cockpit crews not getting along
 

just read that there might be a little problem with the captains and first officers at SAS. appearantly they do not get along very well!!!! well, i would like to give all my 2 cents............. you old military pilots need to lighten up, what we do, is not rocket science, even though you might think so. and also, you are no longer in the military and therefore the first officers need NOT to take your stupid orders. you might think it is okay to tell "your" first officer how to use "your" technic to fly the airplane...it is not cool at all. so you idiot captain, just let "your"first officer fly the airplane their way!!! good on all you first officer.............give all the idiot captains hell.

The way I heard it, it's the younger FOs that's giving the older 60+ captains all this grief because they want them to retire so they can move up the ladder...

I heard the same. Apparently it's all due to the EU/EEC pension age being established at 65, giving the senior crew the odd 5 years extra service time in comparison to the previous arrangement. I also heard rumours about the youngest FO in SAS being 40 years old. If that is the case, I can understand the frustration, although it wouldn't justify the use of threats and misbehaviour to force early resignations.

This is just another example of how the national tabloids are still in vacation mode and don`t really have anything to write about. But the accusations are such that SAS needed to put forth a statement to the contrary. Don`t think this is a problem personally, as I`ve never heard of it before. "Problem" meaning that I don`t think it`s a widespread issue.

Icenor and aloha, I heard the same - that it has to do with senior Captains flying past their retirement age within the company.

All the while these captains are flying past 60, and younger FOs are still furloughed with possibly hundreds more to come - I can appreciate the "younger" pilots' somewhat hostile attitude towards the selfish 60+ guys. I would sure as !!!! be pi§§ed off if I got the boot, and some 60+ ego-trippers were still in their left seat, cashing in both pension and full captain's salary...
On the other hand - what they are doing is 100% legal, and it all comes down to one's own moral principles and standards. I also know that a few of these 60+ pilots have had trouble with their pension schemes, and were shafted by the company when they made the switch from WF to SC back in the nineties.
Always two sides to it I suppose. Either way, these 60+ guys have had their time to prepare for retirement at 60. They did not know about the 65 rule back then, and should have planned for retirement accordingly...

Unfair to ask the captains to retire in my opinion. At the end of the day we all look out for no 1, and that's just the way it is. You don't hear too many FOs willing to reduce their own salary so the company can hire some low-hour wannabees and give them a foot-in, right?

Relations in the SK NORGE cockpit has never been better. This is blown out of proportions!!

Gnirren......:ugh:

Nothing morally wrong in staying in your vocational profession as long as you want.

One aspires for it , one trains for it and some pay for it dearly. So enjoying it is everyone's privilege and right. We ALL hope to get there and wish that we can...

Not senior commanders' fault, if the company wades in trouble year after year...SAS needs a heads up call, needed it years ago...

Time for some eggsucking...

S

But what isn`t clear to me yet... The industrial agreement (company vs union) is retirement at 60? No? And of course the JAA/EU maximum age is 65. So what gives? Isn`t the airline overstaffed? And why and how has this deal, sidestepping an agreement, been made? :confused:

Stanleycup said You have a US tag on your avatar so from a US point of view, you are quite incorrect.
The FARs are quite clear there is only one PILOT IN COMMAND. Granted a good crew works together and does not get to the point where the PIC has to give commands but it happens.

And it is usually referred to as a 'technique', not a 'technic'. Most of the PICs are happy to leave the F/O to his/her own devices as long as they abide by procedure and do a good job. The problem sometimes arises however that the new guys/gals don't know half as much as they think they do. And you're right. It is not rocket science but it is also not just a moving video game.

A bit of advice which will probably be wasted.. if you feel this adamant and angry while still just a F/O, you may not last long enough to make Capt and if you do, you may not make it to retirement. Anger and stress have a way of quieting things down while reducing body temperature... to room temperature.

wileydog3......Your post is excellent and to the point

O:D

Well put "kernel". Still have the burning desire to always give out some of your expert advice. I rest my case....................

Stanleycup:

I'm hoping -just hoping- that you really don't fly an airplane for a living. And if you do, then we truly, truly (can't emphasise this enough) need a better screening program for this profession.

The reason that 110 of you younger cadet pilots are out of work is simply that 110 of the oldest SAS captains will not accept that they at the age of 60 have earned a full wage for 30-40 years, and have a full pension scheem paid on their behalf!

The most selfish pilots since flying was borne!

Shame on them!

H

Not really. Whether you take the advice or not matters little to me. I don't have to fly with you. With 40+yrs in the cockpit (military, gen-av, airline) I have seen more than a few guys self-destruct due to anger and stress. But by all means.. have at it.

As noted, the FARs, not me, says you don't have a case. There is only one PIC and that person is authorized by the Federal government to give commands, not the SIC. And unless the PIC operates outside the ops manual issued by the carrier and approved by the FAA, the SIC has no basis for not complying.

But to give you the benefit of the doubt, how many hours do you have? What do you fly now and what did the 'idiot pilot' do that triggered your diatribe?

Hanguren said Who paid for the pension? Surely you are not suggesting that the company is paying it as some form of largesse. Pensions are deferred income set aside as part of the total compensation package. At least they are in the US.

Selfish? If I understand your argument, you think that one group should stop being selfish and impeding another group from doing what they want. If so, it seems that the cadets are also being selfish.. and should stop trying to take jobs from old pilots.

So basically it`s a dog eat dog world, but we still have to get along in the pointy end of an aircraft:E Go figure:}

The total compensation package includes pension, paid by the company, and the same collective agreement states that pilots shall retire at the age of 60. The EU laws against age discrimination make some problem to this part of the agreement, but it seems like the parties finally have found a way around it:
Take Off - Daily

http://tmcomponents.travelmarket.com...svinge1401.jpg Nu afgøres SAS-piloters skæbne


SAS-ledelsen mødes i dag med repræsentanter for selskabets pilotforeninger. Parterne skal drøfte fremtiden for 110 piloter, som bliver overflødige om et år, når de planlagte 18 fly parkeres.

Torsdag middag mødes SAS-ledelsen med repræsentanter for selskabets omkring 1850 piloter for at drøfte, om det er muligt ad frivillighedens vej at finde en løsning for de omkring 110 fuldtidspiloter, som bliver overflødige, når selskabet som led i spareplanerne om et år har sat de planlagte 18 ekstra fly på jorden. Det skriver epn.dk

Formanden for de danske piloter, Mogens Holgaard, siger til Ritzau, at piloterne i Norge, Danmark og Sverige i hvert land har undersøgt, hvor mange der er interesseret i deltidsstillinger for på den måde at komme overtalligheden til livs.

Blandt de danske piloter har interessen for frivilligt at trappe ned været stor. Præcis hvor mange der ønsker en deltidsstilling til reduceret løn har han ikke et nøjagtigt tal på, og derfor er Mogens Holgaard spændt på udfaldet af torsdagens møde.

”Jeg håber, at vi kan klare det ad frivillighedens vej, men det afhænger af, om puslespillet går op. Ellers er vi enige om, at det ikke er de yngste piloter, der skal ud. Så må det i første omgang være de piloter, som er berettiget til at gå på pension,” siger Mogens Holgaard.

Where do you think the money to pay the pension comes from?

One of us does not understand how pensions are funded.