SlowAndSilly

Hi,

Any brave, and apparently wealthy, pilots (FO/FC) on the mentioned contract, that would care to comment on what the "take-home" (or net loss) would be?

Also, what are your, if you have any, loan obligations (student loan, car loan house mortgage) and how you will manage financially?

Regards,

Crossunder

This is the Nordic forum. No sane nordic pilot would work under The T&Cs DY is offering in HEL. They barely managed to round up enough desperate souls for the first initial course. Try to find an underground ex-East Block forum and post the Q there...

sprite1

Salary paid in NOK, converted to EUR at exchange rate on pay-day. 3 incomes:- basic salary of around €44,000 pa. Sector pay of around €30 per block hour. Housing allowance of around €600 pm. Contract governed under Estonian law, taxes to be paid in Estonia. Sick for more than 2 days in the year, they stop your basic salary. Sick for more than 5 days, they can fire you. Yes, that's what is written in the contract.

Also, pay for medical, loss of licence, etc.

A real Union breaker, if you ask me. I'm sure DY mainline is nothing like the above. Also, you would have to ask, why do DY feel they have to put their Finnish based pilots on an Estonian contract, paid in NOK/EUR and all for just 12 months. Race to the bottom anyone??

SlowandSilly, I still haven't forgot about you. I'll write to you next week. Cheers.

PropsAreForBoats

This is the first real showdown for the DY pilot union. Will be very interesting to see how they play this one out.

Dovregubben

Nowegian Pilot Union has brought these conditions to the court -Arbeidsretten.

However, HEL is geographicly outside the borders of the collective agreement so nobody can prevent Norwegian to establish a new airline in Finland under new T and C's. So far they still operate with a norwegian AOC and norwegian registered aircraft.

Norwegian management threatened their pilot union in writing last week with a lawsuit for damages at 1 million NOK per day.

Norwegian pilots will not sell days off and the entire pilotgroup will probably be slow as syrup for weeks to come.

Management will not speak to their union at all about HEL and there is a major conflict blowing the Norwegian way.

Sad days.

toolip

Crossunder
Yeh right...nordic forum and still most replys on air baltic thread

6 Estonian Air pilots left...they didnt like crj900. And almost all Small Planet pilots.
Im not familiar with contract details but its close to that they had in EA and Small planet. Guessing 5000 eur after tax for a left seat. Main reason for EA pilots to leave was forced A/C change.
Small Planet closed estonian base and pilots left for a norwegian low cost lower cost base. Still better then beeing unemployed or moving to the middle of nowhere or next to nothing(sandpit).
Even DEC are offered for FO.

Totally agree....A real Union breaker

so ...wtf is going on in Norwegian

Goldenbawls

This was also mentioned in another thread, but the union really(!) needs to revisit "contract scope." Norwegian is not establishing a new airline in HEL with new terms. They are opening a new DY-base and "pisser på" their pilots.

It really can´t be that hard writing a contract which states along the lines of: "any flying controlled by DY or on DY-airplanes must be flown by pilots on the NPU/Parat seniority list." Is it?

Goldenbawls

Aaanndd.. how does this make anything better?

ENSA

If DY (norway) pilots dont have a scope clause, their time us over. They will be teaching their own replacements.

It is the same everywhere, and history always repeats itself. Pilots allow management to hire new pilots on lower payscales in order to keep their own benefits. WHat they realise too late, (right now for DY NOrway pilots), is that the new pilots will take over their production in time.

>Good luck.

Dovregubben

Bjørn Kjos has told his pilots this is the only way to protect the present pilot group.

Very few pilots believe him.

Rough waters ahead.

PropsAreForBoats

This is the defining moment for pilots in Norwegian and their union. If this battle is lost then DY will no longer be a comparatively secure employer with fair T&Cs for its existing pilots. I hope NPF has a strong backing in the DY pilot group, they will need it.

toolip

Quagmire85

I just cant belive these numbers

even we in EA have better salarys(and we are lowest payd pilots in region I believe)
you must be REALLY mad to leave steady job for lower salary and 1 year contract...

or SJS(shiny jet syndrom) really exists????

or ....

RTO

You can thank FR for what's going down in the airline industry right now. Pushing operations with borderline legality makes their cost so low, others have to follow or die. FR is poisoning our T&C even more than they already are.

oNearly

The contract...

EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT: PILOT
I. Date
This Employee Contract is made [date] between:
II. Parties
1. and 2.
• •
Arpi Aviation, Estonia (“the Employer”)
XX, XX, [address, birth date] (“the Employee”).

III. Preamble
The Employee will be rented out as staff to different airline companies on the basis of a contract between the Employer and such airline company (“the Present Lessee”).
Nothing in this Employment Contract shall be deemed to create any employment relationship between the Employee and the Present Lessee, and consequently the Employee’s only employer from any legal or taxation perspective, shall be the Employer.
IV. Terms and Conditions
During the term of this Agreement, the Employee shall render services at the request of the Employer to the Present Lessee upon the following terms and conditions:

1. General Conditions 1.1 The Employer shall, subject as hereinafter provided, employ the Employee in the capacity of
CPT. 1.2 The duration of the employment is 12 months, as from the time of accession, with a
possibility of extension.
1.3 The Employee shall undertake and perform all such line duties as the Employer requires, in accordance with the from time to time applicable flight time limitations operated by the Present Lessee. The Employee will observe and comply with all instructions and regulations from time-to- time given to him by the Present Lessee.
1.4 In roistering the Employee for duty the Employee shall be entitled to have 8 days off in any full calendar month be allocated in accordance with the Present Lessee’s Flight Time Limitation Scheme (such days off may be Saturdays, Sundays or public holidays). The work pattern will decided by the Present Lessee.
1.4 The Employee is required to clear with the Present Lessee’s Flight Operations Department and have duly authorized in advance individual request for any changes to the published/official roster.

2. Commencement 2.1 The date as may be agreed in writing between the parties.

3. Remuneration
3.1 The salary consists of a fixed and a variable part. The fixed annual salary is NOK 348.000, and the variable salary is NOK 290 per hour. The Employer shall pay the Employee a monthly salary equivalent with 1/12 of the fixed salary, plus hourly pay for actual worked hours each month. The Employee’s bank account details shall be furnished in writing by the Employee to the Employer.
3.2 The salary shall be paid in EURO, converted from NOK based on the official current conversion rate between NOK and EURO each pay day.
3.3 The Employee is exclusively responsible for the payment of taxes in Estonia or any other country in the world, pertaining to any remuneration paid to the Employee by the Employer under this employment contract.

4. Accommodation and Transportation
4.1 The Employee shall be provided by the Employer with the airline standard hotel accommodation or apartment at base of operation and single room hotel accommodation at layover stations other than base at which he is required to perform his duties.
4.2 Notwithstanding clause 4.1, the Employee may choose to provide his own accommodation. If the Employee so chooses, he shall be paid a subsistence/housing allowance of NOK 5.000 per month.
4.3 The Employee shall be provided with suitable means of ground transportation to and from airfields at base and layover stations other than base, pursuant to the Present Lessees instructions and regulations.
4.4 The Employee shall be provided with an airline ticket at commencement and termination of the contract to and from the place of origin of the personnel and base or layover station, pursuant to the Present Lessees instructions and regulations.

4. Licenses and Legal requirements
5.1 The Employee shall produce evidence of all licenses, including personal insurance, held by him to the Employer and take such steps (if any) as may be required to qualify himself under the Estonian laws to undertake all duties assigned to him.
5.2 The Employee will be responsible for maintaining the validity of his flying license, medical, passport and airline pass and to ensure the these documents are carried with him whilst on duty and that these documents be made readily available for inspection by the Employer or by any approved Inspector from the Civil Aviation Authority with whom the Present Lessee holds its Air Operators Certificate or the relevant authority in any other country in which the Employee is required to operate.
5.3 The Employee shall abide by all laws of Estonia and any other state in which he may be required to perform his duties.
5.4 The Employee shall not consume alcoholic beverages of any kind in the period beginning 18 (eighteen) hours before the time at which he is roistered for duty.
5.5 The Present Lessee will add the name of the Employee to the Present Lessee’s Overseas Medical & Repatriation Personal Accident Insurance Policy but only in respect of incidents which may occur whilst the Employee is undertaking duties (excluding roistered days off) on behalf of the Present Lessee.

6. 6.1
Termination and Service Period
A notice of 30 days is required for voluntary termination by both parties.
The Employee recognizes and acknowledges that his services to the Present Lessee are required throughout the entire term of the individual service period and the Employee may not terminate the Contract during the service period unless mutually agreed between the Employee and the Employer. The Employee acknowledges that should he be in breach of the Contract due to his failure to complete the service period it is recognized that the Present Lessee is likely to suffer substantial losses by virtue of the need to engage a replacement pilot to enable the Present Lessee to meet its contractual obligations and in relation to consequential losses if it is unable to do so. The Present Lessee’s losses may be directed at Employer. Accordingly it is agreed that the Employee will be liable to reimburse the Employer for all such costs.
6.2
6.2 Should the service agreement between the Employer and the Present Lessee relative to the provision of the Employee’s services to the Present Lessee be terminated and the Employer cannot offer the Employee another position with any other lessee, the Employer may terminate this Contract according to clause 6.1 above.
5.3 The Employer may terminate this Contract with immediate effect and at any time if the Employee, during the terms of this Contract
6.3.1commits any grave misconduct or misconduct or any conduct tending to bring himself or the Employer or the Present Lessee into disrepute or breach or non-observance of any of the conditions of this Contract,
or
6.3.2without just cause willfully neglects or fails or refuse to carry out any of his duties thereunder,
or 6.3.3is adjudged bankrupt or compounds with his creditors, or
6.3.4 is convicted of any criminal offence, or
6.3.5 fails to pass or maintain the standard Airline Pilots medical, or 6.3.6 fails to pass or maintain the ATPL license, or
6.3.7fails any initial or periodic simulator/aircraft training or proficiency check or line check carried out by or on behalf of the Present Lessee or fail to maintain the required standard.
6.4 If the Employee is terminated in accordance with clause 6.3, the Employee is entitled to so much of his salary as have accrued to the date of such termination without prejudice to any prior subsisting claims of either party.
6.5 The Employee shall, following the end of his services to the Present Lessee, return to the Present Lessee all manuals, items of uniform, identity card and any other items of property issued to the Employee by or on behalf of the Present Lessee. A final clearance certificate from the Present Lessee duly signed by the Employee evidencing that the forgoing requirement has been complied with, will be required by the Employer.
6.6 In the event of this Contract being terminated in accordance with 6.1 6.2 or 6.3 hereto the Employee hereby agrees that the Employer may retain all outstanding allowances and salary payments which are due to the Employee and offset such retained payments against any/all training costs incurred by the Employer by any Present Lessee.
6.6 The Employee agrees that he will not, during the terms of this Contract or for a six month period thereafter, offer himself in direct employment to any Present Lessee without the prior consent and written agreement of the Employer.

7. Incapacitation and Death
7.1 If, during the terms of this agreement, the Employee shall be incapacitated through accident, ill- health or otherwise prevented from efficiently performing his duties thereunder, then should any period of such incapacity extend for 3 consecutive days or more (being days the Employee would otherwise have been roistered for duty) or for a total of 5 such days in any period of two months, then
7.1.1the Employer shall not be liable to make payment of salary to the Employee in respect to the total duration of any such periods of incapacity and
7.1.2the Employer shall be entitled to terminate this Contract by notice in writing to the Employee.
7.2 In respect of any period of incapacity through accident of ill health extending for 3 consecutive days or more, the Employee shall, at his own expense, furnish to the Employer a certificate from a registered Medical Practitioner setting out the nature of such incapacity and the probable extent of the period of incapacity.
7.3 The Employee shall, at any time during the period of this Contract submit at the request of the Employer to a Medical Examination by any registered Medical Practitioner nominated by the Employer and shall, as part of such examination, submit to any x-ray or other diagnostic tests and procedures proposed.
7.4 It shall be the responsibility of the Employee to ensure that he has all necessary vaccinations/ inoculations required for any state in which he may be required to perform his duties and that all such vaccinations/inoculations are kept up to date. The Employee will also ensure that he is inoculated as a protection against influenza and any other such infectious diseases as the Employer may direct.
7.5 The Employer shall have any liability whatsoever in the event of death or injury to the Employee or in the event of loss/damage to the Employee’s property when such harm/loss occurs when the Employee is not undertaking roistered duties on behalf of the Present Lessee and the Employee shall ensure that he makes his own adequate insurance agreements to covers such risks. Liability in respect of any incident which occurs whilst the Employee is undertaking roistered duties on behalf of the Present Lessee will be strictly in accordance with Estonian law.

8. Taxes
8.1 The Employee undertakes and accepts responsibility to comply with all of his income tax to the Estonian authorities, national insurance, personal incident/accident insurance and all other personal tax obligations.

9. Law 9.1 This Contract shall be governed by Estonian law.

10. Contractual revision 10.1 This Contract may not be altered unless in writing by mutual agreement between the parties.

11. Effectuation
11.1 This Contract shall not become binding until it is executed by the Employer. This Contract supersedes all prior agreements/contracts, whether written or oral between the Employee and the Employer.

Goldenbawls

For CPT??

Gratulerer

Nick Figaretto

Denne er også bra:

Hurra for personvern og rettigheten til å bestemme over egen kropp.

Hank the F/C

Never did the contract circus my self, is this sheit standard stuff or is the old Fart showing his true colors by creating this sinister contract
Maybe some one here that can enlighten us unionized guys about the contract business and if this is what you would expect...

Dissident

Är detta sant?! Är det här kontraktet på riktigt eller är det ett skämt!? Det är ju fruktansvärt dåligt och så långt ifrån ett rimligt kontrakt man kan komma! Det här MÅSTE media få information om så att de kan ställa den smilande och MoL... Nej förlåt, Björn Kjos mot väggen! Dags för norwegians piloter att börja bli riktigt nervösa för sin arbetssituation: om Kjos kommer undan med det här så kan ni glömma era nuvarande villkor! Trist att norsken ska bete sig så illa, trodde de var good guys...:-(

Aerosmith

The Employee acknowledges that should he be in breach of the Contract due to his failure to complete the service period it is recognized that the Present Lessee is likely to suffer substantial losses by virtue of the need to engage a replacement pilot to enable the Present Lessee to meet its contractual obligations and in relation to consequential losses if it is unable to do so. The Present Lessee’s losses may be directed at Employer. Accordingly it is agreed that the Employee will be liable to reimburse the Employer for all such costs.

This in reality means a notice period of 12 months and should you dare to leave earlier, you will be charged with the training cost of a new employer

Looking foreward to seeing the T&C´s of the upcoming Longhaul adventure. Mongolian or perhaps Uzbekistan contracts?

Diper

Som tidligere nevnt, Ryanair har satt standarden for lowcost. Betingelsene i bransjen blir verre og verre. Denne gangen er det arbeidsbetingelsen i Norwegian, neste gang er det noen andre i et annet selskap.
Piloter står ikke sammen. Norwegian pilotforening meldte seg ut av Norsk Flygerforbund for en stund tilbake og skal nå få hjelp av Parat, som har null erfaring på piloters betingelser internationalt, eller?

The race for the bottom startet for lenge siden, dette er bare et trinn på veien!