required that crews, cockpit or cabin, all be US citizens or residents (with a green card). I knew of 2 Belgians with Evergreen. One had a "green card", the other was based in Europe, but occasionally flew to the USA.
xxx
Therefore, you could very well work for a US carrier on international flights, but that would be a hell of a headache for rostering people who are not able to fly on domestic operations. I believe that is one of the factors in US carriers hiring only US citizens or residents.
xxx
I would venture to say that among US airlines, such as World Airways, might be a carrier employing non-citizens/residents on their long-term contracts in Malaysia and Indonesia. If you have lots of experience on MD-11s, might be an idea to send them your C.V., and possibly get a seasonal job based in Kuala Lumpur or Jakarta with them.
xxx
As long as the U.S. airlines have ample supply of applicants who hold US citizenship or resident green card, it is unlikely that they will hire foreign pilots and I can see this situation continuing for a while.
xxx
Look at me - I eventually became a US citizen etc... but when PanAm folded in 1991, I elected to move and work overseas in view of the poor conditions and low wages for new hire pilot employment in the USA... Nowadays, if I was employed with a US airline that would stop operations, I definitely would look for a job in Europe or the Middle East.
xxx
Have you looked at Wall Street and the Dow Jones Average lately...? The USA is in the middle of a (new) severe depression, even if their CNN, ABC, CBS, and NBC do not admit it (yet) to their viewers. You see, my news here overseas, are from other diversified sources... So why would you want to work there, and be paid in US Dollars with half the value of what it used to be worth...
xxx
You want to live in USA, then go and buy a house in Florida, they are bargain right now due to the depressed housing market. It is easy to "live in the US", own a house there and "exit" every 90 days, as some Canadians do, (your I-94 visa limit) and go work for an airline in Doha or Dubai...
xxx
The only outstanding thing about the USA is pilot schools, with fast and excellent training, at an affordable price. My son just completed a CPL/IR and Learjet type rating in the USA in record time at record price and got himself a Lear co-pilot job, here in Argentina, within 30 days of receipt of his pilot license...
xxx
All the best to you -
Happy contrails
xxx
You want to hear "only" from Expats...
Well, I do not meet that stipulation, however I can provide you with some answers to your questions about "Expats working for US air carriers"
xxx
Obviously, as stated by many contributors in this forum, in the many questions answered for the same subject, there has been many answers to your questions. I can offer you a few answers too.
xxx
You see, I worked 1969-1991 for PanAm, and was born in Europe, and initially did not have US Passport and citizenship. And during layoffs, I also worked for US carriers that had foreign citizens, one of these airlines was ONA, Overseas National. in the early 1980s.
xxx
There is no reason to assume that US Law has changed since then. With PanAm, we had a few foreign pilots, I recalled, based at JFK and MIA. Many of them were from UK. I also recall a couple of Canadians. I think that SFO base had a couple of Australians and a New Zealander.
xxx
Back then, the rule was "no foreigner can operate on US domestic flights", and that was no problem with PanAm, 99% of our flights were from the US to overseas points, therefore "international flights". Any US company, it be an airline or any other type of commercial enterprise can hire foreigners - provided they are not employed "within the USA"... PanAm also had numerous cabin crewmembers who were from Europe, or Asia, or South America (because of their language abilities). On our IGS (Internal German Service) operation, 90% of our flight attendants were... German.
xxx
With ONA, we had a base in Jeddah, ACMI to Saudia under the name "UACI", and these pilots or flight attendants operated sometimes to/from the USA, again, no problems, and again, could NOT operate any US domestic flights. ONA had a large number of pilots from Europe.
xxx
I remember also another restriction with PanAm and ONA, which was that in order to operate on military charters (for USAF MAC, now called AMC), it was required that crews, cockpit or cabin, all be US citizens or residents (with a green card). I knew of 2 Belgians with Evergreen. One had a "green card", the other was based in Europe, but occasionally flew to the USA.
xxx
Therefore, you could very well work for a US carrier on international flights, but that would be a hell of a headache for rostering people who are not able to fly on domestic operations. I believe that is one of the factors in US carriers hiring only US citizens or residents.
xxx
I would venture to say that among US airlines, such as World Airways, might be a carrier employing non-citizens/residents on their long-term contracts in Malaysia and Indonesia. If you have lots of experience on MD-11s, might be an idea to send them your C.V., and possibly get a seasonal job based in Kuala Lumpur or Jakarta with them.
xxx
As long as the U.S. airlines have ample supply of applicants who hold US citizenship or resident green card, it is unlikely that they will hire foreign pilots and I can see this situation continuing for a while.
xxx
Look at me - I eventually became a US citizen etc... but when PanAm folded in 1991, I elected to move and work overseas in view of the poor conditions and low wages for new hire pilot employment in the USA... Nowadays, if I was employed with a US airline that would stop operations, I definitely would look for a job in Europe or the Middle East.
xxx
Have you looked at Wall Street and the Dow Jones Average lately...? The USA is in the middle of a (new) severe depression, even if their CNN, ABC, CBS, and NBC do not admit it (yet) to their viewers. You see, my news here overseas, are from other diversified sources... So why would you want to work there, and be paid in US Dollars with half the value of what it used to be worth...
xxx
You want to live in USA, then go and buy a house in Florida, they are bargain right now due to the depressed housing market. It is easy to "live in the US", own a house there and "exit" every 90 days, as some Canadians do, (your I-94 visa limit) and go work for an airline in Doha or Dubai...
xxx
The only outstanding thing about the USA is pilot schools, with fast and excellent training, at an affordable price. My son just completed a CPL/IR and Learjet type rating in the USA in record time at record price and got himself a Lear co-pilot job, here in Argentina, within 30 days of receipt of his pilot license...
xxx
All the best to you -
Happy contrails
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Spirit Airlines
Take a look at their web site.
The pilot requirements include a valid passport that allows you to enter and exit the US. They do not mention anything about being an US citizen or US resident.
AA
The pilot requirements include a valid passport that allows you to enter and exit the US. They do not mention anything about being an US citizen or US resident.
AA
Last edited by allatp; 14th Feb 2008 at 02:55.
Still won't get you a job
Part of the requirement to work for a 121 carrier in the US, is that you must provide proof of US citizenship prior to starting your sim training. If you can't do that you have to get a TSA security check, part of which is proof that you have the right to legally work and live in the US, ie a Green Card.
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The US Regionals are positively overrun with (mostly european) expats. Seriously, flying in to Memphis during the Pinnacle push sounds like you're in Brussels. I assure you there's a way to do it, and it can't be that hard because every Tom, Dick, and Jacques is doing it.
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Green Cards / citizenship and the TSA have nothing to do with each other. All foreigners coming to the USA for aircraft specific training need to get a TSA approval.
It absolutely true that you do need your TSA approval before you start your sim sessions.
Dont see the link to a green card though.
It absolutely true that you do need your TSA approval before you start your sim sessions.
Dont see the link to a green card though.
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The US Regionals are positively overrun with (mostly european) expats. Seriously, flying in to Memphis during the Pinnacle push sounds like you're in Brussels. I assure you there's a way to do it, and it can't be that hard because every Tom, Dick, and Jacques is doing it.
This is very misleading information you just posted. I worked at Pinnacle for six years and yes, there are a LOT of Europeans, Africans, Asians and everything under the sun working there. But I can assure you that every single person working there has the right to work legally in the United States. I recommended a good friend of mine to work there after I had left and he did get the interview and the job offer with the condition that he presented his "permanent" residence alien card, my friend had just received his green card but it was the temporary certificate that they give you until the permanent one arrives on the mail. Pinnacle would not assign him a class date until the permanent card arrived on the mail and that caused him to get in a later class date.
Also the aviation field is not one of the careers listed for the application of residence visas by professionals that is currently flooding the medical field in the US with doctors and nurses from other countries (specially India and the middle east) The INS does NOT consider aviation to comply with the requirement to issue such visas because there is no lack of supply of domestic pilots (lack of experienced pilots perhaps, but not a lack of supply)
As it stands right now, there is NO way to obtain a job in the aviation field in the United States without having legal right to work and reside there.
Sorry
Green Cards / citizenship and the TSA have nothing to do with each other. All foreigners coming to the USA for aircraft specific training need to get a TSA approval.
It absolutely true that you do need your TSA approval before you start your sim sessions.
Dont see the link to a green card though.
It absolutely true that you do need your TSA approval before you start your sim sessions.
Dont see the link to a green card though.
I just had to talk to the person at my company who deals with the TSA and he verified that particular point.
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The Dominican -
xxx
I wish you had printed your last lines in "1 inch bold red print" - Despite your very accurate statements about US visas, green cards or passports, this forum will continue to be flooded by inquiries in the style "I know this has been posted before, but..." about seeking a job as pilot in the USA...
xxx
I would say, as it stands now, and for the near future, FORGET IT, and NO, NOT POSSIBLE.
xxx
Besides all that, there is one thing I fail to understand by those people who ask information, is "why in hell" consider immigration and employment with US airlines after knowing the low level of salaries and benefits offered there. I bailed out of that zoo, 15 years ago. Back then, things were bad, now it is even worse.
xxx
Unless you are in the top 1000/2000 pilots on the seniority list of AA, Delta or United, all experienced US pilots often seek employment in Europe, Asia or the Middle East, in view of better salaries, benefits and quality of life. The only thing that USA and FAA are great for, is pilot training and licenses. After that, go to Frankfurt, Dubai or Seoul for your aviation career.
xxx
Do you want to be a pilot based in gorgeous Detroit or Cleveland for a regional carrier at the first year salary of US$18,000/year...? Would you be happy with 10 days of yearly paid vacation, when a European or Asian airline offers 30 days...? Is it ok to have a medical insurance that takes 6 months to be effective with lots of restrictions, requiring you to pay extra to cover your spouse and kids...? How about retirement...? How about travel benefits only valid on rainy wednesdays at night...? And have you ever read about exchange rates of the Euro and Sterling, with the US Dollar, and worsening as Wall Street goes down...?
xxx
NO THANKS, not my cup of tea.
xxx
Or maybe a solution, for masochists - marry a US citizen, and live with her/him for at least 2 years. US ladies especially, have mastered the expertise of divorce alimonies and support payments. I know many of my friends who left the US for overseas airlines, to avoid paying the ex-wives half of their meager airline salary.
xxx
The USA is a great place - to visit for vacations, and shopping.
Do you know about "food simulators"...? - McDonald's are superior culinary restaurants to enjoy.
(Their hamburgers almost taste like real food...) -
xxx
Happy contrails, sorry guys...
xxx
I wish you had printed your last lines in "1 inch bold red print" - Despite your very accurate statements about US visas, green cards or passports, this forum will continue to be flooded by inquiries in the style "I know this has been posted before, but..." about seeking a job as pilot in the USA...
xxx
I would say, as it stands now, and for the near future, FORGET IT, and NO, NOT POSSIBLE.
xxx
Besides all that, there is one thing I fail to understand by those people who ask information, is "why in hell" consider immigration and employment with US airlines after knowing the low level of salaries and benefits offered there. I bailed out of that zoo, 15 years ago. Back then, things were bad, now it is even worse.
xxx
Unless you are in the top 1000/2000 pilots on the seniority list of AA, Delta or United, all experienced US pilots often seek employment in Europe, Asia or the Middle East, in view of better salaries, benefits and quality of life. The only thing that USA and FAA are great for, is pilot training and licenses. After that, go to Frankfurt, Dubai or Seoul for your aviation career.
xxx
Do you want to be a pilot based in gorgeous Detroit or Cleveland for a regional carrier at the first year salary of US$18,000/year...? Would you be happy with 10 days of yearly paid vacation, when a European or Asian airline offers 30 days...? Is it ok to have a medical insurance that takes 6 months to be effective with lots of restrictions, requiring you to pay extra to cover your spouse and kids...? How about retirement...? How about travel benefits only valid on rainy wednesdays at night...? And have you ever read about exchange rates of the Euro and Sterling, with the US Dollar, and worsening as Wall Street goes down...?
xxx
NO THANKS, not my cup of tea.
xxx
Or maybe a solution, for masochists - marry a US citizen, and live with her/him for at least 2 years. US ladies especially, have mastered the expertise of divorce alimonies and support payments. I know many of my friends who left the US for overseas airlines, to avoid paying the ex-wives half of their meager airline salary.
xxx
The USA is a great place - to visit for vacations, and shopping.
Do you know about "food simulators"...? - McDonald's are superior culinary restaurants to enjoy.
(Their hamburgers almost taste like real food...) -
xxx
Happy contrails, sorry guys...
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Spirit Airlines ?
I went online and it seems that Spirit airlines is an airline actually recruiting expat pilot...
Does anybody is familiar with them or have a number from their chief pilot or recruitment manager ?
I would love to be based in Fort Lauderdale.
Does anybody is familiar with them or have a number from their chief pilot or recruitment manager ?
I would love to be based in Fort Lauderdale.
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malc4d: You must be blissfully unaware of the regional pilot shortage, or the schemes between schools and regional operators, whereby doing something akin to JAA MCC with them guarantees you an interview?
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NO Expat pilots in USA
Sorry, there are NO expat pilot jobs in the US at present.
You can work as a CFI with a J1 Visa.
Pt 121 carriers require TSA and FBI clearance for pilots so you will need to have at least a Green Card to work for a Pt 121 carrier.
You may try individual pt 135 companies to see if they will hire you, since there is a shortage of pt 135 pilots at the present time and there is a possibilty of obtaining a H1 Visa for a pt 135 operation.
I understand that WE are allowed to fly as expat pilots, but its not the other way around.
All the best...fly safe.....
You can work as a CFI with a J1 Visa.
Pt 121 carriers require TSA and FBI clearance for pilots so you will need to have at least a Green Card to work for a Pt 121 carrier.
You may try individual pt 135 companies to see if they will hire you, since there is a shortage of pt 135 pilots at the present time and there is a possibilty of obtaining a H1 Visa for a pt 135 operation.
I understand that WE are allowed to fly as expat pilots, but its not the other way around.
All the best...fly safe.....
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Can I add my 2 cents worth of query.
I am exploring the possibility of living in the US with my wife who has been offered expat work there. Greencard is not a short or medium term option so I need a job employed outside the US that enables either basing in the US or commute to the US on days off.
Do companies such as ANA or EVA or others employ non greencard holders that can be based in the US. Can a foreign airline base crews in the US with non US passports such as australian.
Any info would be appreciated.
I am exploring the possibility of living in the US with my wife who has been offered expat work there. Greencard is not a short or medium term option so I need a job employed outside the US that enables either basing in the US or commute to the US on days off.
Do companies such as ANA or EVA or others employ non greencard holders that can be based in the US. Can a foreign airline base crews in the US with non US passports such as australian.
Any info would be appreciated.
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For oicur2 -
Should you research for a foreign carrier with US base turn impossible, look at the Asian carriers. If I remember well, some of these airlines have crews with a base in YVR Vancouver, BC - Canada - I cannot recall which ones, could be EVA, Asiana, KAL, Cathay, etc...
xxx
Commuting from YVR is as easy as to commute from Seattle to other points in the USA. It could be an alternative solution for you. As your wife will have a employment visa for the US, she can apply on your behalf for you to receive a visa permitting you to reside, and be present in the US (although not permitting you to work). In your case, I would call on a US Immigration law firm to find a solution, but wait until she is established herself. In any case, apply for a standard US tourist visa (besides your crew visa should you get one with the Asian carrier mention above).
xxx
Good luck to you -
Happy contrails
xxx
Commuting from YVR is as easy as to commute from Seattle to other points in the USA. It could be an alternative solution for you. As your wife will have a employment visa for the US, she can apply on your behalf for you to receive a visa permitting you to reside, and be present in the US (although not permitting you to work). In your case, I would call on a US Immigration law firm to find a solution, but wait until she is established herself. In any case, apply for a standard US tourist visa (besides your crew visa should you get one with the Asian carrier mention above).
xxx
Good luck to you -
Happy contrails
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You don't have to be a citizen. You just have to have a green card, but they won't sponsor for your greencard. I have tried for over a year and now I gave up as literally every single airline HR people told me that they will never sponsor me. In fact I had pretty close connection to 3 regionals via their company cheif pilots and even they couldn't get the HR to help me out with it.
Those Europeans people are talking about must have green card. If you have a green card you are all set, but if you don't have greencard than my experience says you have no chance. In fact an HR lady at a regional yelled at me for wasting her time when I told her that I have a work permit and I need her help to transfer it to their company.
But of course you never know. Sometimes they hire guys who shouldn't even drive cars and sometimes they turn down guys that should get the job before anybody else.
I have a work permit. I got called by every single regionals for interview except Skywest and Expressjet. Only PSA even give me the chance to interview. The sais bye as soon as I said I have a work permit.
Those Europeans people are talking about must have green card. If you have a green card you are all set, but if you don't have greencard than my experience says you have no chance. In fact an HR lady at a regional yelled at me for wasting her time when I told her that I have a work permit and I need her help to transfer it to their company.
But of course you never know. Sometimes they hire guys who shouldn't even drive cars and sometimes they turn down guys that should get the job before anybody else.
I have a work permit. I got called by every single regionals for interview except Skywest and Expressjet. Only PSA even give me the chance to interview. The sais bye as soon as I said I have a work permit.
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Any us citizen who runs a business can sponsor any foreign national for a work permit or green card. Part 121 career is capable of doing that, but of course they won't do it.
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EVA, Cathay etc. have US bases, but in order to get those if you have to have a greencard. The flying market here is great, but if you are not a greencard holder you are out of luck. I had been trying to get on for over a year now and I'm sick of instructing. Considering the way things are going I think pretty soon I'll have to pack up and go back home. Instructing is really bad these days because the student load is just dead right now.