United chief attacks high aviation taxes levied in Britain
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United chief attacks high aviation taxes levied in Britain
United chief attacks high aviation taxes levied in Britain - Telegraph#
Jeff Smisek, the chief executive of United, also condemned the European Union for trying to force American carriers into its emissions trading scheme. Mr Smisek, who, following the merger of United with Continental heads an airline with 1,252 aircraft, warned that high aviation taxes in Britain would see business being driven to Europe.
"There will always be services to the UK," Mr Smisek said. But there will be fewer services and fewer jobs. If you chose a tax to destroy an industry, APD is doing a pretty good job."
Critics of the tax point out that the APD for a family of four travelling to Florida in the US has risen from £40 in 1994 to £260 today.
Describing APD as irrational, Mr Smisek also voiced fears of the growing tensions surrounding the EU's attempts to force all airlines – including those from outside Europe – to buy carbon permits.
Last month, the US Senate passed a bill which would effectively make it illegal for American carriers to co-operate with the ETS scheme
"There will always be services to the UK," Mr Smisek said. But there will be fewer services and fewer jobs. If you chose a tax to destroy an industry, APD is doing a pretty good job."
Critics of the tax point out that the APD for a family of four travelling to Florida in the US has risen from £40 in 1994 to £260 today.
Describing APD as irrational, Mr Smisek also voiced fears of the growing tensions surrounding the EU's attempts to force all airlines – including those from outside Europe – to buy carbon permits.
Last month, the US Senate passed a bill which would effectively make it illegal for American carriers to co-operate with the ETS scheme
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...high aviation taxes in Britain would see business being driven to Europe.
Green = States geographically in Europe (excepting overseas possessions; island states UK, Ireland, Iceland and Malta usually grouped with the European continent)
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Thx stuckgear
.
This Latin literary device fits just perfect for:
"...high aviation taxes in Britain would see business being driven to Europe."
.This Latin literary device fits just perfect for:
"...high aviation taxes in Britain would see business being driven to Europe."
Last edited by hetfield; 8th Oct 2012 at 10:03.
"...high aviation taxes in Britain would see business being driven to Europe."
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hetfield,
i am quite at odds with your stance. You seem to openly support any and all policy that is detrimental to the industry and the futures of those that work in it. Yet,You claim to have been a commercial pilot for a number years and have now retired, but are seeking atonement for your choices you made for your career gains.
As you have said, you've retired; So you're done.
So why support damage at a policy level for those who still have many years in this industry ?
Hypocrite or just plain selfish ?
i am quite at odds with your stance. You seem to openly support any and all policy that is detrimental to the industry and the futures of those that work in it. Yet,You claim to have been a commercial pilot for a number years and have now retired, but are seeking atonement for your choices you made for your career gains.
As you have said, you've retired; So you're done.
So why support damage at a policy level for those who still have many years in this industry ?
Hypocrite or just plain selfish ?
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Ah! so this would reference, as you pointed out, your support for the EU-ETS based on the United States involvement in Vietnam and Korea..
WTF ?
what about your rebuttal of the claims that high taxation on aviation in the UK is damaging the industry, which it is, by posting a map of Europe.
WTF ?
Perhaps in the 'old world' you did a tad too much LSD.
so what does:
have to do with the 'old world' ?
or the fact that you support policy actions that are damaging to the industry and the futures of the tens of thousands that work in it ?
WTF ?what about your rebuttal of the claims that high taxation on aviation in the UK is damaging the industry, which it is, by posting a map of Europe.
WTF ?Perhaps in the 'old world' you did a tad too much LSD.
so what does:
If you chose a tax to destroy an industry, APD is doing a pretty good job."
or the fact that you support policy actions that are damaging to the industry and the futures of the tens of thousands that work in it ?
Last edited by stuckgear; 8th Oct 2012 at 12:38.
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its personal when, people support punitive action against my industry and my future as well as the the tens of thousands that work within it.
oh so you are decrying Mr Smisek's assertion that punitive taxation in the UK is damaging for the UK based industry because he didn't say 'elsewhere' in Europe.?
that's weak, really weak.
but still, you present not justification for punitive taxation.
or perhaps like your vietnam and korea claim you going to justify it by citing the Boer War perhaps ?
oh so you are decrying Mr Smisek's assertion that punitive taxation in the UK is damaging for the UK based industry because he didn't say 'elsewhere' in Europe.?
that's weak, really weak.
but still, you present not justification for punitive taxation.
or perhaps like your vietnam and korea claim you going to justify it by citing the Boer War perhaps ?
More bang for your buck
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Why do you get that personal?
A CEO of a Mega Airline who doesn't know which states belong to europe is IMHO a no no.
Last edited by Groundloop; 8th Oct 2012 at 11:08.
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I'm simply sad about educational level of "top notch" managers and politicians in a powerfull country like the US.
There are plenty examples of poor knowledge or ignorance of geography and cultures outside the US. It scares me and history has prooven that this fact may not only harm the US by itself....
There are plenty examples of poor knowledge or ignorance of geography and cultures outside the US. It scares me and history has prooven that this fact may not only harm the US by itself....
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I think it is fairly clear that Jeff Smisek is talking about the APD which is a UK tax not a European wide thing.
Many senior airline execs in the UK are also calling for this tax to be dropped or reduced significantly, It will cause traffic to move to other European countries causing further harm to the industry in Britain. Whilst in the short term and more importantly to United and Jeff Smisek, it is harming passenger numbers, profit margins and early bookings from LHR/LGW to the USA.
EDIT: That is an extremely badly written and confused article. The APD and Emission Trading Scheme are 2 separate issues. The only link is that the British government call the APD a 'green tax' although I doubt any of the money goes to environmental programmes. Better to allow the airlines to make more profit and invest in modern fuel efficient fleets!
Many senior airline execs in the UK are also calling for this tax to be dropped or reduced significantly, It will cause traffic to move to other European countries causing further harm to the industry in Britain. Whilst in the short term and more importantly to United and Jeff Smisek, it is harming passenger numbers, profit margins and early bookings from LHR/LGW to the USA.
EDIT: That is an extremely badly written and confused article. The APD and Emission Trading Scheme are 2 separate issues. The only link is that the British government call the APD a 'green tax' although I doubt any of the money goes to environmental programmes. Better to allow the airlines to make more profit and invest in modern fuel efficient fleets!
Last edited by Mercenary Pilot; 8th Oct 2012 at 11:39.
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the British government call the APD a 'green tax' although I doubt any of the money goes to environmental programmes.
from 2009..
Chancellor Alistair Darling has admitted that Air Passenger Duty (APD) is a tax to help fight the banking crisis, according to reports.
Speaking in London last month, Darling told The Journal: "I am quite blunt about it, we need to raise money to pay for some things we have done.
"If unemployment goes up there is a cost obviously to the family, there is cost in increased benefits, Northern Rock has cost a lot of money."
A Treasury spokesman confirmed to Travel Weekly APD has always been a "revenue raising instrument".
Darling admits APD will help pay for banking crisis - www.travelweekly.co.uk
Speaking in London last month, Darling told The Journal: "I am quite blunt about it, we need to raise money to pay for some things we have done.
"If unemployment goes up there is a cost obviously to the family, there is cost in increased benefits, Northern Rock has cost a lot of money."
A Treasury spokesman confirmed to Travel Weekly APD has always been a "revenue raising instrument".
Darling admits APD will help pay for banking crisis - www.travelweekly.co.uk
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I'm simply sad about educational level of "top notch" managers and politicians in a powerfull country like the US.
There are plenty examples of poor knowledge or ignorance of geography and cultures outside the US. It scares me and history has prooven that this fact may not only harm the US by itself....
There are plenty examples of poor knowledge or ignorance of geography and cultures outside the US. It scares me and history has prooven that this fact may not only harm the US by itself....
touché
Last edited by stuckgear; 8th Oct 2012 at 12:06.
Well, first of all I guess it's well worth noticing that this entire debate rests on a newspaper article. A newspaper, gentlemen, and we should all bloody well know the accuracy with which these organisations work.
Furthermore, having listened to the interview at no time does Mr. Smisek say anything along the lines, or even remotely connected to, "driving business to Europe". That, in other words, is the interpretation the Telegraph attached to his sentence, and I quote roughly: "the UK has not seen as many flights, have seen less growth and less new jobs because of the APD". There is nothing to suggest UA have expanded in continental EU instead of the UK; for all we know they could have swung growth in the direction of South America.
What he is implying, is that if it wasn't for the APD he and his cohorts would have poured more capacity into the UK. It would be interesting to put that to the test, since I'm not so sure the UK is presently where growth opportunities lies. So he could, for all it matters, basically be talking ballacks, and all he want is not really to send more aeroplanes across the Atlantic, but to get rid of the APD without lowering ticket prices. Which is fair enough, the first failure of any corporation is failure to produce a profit, but I'm not sure I like the spin.
Furthermore, having listened to the interview at no time does Mr. Smisek say anything along the lines, or even remotely connected to, "driving business to Europe". That, in other words, is the interpretation the Telegraph attached to his sentence, and I quote roughly: "the UK has not seen as many flights, have seen less growth and less new jobs because of the APD". There is nothing to suggest UA have expanded in continental EU instead of the UK; for all we know they could have swung growth in the direction of South America.
What he is implying, is that if it wasn't for the APD he and his cohorts would have poured more capacity into the UK. It would be interesting to put that to the test, since I'm not so sure the UK is presently where growth opportunities lies. So he could, for all it matters, basically be talking ballacks, and all he want is not really to send more aeroplanes across the Atlantic, but to get rid of the APD without lowering ticket prices. Which is fair enough, the first failure of any corporation is failure to produce a profit, but I'm not sure I like the spin.
Last edited by SMT Member; 8th Oct 2012 at 13:14.
Well this is a wasted thread again as soon as the Hetfields and Stuks start feuding again 
On this side of the pond we have to endure politicians running for office using every chance they get to down the other guy instead of explaining their position on issues. Thankfully it will quiet down in early Nov.
On this side of the pond we have to endure politicians running for office using every chance they get to down the other guy instead of explaining their position on issues. Thankfully it will quiet down in early Nov.
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loma, it may interest you to see who made the OP..
And sorry but in the course of debate, someone gets to call B******t on b******t.
i've clearly stated my position, that i see no justification for punitive taxation on this industry and supported that position with facts..
rather than, give some B/S about justification for the EU-ETS being the United Stets involvement in Vietnam.. again WTF ?
unless we can have a coherent discussion about punitive actions taken against this industry then it will ferster in decline.
Coherent discussion requires that B/S mongers have their illogical and irrelevant arguments shot down and not allow the subject to be diverted into irrelevencies.
Now if anyone wants to put forward a sound argument for punitive policy against this industry, i'm sure we'd all appreciate the opportunity to discuss that.
Otherwise those who are against such damaging actions will rail against those who spout balebovinefeces and call it as such.
or would it better if everyone posted METARs ?
And sorry but in the course of debate, someone gets to call B******t on b******t.
i've clearly stated my position, that i see no justification for punitive taxation on this industry and supported that position with facts..
rather than, give some B/S about justification for the EU-ETS being the United Stets involvement in Vietnam.. again WTF ?
unless we can have a coherent discussion about punitive actions taken against this industry then it will ferster in decline.
Coherent discussion requires that B/S mongers have their illogical and irrelevant arguments shot down and not allow the subject to be diverted into irrelevencies.
Now if anyone wants to put forward a sound argument for punitive policy against this industry, i'm sure we'd all appreciate the opportunity to discuss that.
Otherwise those who are against such damaging actions will rail against those who spout balebovinefeces and call it as such.
or would it better if everyone posted METARs ?
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SMT,
thank you for the time and effort to actually asserting a position. Much appreciated.
i do take your point and valid it is. You mention that perhaps if it wasnt for APD then it is possible that more capacity would have been given to the T/A ops, would that not therefore be a good thing ? in terms of more capacity, lower prices, along without the increased cost to the ticket purchasing passenger via APD, that costs would come down, thus incentivising people to travel more, thus bringing some much needed stability to the market and the industry ?
thank you for the time and effort to actually asserting a position. Much appreciated.
i do take your point and valid it is. You mention that perhaps if it wasnt for APD then it is possible that more capacity would have been given to the T/A ops, would that not therefore be a good thing ? in terms of more capacity, lower prices, along without the increased cost to the ticket purchasing passenger via APD, that costs would come down, thus incentivising people to travel more, thus bringing some much needed stability to the market and the industry ?