Any news on Norwegian 787 Operations?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any news on Norwegian 787 Operations?
Gents,
I applied to it but Rishworth was going to aquire info from Norwegian if they accept my Boeing C17 experience as being a current Boeing pilot.
So far I did not hear of them.
Is there anyone out there that applied for this job and has more info about how the recruiting is going?
Cheers!!
I applied to it but Rishworth was going to aquire info from Norwegian if they accept my Boeing C17 experience as being a current Boeing pilot.
So far I did not hear of them.
Is there anyone out there that applied for this job and has more info about how the recruiting is going?
Cheers!!
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Europe and Beyond
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello all:
I consider myself very lucky because I have pass the assessment and I will work N.L.H.
The assessment consist of 3 phases :
1- Skype interview with the agency and they answer your questions
2- Interview in Norway: With the chief pilot of B787 ( not sure) and a lady, both very nice and they review your CV with you and ask you questions about it (nothing technical)
2-Simulator:
The screening will take place in a B737-800 simulator
Origin and destination is Bergen, ENBR.
Normal Take Off
FD ILS
Takeoff with engine failure or severe damage
Single Engine Localizer
Single Engine Missed Approach
Single Engine ILS, F/D only.
Its like an standard LPC, they don't expect a perfect flight especially if you don't flight the B737, Just good CRM and common sense.
First you are PNF - 5 min break - PF
With all the delays due the B787 battery problems there have been some delays joining, I believe it will be June when everything sets in motion.
When you talk to them, they answer all your question and you see there is nothing "fishy" , I believe its a fair deal, more or less like my just ex-employer but for the B787 and better commuting home
Best of luck to everybody and happy landings
I consider myself very lucky because I have pass the assessment and I will work N.L.H.
The assessment consist of 3 phases :
1- Skype interview with the agency and they answer your questions
2- Interview in Norway: With the chief pilot of B787 ( not sure) and a lady, both very nice and they review your CV with you and ask you questions about it (nothing technical)
2-Simulator:
The screening will take place in a B737-800 simulator
Origin and destination is Bergen, ENBR.
Normal Take Off
FD ILS
Takeoff with engine failure or severe damage
Single Engine Localizer
Single Engine Missed Approach
Single Engine ILS, F/D only.
Its like an standard LPC, they don't expect a perfect flight especially if you don't flight the B737, Just good CRM and common sense.
First you are PNF - 5 min break - PF
With all the delays due the B787 battery problems there have been some delays joining, I believe it will be June when everything sets in motion.
When you talk to them, they answer all your question and you see there is nothing "fishy" , I believe its a fair deal, more or less like my just ex-employer but for the B787 and better commuting home
Best of luck to everybody and happy landings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: here
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A good deal. What is your standard? Did you work for a bus company ? For an CPT 10000 CRC 8000 FO 6000 euro including daily allowances gross no pension contribution, no ZED tickets, nothing. You will have to demonstrate you paid taxes ( min 30% in Thailand but according to my info most probably in your country of origin) no real base as you will not have any kind of visa ( you cannot stay more than one month in Thailand that means you will not be able to relocate) no accommodation, no allowances period. You will end up in B category Hotels either in Thailand or in Scandinavia with your luggage. This is good if you a retired old fart stealing jobs from people that needs them just for fun or because you too mentally limited to find a way to enjoy you retirement...but for long haul flying is the worst ever seen and just a way to avoid social costs and taxation like a Gulf carrier. And the 787 ..just another airplane.
Last edited by cucuotto; 27th Apr 2013 at 05:59.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Terra Firma
Age: 45
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Norwegians Egne Piloter Henter Flyene
Kom over denne artikkelen: VG Nett - Norwegian får Dreamliner i juni - Hjelper deg reiseliv
Og siden jeg er av den oppfatning at det er sterkt misvisende å skrive at Norwegians egne piloter henter flyene så sendte jeg følgende epost til journalisten:
Kjære Dag Fonbak.
Vil bare gjøre deg oppmerksom på en faktafeil i din artikkel: Norwegian får Dreamliner i Juni: VG Nett - Norwegian får Dreamliner i juni - Hjelper deg reiseliv .
Du skriver at Norwegians egne piloter skal hente flyene i USA. For det første er ikke dette piloter som jobber i Norwegian, for det andre er det ikke Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA som skal operere flyene.
I kollektivavtalen som pilotene i Norwegian har med sin arbeidsgiver står det innledningsvis:
^Alle operasjoner er underlagt den til enhver tid gjeldende k-avtale mellom Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA og Norwegian Pilotforening. Pilotene ansettes i Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA.
Kollektivavtalen omfatter alle flygere som er ansatt i Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA med base i Norge, Sverige eller Danmark.
Partene vil i fellesskap vurdere og forhandle om utvidelse av omfangsområdet dersom NAS senere åpner baser utenfor Norge, Sverige eller Danmark.^
Blandt annet for å unngå å måtte forholde seg til fagforeninger, dernest sitt arbeidgiveransvar og norsk lovgivning så har ledelsen av Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA valgt å opprette datterselskapet Norwegian Long Haul ASA som de nye langruteflyene skal registreres i. Vips, så har man vridd seg ut av kollektivavtalen med fagforeningen.
Ledelsen i Norwegian har med beundring sett på Ryanairs evne til å skape enorm profitt ved å operere i gråsonen av EU´s regelverk. Filosofien er at ansatte er et nødvendig onde og en uønsket økonomisk byrde og enhver mulighet til å få nødvendig mannskap så billig som mulig skal utnyttes. Det at det er de ansattes lojalitet, entusiasme og stå-på vilje som har bygget Norwegians suksess fra oppstarten er fullstendig uinteressant.
Så flyselskapet og pilotene som nå skal fly B787 på ruter i Europa som innkjøring som du skriver om kommer til gjøre dette i direkte konkurranse med det som faktisk er Norwegians egne piloter.
FAKTA:
Pilotene i Norwegian Long Haul ASA rekruteres av vikarbyrået Risworth Aviation og leies derfra inn på kortsiktige kontrakter til Norwegian Long Haul ASA under elendige vilkår. Ingen pensjon, ingen helseforsikring jfr. Norsk standard og ingen arbeidsgiver avgift for Norwegian å betale til den Norske stat. Pilotene blir på papiret basert i Bangkok. Mens i realiteten vil flyene produsere ruter som du vet f.eks. Oslo-New York og København-Fort Lauderdale. Det eneste som ligger i begrepet "Base" i Bangkok er at en Nordmann eller Danske som er pilot i denne operasjonen må selv betale for å pendle til Bangkok for å begynne sin arbeidsperiode der, og dekke sine egne utgifter til opphold ved eventuell nattstopp der. Samtidig har Norwegian elegant sneket seg unna alle kostnader og forpliktelser i henhold til Norsk arbeidsmiljølov og skatteregler da dette ifølge dem dreier seg om en produksjon i Thailand
HVORDAN:
Hvordan får dem da kvalifisert mannskap til slike vilkår kan du spørre om? Her skal jeg gi deg to eksempel, en kaptein og en styrmann:
1. Nederlandsk Kaptein, bor i Amsterdam.
Kaptein X er pensjonert fra KLM, han har hatt en lang og god karriære der, ikke minst en solid kollektivavtale som sikret han en solid pensjonsavtale med avgangsalder 56 år. Nå savner han flygingen, han er erfaren på langruteflygning med Boeingfly og passer perfekt til Norwegians nye 787 operasjon. Han er en frisk og oppegående 56 åring og kunne godt tenke seg å fly noen år til og synes det er spennende å bli sjekket ut på den nye Boeing 787. Han har full pensjon og alle sosiale rettigheter i Nederland så det at kontrakten gjennom Risworth har elendige vilkår sammenlignet med det Long Haul pilotene i KLM, Lufthansa og SAS har spiller ikke så stor rolle for han. Dessåuten reiser han jo som pensjonert KLM kaptein gratis mellom Amsterdam og Bangkok med KLM.
2. Norsk Styrmann, bor i Oslo.
Styrmann Y er 35 år og etter en dyr pilotutdanning og mange år med jobbsøking sitter han med mye gjeld og ingen annen utdanning som gir innpass i andre yrker med krav til fagkompetanse. Han har på toppen av sin dyre pilotutdanning betalt selv for utsjekk på Boeing 737 og såkalt linetraining 500 timer. Dvs. han har fløyet som styrmann på Boeing 737 i 500 timer hos Lionair i Indonesia uten lønn for å få den erfaringen som kanskje kan gi han en jobb han så lenge har drømt om. Dette gjorde han i desperasjon for å få et bein innenfor i bransjen og få brukt sin dyre utdanning så den ikke skulle være bortkastet. Lionair i Indonesia driver slikt salg av "Linetraining" i stor skala som en måte å få gratis styrmenn, som faktisk betaler for å fly for dem. Du kan google Lionair, så vil du se hvilken sikkerhetsstatistikk dem har.
Dette har kostet han 350 000,- tillagt den allerede store utdanningsgjelden. Etter dette fikk han en 6 måneders sommerkontrakt i det danske selskapet Primera som leier inn piloter på korte kontrakter for å dekke toppene i sommerproduksjonen.
Styrmann Y er nå arbeidsledig, han har stor gjeld og akkurat passert 1000 timer på Boeing 737, dermed passer han perfekt inn i Norwegians planer. Ved kjøp av B787 har nemmelig Norwegian fått med på kjøpet av Boeing trening og utsjekk for et visst antall piloter. Kravet for dette kurset er at piloten har 1000 timer fra før på en nyere Boeing maskin.
Styrmann Y synes Risworth kontrakten er elendig, men han ser at han ved å skaffe seg et billig krypinn i Bangkok og ved å ikke betale noe skatt noe sted kan ha en bra livstil i Thailand på den bruttosummen som blir utbetalt på kontrakten. I kontrakten står det forøvrig at lønnen utbetales brutto til en konto på Isle of Man og det er piloten som selv er ansvarlig for alle forpliktelser vedrørende skatt, trygd og forsikringer samt at under alle omstendigheter skal Norwegian Longhaul og Risworth Aviation holdes skadesløse i disse saker. Styrmann Y har ikke lyst å bli Skattesnyter men for å ha råd til å ta denne jobben, og samtidig beholde leiligheten i Oslo, må han gjøre det slik.
Slik er realiteten i Europeisk luftfart i dag Fonbak, men kanskje ikke dette skaper overskrifter som selger godt nok til at VG vil skrive om det.
Du har fått denne informasjonen i form av en anonym e-post da ansatte i luftfart i norge i dag, hos enkelte flyselskap, bare kan kysse enhver karriærestige farvel om man står frem offentlig. For å innhente offisielle uttalelser og kommentarer rundt de tingene jeg har tatt opp henviser jeg til:
Norsk Flygerforbund: Norsk Flygerforbund
Norwegian Pilot Union: [email protected]
Denne eposten er også postet i pilotforumet PPRuNe Forums - Professional Pilots Rumour Network og saken blir diskutert der.
Med vennlig hilsen
Jonas
Og siden jeg er av den oppfatning at det er sterkt misvisende å skrive at Norwegians egne piloter henter flyene så sendte jeg følgende epost til journalisten:
Kjære Dag Fonbak.
Vil bare gjøre deg oppmerksom på en faktafeil i din artikkel: Norwegian får Dreamliner i Juni: VG Nett - Norwegian får Dreamliner i juni - Hjelper deg reiseliv .
Du skriver at Norwegians egne piloter skal hente flyene i USA. For det første er ikke dette piloter som jobber i Norwegian, for det andre er det ikke Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA som skal operere flyene.
I kollektivavtalen som pilotene i Norwegian har med sin arbeidsgiver står det innledningsvis:
^Alle operasjoner er underlagt den til enhver tid gjeldende k-avtale mellom Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA og Norwegian Pilotforening. Pilotene ansettes i Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA.
Kollektivavtalen omfatter alle flygere som er ansatt i Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA med base i Norge, Sverige eller Danmark.
Partene vil i fellesskap vurdere og forhandle om utvidelse av omfangsområdet dersom NAS senere åpner baser utenfor Norge, Sverige eller Danmark.^
Blandt annet for å unngå å måtte forholde seg til fagforeninger, dernest sitt arbeidgiveransvar og norsk lovgivning så har ledelsen av Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA valgt å opprette datterselskapet Norwegian Long Haul ASA som de nye langruteflyene skal registreres i. Vips, så har man vridd seg ut av kollektivavtalen med fagforeningen.
Ledelsen i Norwegian har med beundring sett på Ryanairs evne til å skape enorm profitt ved å operere i gråsonen av EU´s regelverk. Filosofien er at ansatte er et nødvendig onde og en uønsket økonomisk byrde og enhver mulighet til å få nødvendig mannskap så billig som mulig skal utnyttes. Det at det er de ansattes lojalitet, entusiasme og stå-på vilje som har bygget Norwegians suksess fra oppstarten er fullstendig uinteressant.
Så flyselskapet og pilotene som nå skal fly B787 på ruter i Europa som innkjøring som du skriver om kommer til gjøre dette i direkte konkurranse med det som faktisk er Norwegians egne piloter.
FAKTA:
Pilotene i Norwegian Long Haul ASA rekruteres av vikarbyrået Risworth Aviation og leies derfra inn på kortsiktige kontrakter til Norwegian Long Haul ASA under elendige vilkår. Ingen pensjon, ingen helseforsikring jfr. Norsk standard og ingen arbeidsgiver avgift for Norwegian å betale til den Norske stat. Pilotene blir på papiret basert i Bangkok. Mens i realiteten vil flyene produsere ruter som du vet f.eks. Oslo-New York og København-Fort Lauderdale. Det eneste som ligger i begrepet "Base" i Bangkok er at en Nordmann eller Danske som er pilot i denne operasjonen må selv betale for å pendle til Bangkok for å begynne sin arbeidsperiode der, og dekke sine egne utgifter til opphold ved eventuell nattstopp der. Samtidig har Norwegian elegant sneket seg unna alle kostnader og forpliktelser i henhold til Norsk arbeidsmiljølov og skatteregler da dette ifølge dem dreier seg om en produksjon i Thailand
HVORDAN:
Hvordan får dem da kvalifisert mannskap til slike vilkår kan du spørre om? Her skal jeg gi deg to eksempel, en kaptein og en styrmann:
1. Nederlandsk Kaptein, bor i Amsterdam.
Kaptein X er pensjonert fra KLM, han har hatt en lang og god karriære der, ikke minst en solid kollektivavtale som sikret han en solid pensjonsavtale med avgangsalder 56 år. Nå savner han flygingen, han er erfaren på langruteflygning med Boeingfly og passer perfekt til Norwegians nye 787 operasjon. Han er en frisk og oppegående 56 åring og kunne godt tenke seg å fly noen år til og synes det er spennende å bli sjekket ut på den nye Boeing 787. Han har full pensjon og alle sosiale rettigheter i Nederland så det at kontrakten gjennom Risworth har elendige vilkår sammenlignet med det Long Haul pilotene i KLM, Lufthansa og SAS har spiller ikke så stor rolle for han. Dessåuten reiser han jo som pensjonert KLM kaptein gratis mellom Amsterdam og Bangkok med KLM.
2. Norsk Styrmann, bor i Oslo.
Styrmann Y er 35 år og etter en dyr pilotutdanning og mange år med jobbsøking sitter han med mye gjeld og ingen annen utdanning som gir innpass i andre yrker med krav til fagkompetanse. Han har på toppen av sin dyre pilotutdanning betalt selv for utsjekk på Boeing 737 og såkalt linetraining 500 timer. Dvs. han har fløyet som styrmann på Boeing 737 i 500 timer hos Lionair i Indonesia uten lønn for å få den erfaringen som kanskje kan gi han en jobb han så lenge har drømt om. Dette gjorde han i desperasjon for å få et bein innenfor i bransjen og få brukt sin dyre utdanning så den ikke skulle være bortkastet. Lionair i Indonesia driver slikt salg av "Linetraining" i stor skala som en måte å få gratis styrmenn, som faktisk betaler for å fly for dem. Du kan google Lionair, så vil du se hvilken sikkerhetsstatistikk dem har.
Dette har kostet han 350 000,- tillagt den allerede store utdanningsgjelden. Etter dette fikk han en 6 måneders sommerkontrakt i det danske selskapet Primera som leier inn piloter på korte kontrakter for å dekke toppene i sommerproduksjonen.
Styrmann Y er nå arbeidsledig, han har stor gjeld og akkurat passert 1000 timer på Boeing 737, dermed passer han perfekt inn i Norwegians planer. Ved kjøp av B787 har nemmelig Norwegian fått med på kjøpet av Boeing trening og utsjekk for et visst antall piloter. Kravet for dette kurset er at piloten har 1000 timer fra før på en nyere Boeing maskin.
Styrmann Y synes Risworth kontrakten er elendig, men han ser at han ved å skaffe seg et billig krypinn i Bangkok og ved å ikke betale noe skatt noe sted kan ha en bra livstil i Thailand på den bruttosummen som blir utbetalt på kontrakten. I kontrakten står det forøvrig at lønnen utbetales brutto til en konto på Isle of Man og det er piloten som selv er ansvarlig for alle forpliktelser vedrørende skatt, trygd og forsikringer samt at under alle omstendigheter skal Norwegian Longhaul og Risworth Aviation holdes skadesløse i disse saker. Styrmann Y har ikke lyst å bli Skattesnyter men for å ha råd til å ta denne jobben, og samtidig beholde leiligheten i Oslo, må han gjøre det slik.
Slik er realiteten i Europeisk luftfart i dag Fonbak, men kanskje ikke dette skaper overskrifter som selger godt nok til at VG vil skrive om det.
Du har fått denne informasjonen i form av en anonym e-post da ansatte i luftfart i norge i dag, hos enkelte flyselskap, bare kan kysse enhver karriærestige farvel om man står frem offentlig. For å innhente offisielle uttalelser og kommentarer rundt de tingene jeg har tatt opp henviser jeg til:
Norsk Flygerforbund: Norsk Flygerforbund
Norwegian Pilot Union: [email protected]
Denne eposten er også postet i pilotforumet PPRuNe Forums - Professional Pilots Rumour Network og saken blir diskutert der.
Med vennlig hilsen
Jonas
SkyGod
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
1 Post
Fint brev det Jonas og det er bra detaljene kommer ut I dagslyset.
Hvis NAS jobber så hardt for å finne verdens billigste flygere og å kutte svingene og snylte på arbeidsgiveravgifter og slikt, kommer det ikke til å ta langt tid før det skjer noe.
Straks flygerne får 500 timer på type tar de en langt bedre betalt jobb I Emiratene, Kina eller Japan og Kjos må stadig ansette nye folk og brenne av $40K per snute for aa sjekke dem ut.
Etter 10 slike runder så blir han vel lei...
Har sett lignende her I USA og andre plasses ved billigselskaper: Folk sluttet dagen etter at de fikk gratis type rating på 747.
Lykke til NAS flygere, det er Dere som skulle hatt 787 jobbene på voksne vilkår: Det som skjer nå med slavekontrakter og utflagging er langt bak mål og man må spørre seg hvorfor Dere ikke satte ned foten tidligere og fikk sydd inn Scope I avtalen?
Hvis NAS jobber så hardt for å finne verdens billigste flygere og å kutte svingene og snylte på arbeidsgiveravgifter og slikt, kommer det ikke til å ta langt tid før det skjer noe.
Straks flygerne får 500 timer på type tar de en langt bedre betalt jobb I Emiratene, Kina eller Japan og Kjos må stadig ansette nye folk og brenne av $40K per snute for aa sjekke dem ut.
Etter 10 slike runder så blir han vel lei...
Har sett lignende her I USA og andre plasses ved billigselskaper: Folk sluttet dagen etter at de fikk gratis type rating på 747.
Lykke til NAS flygere, det er Dere som skulle hatt 787 jobbene på voksne vilkår: Det som skjer nå med slavekontrakter og utflagging er langt bak mål og man må spørre seg hvorfor Dere ikke satte ned foten tidligere og fikk sydd inn Scope I avtalen?
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Droppe ut av kontrakt
Nærliggende å tro det Towerdog, men selv om NLH får et visst antall typeratings av Boeing så må pilotene skrive under på en heftig 3 års bond. Denne har ikke styrmann Y råd til å betale seg ut av. Da er det verre med Kaptein X og vennene hans, han har råd til å gå på dagen. Og lowcost kjøret med minimumsrest over 19 tidsoner vil nok snart overbevise ham om at det ikke var så dumt å pensjonere seg likevel. Så her kan NLH nok gå på en smell ja.
Why keep the information only to Norwegian speaking people?Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Google Translate
Norwegian Individual Pilots Loading Planes
Came across this article: AP - Norwegian gets Dreamliner in June - Helping you travel
And since I am of the opinion that it is highly misleading to write that Norwegian's own pilots retrieves planes so I sent the following email to the reporter:
Dear Day Fonbak.
Just want to make you aware of a factual error in your article: Norwegian gets Dreamliner in June: AP - Norwegian gets Dreamliner in June - Helping you travel.
You write that Norwegian's own pilots to get the aircraft in the United States. Firstly, this is not the pilots who work in English, secondly, it is not Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA to operate the aircraft.
In the collective agreement in Norwegian pilots have with their employer is the introduction:
^ All operations are subject to the prevailing k agreement between Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA and the Norwegian Pilot Association. The pilots employed by Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA.
Collective agreement includes all pilots who are employed by Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA, based in Norway, Sweden or Denmark.
The parties will jointly evaluate and negotiate the extension of the scope of the area if the NAS later open bases outside Norway, Sweden or Denmark. ^
Among other things, to avoid having to deal with unions, then their employers' liability and Norwegian law as the management of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA decided to create subsidiary Norwegian Long Haul ASA as the new long route aircraft to be registered in. Voila, has turned out of the collective agreement with the union.
Management of Norwegian has the admiration viewed Ryanair's ability to generate huge profits by operating in the gray area of EU regulations. The philosophy is that employees are a necessary evil and an unwelcome financial burden and every opportunity to get the necessary manpower as cheap as possible, be used. The presence of the employee loyalty, enthusiasm and willingness to work that has built Norwegian's success from the start is completely uninteresting.
So the airline and pilots will now fly B787 on routes in Europe running as you write about will do so in direct competition with what is actually Norwegian's own pilots.
FACTS:
The pilots in Norwegian Long Haul ASA recruited by the agency Risworth Aviation and rented from there into short-term contracts to Norwegian Long Haul ASA in appalling conditions. No pension, no health insurance, cf. Norwegian standard and no employer contributions for Norwegian to pay to the Norwegian government. The pilots are on paper based in Bangkok. While in reality, the planes produce routes that you know for example. Oslo-New York and Copenhagen-Fort Lauderdale. The only thing that the term "Base" in Bangkok is a doe or Danish who is a pilot in this operation must pay to commute to Bangkok to begin their working period there and cover their own expenses to stay at any night peak there. Meanwhile, Norwegian elegant snuck away all costs and obligations under the Norwegian Working Environment and tax policy as this according to them is about a production in Thailand
HOW:
How to get them as qualified personnel for such conditions you may ask? Here I'll give you two examples, one captain and one first officer:
1 Dutch captain, lives in Amsterdam.
Captain X is retired from KLM, he has had a long and good career there, not to mention a solid collective agreement which secured him a solid pension plan retirement age of 56 years. Now he misses the flight, he experienced the long route flight of Boeingfly perfectly suited to the Norwegian's new 787 operation. He is a fresh and talented 56 year old and could well imagine to fly a few years and find it exciting to be checked out on the new Boeing 787 He has full board and all social rights in the Netherlands so that contract through Risworth have poor conditions compared with the Long Haul pilots of KLM, Lufthansa and SAS does not really matter to him. Dessåuten he travels the KLM captain who retired free between Amsterdam and Bangkok with KLM.
2 Norwegian mate, living in Oslo.
Officer Y is 35 years and after an expensive pilot training and many years of job hunting, he sits with a lot of debt and no other qualifications that give access to other professions with the requirements for professional competence. He's on top of their expensive pilot training even paid for checkout at the Boeing 737 and the so-called line training 500 hours. Thats. He has flown as co-pilot on the Boeing 737 for 500 hours in LionAir in Indonesia without pay to gain the experience that might give him a job he has long dreamed of. He did this in desperation to get a bone within the industry and have spent their precious education so it should not be wasted. LionAir in Indonesia engaged in such sales by "Line Training" on a large scale as a way to free officers, who actually pay to fly for them. You can google LionAir, you will see which safety record has them.
This has cost him 350 000, - plus the already huge education debt. After this he received a 6 month summer contract with the Danish company Primera that hires pilots on short-term contracts to cover peaks in summer production.
Officer Y is now unemployed, he has huge debts and just passed 1000 hours on the Boeing 737, thus he fits perfectly into Norwegian's plans. When purchasing B787 has nemmelig Norwegian gained with the acquisition of Boeing training and check-out for a certain number of pilots. The requirement for this course is that the pilot has 1000 hours from before on a newer Boeing machine.
Officer Y seems Risworth contract is lousy, but he finds that by obtaining a cheap shelters in Bangkok and by not paying any taxes anywhere can have a good lifestyle in Thailand on the gross amount that is paid on the contract. The contract states, however, that salary is paid gross to an account in the Isle of Man and it is the pilot who is responsible for all obligations relating to taxes, social security and insurance, and that under all circumstances Norwegian Longhaul and Risworth Aviation held harmless in these cases. Officer Y do not want to be tax evader but to afford to take this job, while retaining apartment in Oslo, he must do so.
Such is the reality of European aviation today Fonbak, but may not make the headlines that sell well enough that VG will write about it.
You have received this information in the form of an anonymous e-mail when employees of aviation in Norway today, with some airlines, just can kiss goodbye any karriærestige if you come forward publicly. To obtain official statements and comments about the things I have made I am referring to:
Norwegian Airline Pilots Association: Norwegian Pilots Association
Norwegian Pilot Union: [email protected]
This email is also posted in the pilot forum PPRuNe Forums - Professional Pilots Rumour Network and the matter is being discussed there.
Sincerely,
Jonas
Came across this article: AP - Norwegian gets Dreamliner in June - Helping you travel
And since I am of the opinion that it is highly misleading to write that Norwegian's own pilots retrieves planes so I sent the following email to the reporter:
Dear Day Fonbak.
Just want to make you aware of a factual error in your article: Norwegian gets Dreamliner in June: AP - Norwegian gets Dreamliner in June - Helping you travel.
You write that Norwegian's own pilots to get the aircraft in the United States. Firstly, this is not the pilots who work in English, secondly, it is not Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA to operate the aircraft.
In the collective agreement in Norwegian pilots have with their employer is the introduction:
^ All operations are subject to the prevailing k agreement between Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA and the Norwegian Pilot Association. The pilots employed by Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA.
Collective agreement includes all pilots who are employed by Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA, based in Norway, Sweden or Denmark.
The parties will jointly evaluate and negotiate the extension of the scope of the area if the NAS later open bases outside Norway, Sweden or Denmark. ^
Among other things, to avoid having to deal with unions, then their employers' liability and Norwegian law as the management of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA decided to create subsidiary Norwegian Long Haul ASA as the new long route aircraft to be registered in. Voila, has turned out of the collective agreement with the union.
Management of Norwegian has the admiration viewed Ryanair's ability to generate huge profits by operating in the gray area of EU regulations. The philosophy is that employees are a necessary evil and an unwelcome financial burden and every opportunity to get the necessary manpower as cheap as possible, be used. The presence of the employee loyalty, enthusiasm and willingness to work that has built Norwegian's success from the start is completely uninteresting.
So the airline and pilots will now fly B787 on routes in Europe running as you write about will do so in direct competition with what is actually Norwegian's own pilots.
FACTS:
The pilots in Norwegian Long Haul ASA recruited by the agency Risworth Aviation and rented from there into short-term contracts to Norwegian Long Haul ASA in appalling conditions. No pension, no health insurance, cf. Norwegian standard and no employer contributions for Norwegian to pay to the Norwegian government. The pilots are on paper based in Bangkok. While in reality, the planes produce routes that you know for example. Oslo-New York and Copenhagen-Fort Lauderdale. The only thing that the term "Base" in Bangkok is a doe or Danish who is a pilot in this operation must pay to commute to Bangkok to begin their working period there and cover their own expenses to stay at any night peak there. Meanwhile, Norwegian elegant snuck away all costs and obligations under the Norwegian Working Environment and tax policy as this according to them is about a production in Thailand
HOW:
How to get them as qualified personnel for such conditions you may ask? Here I'll give you two examples, one captain and one first officer:
1 Dutch captain, lives in Amsterdam.
Captain X is retired from KLM, he has had a long and good career there, not to mention a solid collective agreement which secured him a solid pension plan retirement age of 56 years. Now he misses the flight, he experienced the long route flight of Boeingfly perfectly suited to the Norwegian's new 787 operation. He is a fresh and talented 56 year old and could well imagine to fly a few years and find it exciting to be checked out on the new Boeing 787 He has full board and all social rights in the Netherlands so that contract through Risworth have poor conditions compared with the Long Haul pilots of KLM, Lufthansa and SAS does not really matter to him. Dessåuten he travels the KLM captain who retired free between Amsterdam and Bangkok with KLM.
2 Norwegian mate, living in Oslo.
Officer Y is 35 years and after an expensive pilot training and many years of job hunting, he sits with a lot of debt and no other qualifications that give access to other professions with the requirements for professional competence. He's on top of their expensive pilot training even paid for checkout at the Boeing 737 and the so-called line training 500 hours. Thats. He has flown as co-pilot on the Boeing 737 for 500 hours in LionAir in Indonesia without pay to gain the experience that might give him a job he has long dreamed of. He did this in desperation to get a bone within the industry and have spent their precious education so it should not be wasted. LionAir in Indonesia engaged in such sales by "Line Training" on a large scale as a way to free officers, who actually pay to fly for them. You can google LionAir, you will see which safety record has them.
This has cost him 350 000, - plus the already huge education debt. After this he received a 6 month summer contract with the Danish company Primera that hires pilots on short-term contracts to cover peaks in summer production.
Officer Y is now unemployed, he has huge debts and just passed 1000 hours on the Boeing 737, thus he fits perfectly into Norwegian's plans. When purchasing B787 has nemmelig Norwegian gained with the acquisition of Boeing training and check-out for a certain number of pilots. The requirement for this course is that the pilot has 1000 hours from before on a newer Boeing machine.
Officer Y seems Risworth contract is lousy, but he finds that by obtaining a cheap shelters in Bangkok and by not paying any taxes anywhere can have a good lifestyle in Thailand on the gross amount that is paid on the contract. The contract states, however, that salary is paid gross to an account in the Isle of Man and it is the pilot who is responsible for all obligations relating to taxes, social security and insurance, and that under all circumstances Norwegian Longhaul and Risworth Aviation held harmless in these cases. Officer Y do not want to be tax evader but to afford to take this job, while retaining apartment in Oslo, he must do so.
Such is the reality of European aviation today Fonbak, but may not make the headlines that sell well enough that VG will write about it.
You have received this information in the form of an anonymous e-mail when employees of aviation in Norway today, with some airlines, just can kiss goodbye any karriærestige if you come forward publicly. To obtain official statements and comments about the things I have made I am referring to:
Norwegian Airline Pilots Association: Norwegian Pilots Association
Norwegian Pilot Union: [email protected]
This email is also posted in the pilot forum PPRuNe Forums - Professional Pilots Rumour Network and the matter is being discussed there.
Sincerely,
Jonas
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and.....
Dropping out of contract
Nearby believe it Towerdog but although NLH get a certain number of Boeing typeratings so pilots must sign a hefty 3-year bond. This has not mate Y afford to pay out of. Then it worse with Captain X and his friends, he can afford to go on the day. And lowcost run with minimum residual over 19 time zones will probably soon convince him that it was not so stupid to retire anyway. So here you NLH probably blow it yes.
Nearby believe it Towerdog but although NLH get a certain number of Boeing typeratings so pilots must sign a hefty 3-year bond. This has not mate Y afford to pay out of. Then it worse with Captain X and his friends, he can afford to go on the day. And lowcost run with minimum residual over 19 time zones will probably soon convince him that it was not so stupid to retire anyway. So here you NLH probably blow it yes.
SkyGod
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
1 Post
Why keep the information only to Norwegian speaking people?
This is stupid and against the spirit of this Forum
This is stupid and against the spirit of this Forum
Forum languages are Svenska, Dansk, Norsk & English.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The (translated) posting is factually incorrect on so many levels Jonas / Shanwick.
1- pilots will not be required to commute to BKK at own expense.
2- health insurance is provided.
3- the conditions are not "appalling" admittedly fairly basic , but actually pretty comparable to similar jobs available in ME or Europe when you drill them down.
4- how is it in direct competition with European Norwegian routes ? I don't see B737 flying BKK - OSLO
There seems to be a lot of animosity towards this New Operation. It is a new operation and therefore the contract terms are as advertised. If we don't like them we don't accept them. I for one am in that decision making process right now and I do not fall into either of the categories mentioned in the email.
The fact is this operation requires experienced Long haul pilots, the market will dictate if the terms on offer will provide the required pilots. I suspect the package is just good enough to do that but time will tell.
Inaccurate and misleading statements are easy to make anonymously.
1- pilots will not be required to commute to BKK at own expense.
2- health insurance is provided.
3- the conditions are not "appalling" admittedly fairly basic , but actually pretty comparable to similar jobs available in ME or Europe when you drill them down.
4- how is it in direct competition with European Norwegian routes ? I don't see B737 flying BKK - OSLO
There seems to be a lot of animosity towards this New Operation. It is a new operation and therefore the contract terms are as advertised. If we don't like them we don't accept them. I for one am in that decision making process right now and I do not fall into either of the categories mentioned in the email.
The fact is this operation requires experienced Long haul pilots, the market will dictate if the terms on offer will provide the required pilots. I suspect the package is just good enough to do that but time will tell.
Inaccurate and misleading statements are easy to make anonymously.
Last edited by CLOUD999; 14th May 2013 at 08:14.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: earth
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3- the conditions are not "appalling" admittedly fairly basic , but actually pretty comparable to similar jobs available in ME or Europe when you drill them down.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The salary is not €8000 gross maybepilot, 20% difference and an example of more disinformation.
I do not intend to enter into tit for tat dialogue about this package compared to others.
That said is there actually a long haul operation in Europe recruiting DEC at present?
I think the only comparable jobs for non typed DEC long haul are in ME or further East. The only one I have looked at in ME looks slightly better on paper. However once I looked further at cost of living, company culture and lifestyle for me the Norwegian contract looks better financially and lifestyle wise.
There are a few benefits with this contract, others need to be factored in personally.
As I said in previous posts its up to individuals to look at and decide if it works for them. So far I am undecided pending answers to certain questions. All I can say is I am presently employed by a European long haul operation with some considerable seniority and this package is not "appalling " in comparison, just different.
I could be controversial and say that the legacy carrier I presently fly for would be thriving if pilots working for Low cost airlines such as Norwegian, Easy jet etc had not accepted the terms they work under. If that were the case I would not even be looking to work elsewhere. However I am realistic, times change, terms change - adapt to survive.
I do not intend to enter into tit for tat dialogue about this package compared to others.
That said is there actually a long haul operation in Europe recruiting DEC at present?
I think the only comparable jobs for non typed DEC long haul are in ME or further East. The only one I have looked at in ME looks slightly better on paper. However once I looked further at cost of living, company culture and lifestyle for me the Norwegian contract looks better financially and lifestyle wise.
There are a few benefits with this contract, others need to be factored in personally.
As I said in previous posts its up to individuals to look at and decide if it works for them. So far I am undecided pending answers to certain questions. All I can say is I am presently employed by a European long haul operation with some considerable seniority and this package is not "appalling " in comparison, just different.
I could be controversial and say that the legacy carrier I presently fly for would be thriving if pilots working for Low cost airlines such as Norwegian, Easy jet etc had not accepted the terms they work under. If that were the case I would not even be looking to work elsewhere. However I am realistic, times change, terms change - adapt to survive.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not even close to captain X maybepilot. I have almost 2 decades left before any chance to retire. Think you will probably find Captains A-Z looking at this job from Airlines A-Z. How many go for it time will tell.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A CPT makes €9000 (+ €1000 per diem) gross. He has to pay his own taxes where he lives. It is a commuting contract.
Let's say he lives in Sweden. Then he will cash about SEK 42,000. He will have 65,000 gross, and pay about 21,000 i social taxes on top of that. In all about 44,000 - or 51% - in total taxes.
But he is legal at least regarding his taxes...
Let's say he lives in Sweden. Then he will cash about SEK 42,000. He will have 65,000 gross, and pay about 21,000 i social taxes on top of that. In all about 44,000 - or 51% - in total taxes.
But he is legal at least regarding his taxes...
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks like the 'hidden taxation' of social tax is very high in Sweden boeing operator.
The only people that will ever make big money from Airlines are the shareholders Flathadder.
Personal viewpoint :
As a pilot if I can take home enough for a good lifestyle and get enough time off to enjoy it thats all I expect.
The only people that will ever make big money from Airlines are the shareholders Flathadder.
Personal viewpoint :
As a pilot if I can take home enough for a good lifestyle and get enough time off to enjoy it thats all I expect.