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Enighet mellom Norwegian og pilotene.

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Enighet mellom Norwegian og pilotene.

Old 8th May 2012, 22:19
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Enighet mellom Norwegian og pilotene.

Det er i dag oppnådd enighet i årets tariffoppgjør mellom pilotforeningen, Parat og Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA (Norwegian). Enigheten sikrer fortsatt trygge arbeidsforhold og Norwegian vil i fremtiden basere sin drift på at fast behov for piloter dekkes gjennom faste ansettelser.


Aksept for faste ansettelser

Etter lange og krevende forhandlinger har partene blitt enige i prinsippet om faste ansettelser.

– Jeg er glad for at vi sammen med Norwegian og Bjørn Kjos nå kan se fremover og bygge videre på prinsippet om faste ansettelser og ryddige arbeidsforhold i luftfarten. Vi har gitt selskapet den fleksibilitet de har behov for ved etablering av nye baser i utlandet. Til gjengjeld får vi faste ansettelser, også utenfor Norge, når nye baser er godt etablert og har vist at de har livets rett. I praksis betyr dette at Norwegian kan operere en periode på to år med innleid mannskap før de som tilhører denne basen blir fast ansatt i selskapet. Dette er en markant kursendring fra ledelsen i selskapet vi lever godt med, sier Halvor Vatnar, leder i Norwegian Pilotforening (NPF).


Lønn og ryddige arbeidsforhold

I tillegg til spørsmålet om faste ansettelser har forhandlingene mellom NPF, Parat og Norwegian hatt fokus på hvilke arbeidsvilkår som skal gjelde i det enkelte land der Norwegian oppretter nye flybaser.

– For Parat og NPF har det vært viktig å sikre oss mot sosial dumping. Dette i form av billig innleie av mannskap fra lavkostland som deretter benyttes i land med høyere kostnader. Vi har fått på plass en avtale som sikrer innleid og fast mannskap lønn og ryddige arbeidsforhold som er på nivå med de landene de skal operere i. Vi har tidligere vært tydelige på at vi ikke krever å eksportere norske lønnsforhold, men trygge, ryddige og anstendige vilkår for alle piloter, uansett hvor i Europa de er ansatt. Dette vil jeg i dag berømme Norwegian og Bjørn Kjos for å ha kommet oss i møte på, sier Hans Erik Skjæggerud, leder i Parat.


Parat takker Parat Luftfart og Norsk Flygerforbund for all støtte som er mottatt under konflikten.
Luftfart1 is offline  
Old 9th May 2012, 07:56
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I praksis kan Kjosern fortsette som han vil i 2 år til. Fast ansatte styrmen i Norge er fremdeles "stuck" som styrmen med mindre de signerer dumpingkontrakt i utlandet. Dette lukter midlertidig våpenhvile!
Om 2 år er det for sent å ta opp kampen!

Intensjonen er......
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Old 9th May 2012, 10:11
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Ja her lukter det sterkt av kompromisser hele veien. Fra full splid til plutselig enighet. Something´s fishy.
Som Diper sier: Kjos kan i praksis fortsette stort sett som før, helt til det er for sent å gjøre noe mer med problemstillingen.
Dette kan da NF umulig være fornøyd med?
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Old 9th May 2012, 11:06
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Luftfart1,
just Google Translated that statement too, to keep us Non Scandic Linguists in the picture.

Cheers

It is now agreed in this year's wage settlement between the pilot union, Parat and Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA (Norwegian). The agreement ensures continued safe working conditions and Norwegian will in future base its operations on the real need for pilots is covered by permanent employment.


Acceptance of permanent employment

After long and arduous negotiations, the parties have agreed in principle on permanent employment.

- I am glad that we, together with Norwegian and Bjørn Kjos can now look forward and build on the principle of permanent employment and orderly working in aviation. We have given the company the flexibility they need for the establishment of new bases abroad. In return, we get regular employment, even outside Norway, when new databases are well established and has shown that they are viable. In practice this means that Norwegian can operate for a period of two years of contracted crew before those belonging to this database is a permanent employee of the company. This is a marked change of course from the management of the company we are living well with, said Halvor Lake, head of Norwegian Pilot Association (NPF).


Salaries and orderly working

In addition to the issue of permanent employment, the negotiations between the NPF, Parat and Norwegian focused on the working conditions which will apply in each country where Norwegian create new air bases.

- For Parat and NPF have been important to ensure against social dumping. This form of cheap hiring of staff from low cost countries which are then used in countries with higher costs. We have put in place an agreement that provides temporary and permanent personnel salaries and orderly working on a par with the countries they operate in. We have already made it clear that we do not require to export Norwegian wages, but safe, orderly and decent conditions for all pilots, regardless of where in Europe they are employed. This, I now commend the Norwegian and Bjørn Kjos to have come to meet us, says Hans Erik Skjæggerud, chairman of Parat.


Parat Parat thank Aerospace and Norwegian Pilots' Association for all the support received during the conflict.



So, expecting to be notified of some "changes" to my contract from my "Agency" ? . . . . sounds like
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Old 9th May 2012, 11:20
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It doesn't concern you permanent guys I guess, but it is going to be some time before the "Spanish" Crew can comply.

The new European legislation has been passed requiring one to pay (& the company too) Social Charges at base.

Unless it has slipped my attention, the current Spanish system is not geared up for this.
Ex colleagues in Ryanair have in the past attempted to pay tax & social charges in Spain (not out of generosity, but because it was cheaper than their home country) their kind offer was rebuffed, as they were not employed on a "Spanish Contract"
Spain , like most EuroLand countries , is now desparate for cash, so maybe, they will find a way sooner than later, but, for the moment, on the contracts & terms we contractors have now, voluntary contributions (as in other countries) would be the only possibility, but Spanish colleagues assure me, even this doesn't exist.
Don't know the situation in HEL, but for sure ARPI is Estonian Rishworth New Zealand (well, Swedish for our contract) & PARC is Irish, so, don't know how Finland deals with that.

If permanent FO's have to resort to this to achieve command, it is difficult to see what the Unions have achieved for the permanent pilots (certainly our FO colleagues) in the short term.

As a Contractor, it looks on the face of it I have to say a Big Thank You, but I would like to reserve that until I find out exactly where I stand for the next 2 years, and importantly, which side of the cockpit I might hope to occupy thereafter
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Old 9th May 2012, 11:33
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Er denne avtalen noe som blir sendt til uravstemming hos NPFs medlemmer, eller er spikeren i kista fram til kollektivavtalen utløper en gang i framtida?
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Old 9th May 2012, 12:34
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NF er tydeligvis ikke helt fornøyd med utfallet av forhandlingene mellom NPF og Norwegian slik jeg leser det:

Norsk Flygerforbund
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Old 9th May 2012, 12:59
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ORHANDLINGENE IN NORWEGIAN
Norwegian Pilot Association (NPF) has signed an agreement with Norwegian Air Shuttle (NAS). The acute danger of conflict in Norwegian is over, and any sympathy actions by NPA page will not be relevant.
Norwegian Pilots Association (NPA) has kept close contact with the NPF through their negotiations. As we have previously communicated, we have chosen to "contract issues" not only as NPFs game, but a common struggle for our discipline and profession. NPA has decided to play an active supporting role for the NPF to create a political pressure and give our colleagues in the NPF best possible negotiating position.
NF and IFALPA policy
IFALPA policy is reproduced in IFALPA Industrial Manual, and coincides with the ECAS attitude and practice the pilot associations in Europe are fighting for their respective companies. This is also the NPA's attitude:
- The rights to all aircraft operations within a company to be exclusively related to the company's employees pilots listed on a common senioritetsliste, and regulated in an agreement with pilot union
- Any use of external pilots / aircraft to be agreed with the pilot union - The company must have the full operational and professional responsibility for the pilots - pilots will be directly employed by the airline - Use of contract mediation agencies to avoid
- Contract Pilots undermining staff pilot conditions, rights and working
NF has been concerned about the NPF through this negotiation fully would "solve" the problem of contract. We regret that the NPF has not been able to anchor it to NF basic principle that all employees, both temporary and permanent, shall be employed by the airline and not through the mediation agencies.
NF has recently worked hard to bring the issue before the politicians and regulators. This work will, even though the immediate danger of conflict is over, continue unabated. NF addressed now more relevant ministries with specific requirements that we believe are important to limit airlines' ability to use temporary workers with unacceptable conditions. In addition, we will now consider various measures to strengthen our political influence. NF has also taken a leading role in coordinating the Nordic cooperation on the issue, supported by the ECA.
Lysaker 05/09/12 For the Committee, Norwegian Pilots Association
Alexander Wasland Manager, NF
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Old 9th May 2012, 21:01
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Do I understand this correctly? The Big Guy got two more years of doing exactly what he pleases, and two more years of coming up with a strategy for defeating the union. And in return the union got a piece of paper?
Mr. K must be rotflhao.
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Old 9th May 2012, 22:32
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Hvordan denne aftale forstås?
Som i at det nu ligger fast, at efter 2 år bliver kontraktansatte nu fastansatte
eller
at beslutningen om, hvad der skal ske med kontraktansatte er blevet udskudt i 2 år til senere genforhandling?
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Old 10th May 2012, 01:26
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Uravstemming?!?!

Nope, dette er visst tatt som god fisk hos vår forening...

Tiden vil vise..
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Old 10th May 2012, 19:43
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"god fisk hos vår forening..."

Kan du uttdype hvilken god fisk som ligger i denne avtalen?

Utenforstående undrer seg hvorfor i all verden NPF har skrevet under på dette.

NPF har hatt støtte fra hele pilotmiljøet i Europa i denne saken. Alle har vært enig i at det som nå foregår i Norwegian og ellers i Europa er noe svineri.

Kjosern kan fortsette som han vill og flytte baser rundt i Europa.

Vær så snill og informer pilotmiljøet hva som er bra med denne avtalen.
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Old 11th May 2012, 06:40
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Det er mange som spiser rakfisk....og de tror det er godt.
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Old 11th May 2012, 10:04
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Dette var nedslående. Der tror jeg vi mistet store deler av vårt fremtidige forhandlingsgrunnlag som piloter. Jeg vil veldig gjerne tro at dette er kontraktsforpliktelser som binder NAS til en fornuftig håndtering av ansatte, men jeg er skeptisk. NAS har lenge signalisert at det ikke er i tråd med deres bedriftsfilosofi, så ansettelser kommer fortsatt til å unngås etter beste evne, og dette var muligheten vi hadde til å stoppe det.

Jeg vil derimot veldig gjerne se informasjon fra NPF som motbeviser meg.
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Old 11th May 2012, 17:11
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Sorry to continue in English, but has anyone amongst "normal line pilots" seen exactly what has been agreed ?
As a Contractor it could be very good, or very bad news.
We could become permanent, but, in what seat? & in what base ? or after 2 years we could be found "surplus to requirements", or our base closed, or . . . . . etc etc, but, as Contractors we have to accept a degree of uncertainty.

What I am curious to know, is what has been done to help the Senior FO's.

I think if the company wish to make the 787 project a separate AOC/Company, & / or wish future expansion to be conducted solely through the Recruitment of Contractors, what is there to complain about?, it doesn't "directly" affect your current/future status as a full time employee.

What I understood was one of the main disagreements, was the fact that Full Time Norwegian employees (Senior FO's) were expected to take a leave of absence & give up all their social benefits/pensions etc if they wished to become Captains. Therafter, I understood ,there was no guarantee they could become Full Time employed Capt's at the end of their "leave of absence" etc.
Even as a Contractor I could understand & share the dissapointment that they felt, having chosen Norwegian as a Career Airline, to be told
" sorry, you have to tear up your contract & exist for a few years as a Contractor" if you want to change seats.

So, was that problem satisfactorily resolved ? as that, as far as I , an "outsider" (so to speak) could see, was the crux of the problem.

I can see the positives if the company has agreed to base future expansion on full time employees, who, after a period of time spent as Contractors,are subsequently made permanent. Depending on the details, I still don't know if this will work for me, or indeed any of us (as discussed above) but I didn't think that was the major employment issue outstanding ? or did I miss something ?

Last edited by captplaystation; 11th May 2012 at 17:16.
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Old 11th May 2012, 19:10
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Join the Union

catplaystation: From what I have heard the contractors are welcome to join NPF (the Norwegian Pilot Union). They sent out information today.
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Old 11th May 2012, 19:50
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That is good to know.
You imagine, before making a decision, I would like to know what they achieved (and the implications) for me, and, what they achieved for (in my opinion the most needy group) the Permanent FO's.

My experience of Unions has been mixed, BALPA ? very poor, particularly in relation to British Midland & Ryanair, IALPA? small, but focused & determined.
I don't know enough about these Norwegian guys, and they don't do a hell of a lot of info in English to help me decide.
Eyes & ears open, I am awaiting to hear of strides forward. . . for me , & the full time guys.
I don't believe this must be mutally exclusive.
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Old 18th May 2012, 19:06
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Jaha, där vek Norwegians piloter ner sig igen.

Helt enig med Diper m.fl. Vad var det som var bra???? Vi med bra betingelser var beredda att stötta er så att frågan kommit upp på bordet på regeringsnivå, med ett Norge där inget flugit. Men nejdå, det räckte att lova att efter två år måste en viss bas anställa piloter. Så det innebär bara att varje bas har en livslängd på två år, sedan omlokalisering några månader, sen två år till. Menvafan...

Levereras de nya 738 med ett specialdesignat säte för alla piloter och fackliga representanter med gummirygg i Norwegian?
Uniformsmössorna behöver iallafall bara vara i minsta storleken till alla piloterna eftersom de aldrig sitter på huvudet utan bara står där med den i handen och tackar för ynnesten att få flyga.

Sorgligt.
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Old 20th May 2012, 16:19
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@2beers: Kan du utdype hvordan en streik hadde løst alle problemer i NAS?

Denne saken er en skikkelig can 'o worms, og det er uhyre komplisert og uoversiktelig når man blander inn forskjellige nasjonale lover og EU-lover. Forventningene var nok altfor høye i forkant av disse forhandlingene, og man trodde at man uten videre kunne sammenligne NAS med andre skandinaviske operatører. Not so, I'm afraid. Konsernstrukturen ligner mer på easyJet enn noe annet. Dette, kombinert med at CEO i NAS mer enn gjerne tar med seg NHO og kjører lange rettssaker for å trenere og sabotere. Da er det bedre å lage en liten, men god platform man kan jobbe ut i fra. Det viktigste var å sikre produksjonen til de som allerede er fast ansatt, samt å sikre et minimum av vilkår for kontraktspilotene. Det er dette forhandlingsutvalget i NPF har gjort. Syretesten på om selskapet etterlever sine inngåtte avtaler kommer til våren, da HEL-basen har vært operativ i 24 mnd. Da skal alle der borte ansettes fast. Deretter kommer nye forhandlinger, med tilhørende streikerett...
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Old 20th May 2012, 16:22
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Helt enig med 2beers her.
Dette var skuffende. Flere av de skandinaviske selskapene (med piloter på fast ansettelse og med de beste betingelser) sto klare til å sympatiaksjonere med pilotene i Norwegian. Nå godtar man altså to nye år med kontrakstpiloter, uten oppsigelsesvern og med til dels svært usikre arbeidsforhold. Hmmm...
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