Jack Pot

3: An advantage if you are fluent in one of the Scandinavian languages

We all know the reason why it's not a requirement any more.

4: Accept to be simchecked at own expence if holding a rating

Can you sink lower? Come on DY....!

No wonder why CEO's at different LCC airlines are laughing when they setup new conditions for pilots.

Nick Figaretto

Med andre ord får ikke SAS rekrutteringsproblemer med det første.

LN-KGL

Seems like you have swallowed too many bitter pills the last days Auagmire85. The news about Norwegian getting bigger than SAS in three years came in a check-in.dk article. It was no quote of what Mr. Kjos has ever said. We all know journalists aren't the best in math, and this time too they didn't pass. The May passenger numbers were released from both airlines today, and with that growth difference we now see equal numbers for the two have to wait 'till September 2019. Looking at the 12 months rolling numbers, Norwegian is now 62.4% of SAS and 52.7% of SAS Group passenger wise. In other words Norwegian picks up around 0.4 percentage points on SAS per month now (average the first five months this year).

And if compare today's single aisle fleets, there is significant difference in CO2 emission. I have used the environmental calculator on the SAS website to estimate the average CO2 per passenger between Copenhagen and Oslo (2,65 kg CO2 = 1 litre jet fuel). For SAS to fly one passenger between the two cities will in average lead to 73 kg CO2. The same number for Norwegian's average passenger will be 58 kg CO2 and that equals 20% lower fuel use by Norwegian compared with SAS. For this estimate I have used 12 months rolling load factor for both SAS and Norwegian. The damp leased Cimber CRJ2s are not included in this estimate (would have increased the difference even more). This estimate is indeed conservative since I have used the load factor which also included the SAS IC fleet. The single aisle load factor is in reality a few percentage points lower (71.6 % compared with 73.4 % in May). The distance between CPH and OSL is only 518 km, and that is more an less the break even distance for the winglets start to reduce the fuel consumption. The average distance of the flights for both airlines is around twice as long as CPH-OSL. Since Norwegian has a higher share of aircraft with winglets (43 of 56), we may add a few percentage points to the difference between the fleets. All in all we may be talking about a 25% lower fuel use per passenger at Norwegian compared with SAS. This was only one factor. We can also start to talk about regularity. The difference between the two is now significant - again advantage Norwegian. Even being the most punctual now seems to be a close race. Norwegian has had 1.2% more of their flight pushing on time compared with SAS the last three months at OSL. This must really hurt for SAS since punctuality has been used as one of their top topics in their marketing efforts.

Goldenbawls

LN-KGL,

nice number crunching, however I really don´t see any significance relating this to a thread concerning (lately) DY´s deteriorating T&C for its pilots.

To further emphasize my point:
DY is no SK. That´d be comparing apples and oranges. But DY is fast approaching Easy, Air Berlin and "whose name I will not use", FR. FR is waayy bigger than DY (about 5-6 times bigger?) and probably has a newer average age on their fleet. Don´t know, don´t care. With FR the mass exodus of pilots has started. Pilots leave as soon as they have a chance to go anywhere else. That is significant.

The PP in PPRuNe stands for Professional Pilot. I doubt most professionals care about what excact percentage of the fleet has gotten retrofitted winglets. But then again, professionals don´t pay to work either.

Don´t expect an answer too soon, they´re probably busy working their 60 hour duty week

RTO

1. You are considered on probation for the first 6 months there, DY got at least one thing right: they aim to make sure pilots can fly and function as a crew, where as sas makes sure you can knit and play number games.
2. What are you on about here? Hotels for stopovers is always taken care of.

So you honestly think that pilots that live and operate out of foreign bases should have the equivalent pay of 5 times more than their Norwegian counterparts?

To compare CPH-OSL is 1000kg more fuel on a MD compared to B738.

What most of you fail to understand is that FR sort of dictates how things are done in this business now. By sporting a low CASK obtained by semi legal means, the others are forced to follow or die. As long as politicians and airport management compete to show their incompetence, they will continue to expand and kill off the others.

Just because DY didn't hire just you is now reason to sit here and bitch about it, as their management does what's best for the company and shareholders, as opposed to a certain other airline that works as a placeholder for other competent airlines that knows what they are doing.

Goldenbawls

That statements is uncalled for. Throwing stones in glass house is not a good idea.

That was exactly the point I was making. There seems to be a need to confirm you get a hotel on stopovers in order to attract new applicants... Again, not quite BA, ey?

Sure, but where are the fuel savings in dragging 30 pax around DK and FI on B738s...

That was also a point in my previous post. DY is not a "new" SK. Their terms will probably never come even close to SK. DY management willfully chose to enter the ultra LCC-market in order to grow, and there will be direct competition against FR and the like. How do you suppose management intend to match FR CASK? Once the fleets are matched by the end of the year, overhead and crew cost dictates the rest. I don´t see a pay raise on the horizon anytime soon.

MrLegal

Hej alla,

Någon som har varit på intervju på NAS i år som kan berätta om hur det gick till?
Detaljer tack...

Har fått info om att bli kallad Aug/Sep, så hade känts bra att få veta lite vad man har att vänta sig...

Vad kan man förvänta sig för bas om man nu skulle få jobb? Samt vilket anställningsavtal hamnar man på och hur ser det ut?

Tack på förhand!

avi8

Om du har fått et intervju så vær glad! Det er en god del negativa ollon her på dette forumet som ville solgt sin mors nr.2 for det samme. Hadde vært interessant å se hvor de jobber og hvor de har sine CV levert.

Jeg tror dette forumet hadde mistet en god del av sine faste skribenter hvis de hadde fått jobb i NAS.

Det er stort sett gjengangere som skriver her inne. Hvis man søker jobb så leser man alt av forum som dette og jeg har gjort det selv.

Hvis man har jobb så kommenterer man bare når man blir fed up av å lese all feilinfoen som postes her.
Har selv vært i en jobbsøkende situasjon og forsøkt å holde meg oppdatert på jobbmarkedet. Mitt tips til alle: Ikke ta til dere informasjonen fra folk som ikke jobber i selskapet dere søker info om. De kan umulig ha innsyn i hvordan hverdagen ser ut.

Hvor kan du få jobb i dag? Hvilket selskap tilbyr bedre flypark, lønn, fritid og antall hjemmebaser? Ja ting kan bli bedre men hvilke alternativ finnes som er bedre?

Intervjuet er en hyggelig prat. Om du er rett mann beviser du på line de første 6 månedene. Du har kommet til intervju fordi du er en bra person som andre har anbefalt. Hvis du ikke er villig til å risikere å kaste bort 6 måneder så takk nei til intervjuet. Det er et tilbud hvis du er interessert. Ta sjansen eller ikke.

Slik er flybransjen nå. heng med eller velg et annet yrke.

Vær så god. Klipp og lim, sitèr og kommenter. Kanskje jeg gidder å svare. Nå har jeg sagt hva jeg mener:-)

RTO

As a matter of fact, last I looked the T&C for new hires are way better in DY than SAS. Higher pay and 5/4 where as SK has the dreaded variable roster that makes absolutely sure that you have no life. When you compare a 25yr SK capt to a 0-year DY FO you are bound to see differences, but that apples an oranges for ya. Another factor is that SK has not hired anyone the last 12ish years so no one works on this payscale.

This must (for some reason) be wishful thinking on your part. From the guys that fly DK and FI comes the feedback that their flights are full full and full.

And thank god for that, BA is one of the worst airlines to work for these days. Not exactly financially sound, backstabbing culture and pilots that do not talk to cabin crew cause of the recent industrial action. Met quite a few that ditched heavy seniority to get away.

Huge problems is a gross overstatement. Contrary to your perception of reality there are not a single airline in the world that have all their pilots going trough line training with VG grade on every single item while performing perfectly. A few candidates have washed out and that is simply how the system works. Whereas keeping inept people on active line flying cause they can knit good, Is an alternative method of doing it.

Capt. evals in DY are a total and very strict evaluation of the candidate, and it has to be this way, they have one of the most demanding route structures in this part of the world and they have to set high standards. If DY would follow the 1950's style of recruitment fronted by a certain airline one would most likely see even higher fail rates. What you have to remember that quite a few that actually fails this comes from this background.

This is simply not the case, the only people I can imagine that honesty believes this rubbish is disgruntled Nordic pilots that still think that their natural place in the world is at the very top of everyone in DY's seniority list. This naturally did not happen cause it would have been wrong, nothing to do with Norway comes first.

janpmunk

Hei!

Jeg fløy innenlands fra Oulu til Helsinki med DY for noen uker siden.. 32 pax..

RTO

Absolutely, the financial position is a prime contributor to the ability to finance growth. Better results equals better terms of financing.
The reject comment I do not understand, I take it that it is some attempt to be rude of some sorts. First the polish guys, they work mostly of of OSL now and enjoy Norwegian wages and Polish prices, a golden deal if you ask anyone. DY could have easily fired them all but they offered other bases instead. You really should ask the HEL pilots, cause they themselves claim to be happy with the current situation, however there is no shortage of people to be unhappy on their behalf. The Swedish cabin rejected employment in the new deal, cause the Swedish union wanted to maintain control over them. They have been offered proper terms for years now but still seem to resist, they can only blame themselves for being union puppets.

ENSA

You will need to be either a) completely dilusional or b) dumb as f%#k to believe you can maintain any superior contract when operating in the same cockpit, on the same routes and with the same logo on the tail as a guy doing the same job for half the pay. It has never worked in the past, and it will not work now.


The 'DY.no' package only has one way to go, and it's not up. The benchmark is the estonian contract, which will be the comparison any DY pilot on better terms will be faced with in any future negotiation. There is absolutely zero leverage left for any negotiating comitee when somebody else is already doing your job for half your wage.. with your concent for christ sake. Your resignation is exactly what they want from you, so rotting on the wine is your only play. Its not as if you're irreplaceable when the only criteria for hire is a coffe cup, a CPL and willingness to buy the job and jump the cue.

Make no mistake, any new commands will go to those willing to do it on reduced terms. Just go far enough down the list and someone will accept. If not, bring in the contract skippers.

MAHB

Regner med det er en del sk`ere som hopper tilbake i disse dager. Hva skjer da med ansettelser/kursing fremover? Siste jeg hørte fra mr BH var intervjuer i november for kurs sommeren 2012!

Da er vel neste spørsmål, hvordan i h*****e får man egentlig intervju der????
Har selvfølgelig søknad inne og anbefaling som alle andre!

Guttn

Har på følelsen av at de har mer enn nok med kontraktpilot-konflikten sin akkurat nå Om hvordan de skal crewe opp flyene sine og basene sine i framtida, og hvilke betingelser/kontrakter disse vil bli tilbudt.
Any takers? Vært stille en stund nå.

skeptical

FACT.
The contract is the worst in the business.
One will not find anywhere a contract where the net result is worse, even the gross result is less than most third world country airlines offers.

Many contract-pilots feel they have been mislead by Norwegian making promises they do not keep.
Regarding the poor contract which got even poorer because the pilots there does not fly as much as were mentioned in their contracts and the pay very much depend on flying.

Accommodation is on the pilots own expense and it is not cheap in Helsinki.
Contract pilots hoped for employment direct with the airline and were in many cases more or less promised so, only later it turned out the contract-pilots must wait until their initial contract is ending before they Norwegian will consider them for direct employment, while the airline hires other pilots directly.
The pilots already hired by NAS are not really aware of their contract colleagues conditions or does not care.

The union and the NAS management has made an agreement and put it for vote, an agreement that in the future will allow the company to hire contract pilots with the consent of the union as long as the union members ( a fixed number of pilots 640 ) are guaranteed the jobs in all of the NAS group the next 10 years - included in this new agreement is a new payscale for the new hires and the ones still in the lower ranks.

Shareholders must be reassured the future expansion will be at a much lower cost than the current production cost.
The big smiley boss himself stated in the internal news that the new lowcost bases is a necessity for the scandinavian NAS pilots to keep their good conditions.
A lot seems to ride on the new agreement - it has high profile managers and top union members endorsing and recommending it and the deadline for the vote recently got extended in order to get the "correct" result.
The contract pilot FC fixed pay 34000 NOK per month + 290 per blockhour Gross, FO fixed pay 23000 per month + 160 NOK per month Gross all inclusive, no xtras. Social taxes paid by the pilots.
The pilots are all from the scandinavia or baltic area with a vast majority being sweedes. Most of the pilots are very well versed in B737.!

Wanna drive a bus - one gets to wear a uniform, there is no medical, the union is strong, your rights are respected and the responsibility is somewhat more fairly rewarded.
The airline business is apparently still dominated by a situation in which otherwise capable people is easily forced to work under conditions the general public would not even trust were true if they knew about it.

A dear friend of mine tells me the FO sleeps in the crew room and in kitchens of other people because they cant afford their own flat. Most pilots left their jobs for this one based on the future prospects suggested by Norwegian who were represented and screened all candidates.
However if you were a young norwegian and got hired just a few years ago you are now a very happy trooper with a recent upgrade and a handsome pay and the solid Norwegian state securing a wide range of benefits and social rights. Rights that the EU/EEC regulation stipulates agency workers should also enjoy -but quess what - they dont !

Smirf

Hi Sceptical.

Thank you for an update on what's going on in NAS. I guess us Scandiholic's still out and around all would love to come back to Scandinavia to a company like NAS.

BUT......

With the new agreement, beeing implemented. Does that mean that a new joiner never would never have a chance to be hired directly with NAS?

Would T & C's be the same as for the 640 lucky ones beeing on that A list?

I can understand why they're doing it this way - but the way I understand what you are writing is that they will try and make an A and B team..... Sounds odd to me, but lowcost I guess...

Anyways thank you for the update - if you have time and answers for my questions it'll be greatly appreciated.

SKÅL!

PropsAreForBoats

If you were promised employment, you were lied to. Current and future contract pilots with DY will NEVER be offered permanent employment on the NPF collective agreement if the management has its way. This is irrefutable after seeing this latest agreement currently on vote. Also, BK is qouted on this.

Future expansion will be based on crappy contracts with miserable T&Cs, which in the end will be a major threat to the permanent employees which it is supposed to "protect".

I am amazed to see management at DY effectively destroying a good company in this way - history has shown that internal competition of this kind is a most effective poison in any airline.

BK has been tremendously successful with Norwegian until now, but here he's on the completely wrong track - which in the end may well result in the undoing of his great accomplishments.

DY-pilots - you better think long and hard before casting your vote.

bfisk

Hele poenget med fagforeningsarbeide er jo å stå sammen for yrket - å forbedre sine egne vilkår ved å forhindre at andre kan underby deg.

tractorpuller

Selv en scope clause er naivt i dagens verden. Istedet for å jobbe for en scope clause burde pilotene i DY satt foten ned her og nå. Hvem skal leies inn for å kunne dekke en så stor produksjoen som DY har om man skulle bestemme seg for å streike? Selskapet ville vært ferdig før den tid.

UP666

So whats the news here. As far as I know there hasn't been a conversion course for Norwegian(HEL excluded) since may 2011. Planes are coming in next year, pilots have to be "hired", but quoting the big bear "the last person have been hired in Norway". Chinese whispers are talking about spanish bases, arpi/parc contracts and no more scandi basing for new guys. So in order to replace the guys going for 787 or retirements, will the union allow arpi pilots in scandi bases in the future?