Blog reports flight with medical emergency diverted to Toronto
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Blog reports flight with medical emergency diverted to Toronto
This from Avherald. I mean can they refuse landing to plane with a medical emergency going on? I know they are the US and can do whatever the hell they want, but this is like sinking to new lows
Incident: Aeroflot A332 over Atlantic on Oct 8th 2009, medical emergency refused by USA
An Aeroflot Airbus A330-200, registration VQ-BBF performing flight SU-334 (dep Oct 7th) from Havana (Cuba) to Moscow Sheremetyevo (Russia), was enroute overhead the Atlantic at FL350 about 320nm southeast of New York, when the crew talking very good English reported a passenger (German citizen) had become sick and requested to divert to New York's JFK Airport, but changed their diversion destination to Toronto,ON (Canada) just before reaching the top of descent into JFK about 120nm southeast of JFK. The airplane landed safely on Toronto's runway 24R about 2.5 hours after the first decision to divert and about 4.5 hours after departure. The passenger was taken to a local hospital.
Passengers reported, that the German became pale about 30 minutes into the flight initially raising suspicions of being sea sick, but then began to vomit blood about 2 hours into the flight. Two doctors on board provided first aid. The crew decided to divert to New York, but later announced, that their flight wasn't accepted into the United States and they'd need to divert to Toronto.
The airplane reached Moscow with a delay of 3.5 hours.
The German passenger is reported on the way to recovery.
FlightAware > Aeroflot - Russian International Airlines #334 > 08-Oct-2009 > MUHA-UUEE
An Aeroflot Airbus A330-200, registration VQ-BBF performing flight SU-334 (dep Oct 7th) from Havana (Cuba) to Moscow Sheremetyevo (Russia), was enroute overhead the Atlantic at FL350 about 320nm southeast of New York, when the crew talking very good English reported a passenger (German citizen) had become sick and requested to divert to New York's JFK Airport, but changed their diversion destination to Toronto,ON (Canada) just before reaching the top of descent into JFK about 120nm southeast of JFK. The airplane landed safely on Toronto's runway 24R about 2.5 hours after the first decision to divert and about 4.5 hours after departure. The passenger was taken to a local hospital.
Passengers reported, that the German became pale about 30 minutes into the flight initially raising suspicions of being sea sick, but then began to vomit blood about 2 hours into the flight. Two doctors on board provided first aid. The crew decided to divert to New York, but later announced, that their flight wasn't accepted into the United States and they'd need to divert to Toronto.
The airplane reached Moscow with a delay of 3.5 hours.
The German passenger is reported on the way to recovery.
FlightAware > Aeroflot - Russian International Airlines #334 > 08-Oct-2009 > MUHA-UUEE
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No flights into or out of Cuba are allowed to divert into the US even in the event of an emergency. This is due to the trade embargo that still exists. Obama will probably be looking into this soon too though.
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Commander discretion - may disregard laws in the persuance of preserving human life?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree? I'm only a humble PPL, but if I was denied landing and had a medical emergency on board... sorry, but that's it, there's nothing more important in my mind than getting that person to the treatment they require.
Then again, I've never been exposed to the commercial pressures of aviation, and I guess that's a dangerous game to play when it comes to the U.S...
Edited to say - In light of my first comment, I guess you'd also be evaluating the chances of being 'removed from the sky by force' (!) in making that decision, but then again, this does seem extremely wrong, from a moral perspective.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree? I'm only a humble PPL, but if I was denied landing and had a medical emergency on board... sorry, but that's it, there's nothing more important in my mind than getting that person to the treatment they require.
Then again, I've never been exposed to the commercial pressures of aviation, and I guess that's a dangerous game to play when it comes to the U.S...
Edited to say - In light of my first comment, I guess you'd also be evaluating the chances of being 'removed from the sky by force' (!) in making that decision, but then again, this does seem extremely wrong, from a moral perspective.
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Anti-USA propaganda
Try visiting Cuba before damning the USA. Prison state, damnable poverty, and the Marxist SOB's often choose to turn flights away from their airspace which have been filed and have Overflight Clearance.
And a medical emergency would be a sentence of death if the poor person was taken to a Cuban hospital. Forget the propaganda to which many fall prey to. The Cuban medical system is almost non-existent in practice.
Yep, I've lived in Cuba, worked there, and also lived and worked in the USA. In commercial aviation.Qualified.
And a medical emergency would be a sentence of death if the poor person was taken to a Cuban hospital. Forget the propaganda to which many fall prey to. The Cuban medical system is almost non-existent in practice.
Yep, I've lived in Cuba, worked there, and also lived and worked in the USA. In commercial aviation.Qualified.
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Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Other countries have this descretion also, and not just with Cuba.
For example, I personally know of two flights that were told, in no uncertain terms....'Do not land here again, even if you are on fire.'
USA?
Nope.
Saudi Arabia.
IE: Whomever has the big stick, calls the tune.
True yesterday, today....and tomorrow.
Yep, I've lived in Cuba, worked there, and also lived and worked in the USA. In commercial aviation.Qualified.
IE: Don't believe everything you read in the left leaning western press about Cuba.
Think....dial the clock back sixty years.
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EISNN
You cannot choose alternate in US if your origin or destination is Cuba. However you still can divert in case of emergency and this happened in the past. The only risk of divertion is US citizens on board, they will be fined for visiting Cuba. And this is too happended in the past, however it is more about Canadian operators.
You cannot choose alternate in US if your origin or destination is Cuba. However you still can divert in case of emergency and this happened in the past. The only risk of divertion is US citizens on board, they will be fined for visiting Cuba. And this is too happended in the past, however it is more about Canadian operators.
Commander discretion - may disregard laws in the persuance of preserving human life?
I would estimate that if a pilot of an embargoed airline declared a medical emergency then started an unauthorised descent into a very busy airport, then there would be a pair of F-16s of its wingtips and other one at least line astern for a missile lock inside 10 minutes if not significantly less than 5.
If the said pilot then proceeded towards the airport, ignoring the fighter's instructions to turn away we would have an automatic shootdown as a defence against the potentially hi-jacked aircraft to rearrange the Manhattan skyline once more.
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Donkey. Yeah, that's about right, I think...
Are you really so racially brainwashed that you imagine for one moment that the US would shoot down a civil airliner after it had declared a Mayday? Which planet do you inhabit?
God spare us from ignorant bigotry like this.
Are you really so racially brainwashed that you imagine for one moment that the US would shoot down a civil airliner after it had declared a Mayday? Which planet do you inhabit?
God spare us from ignorant bigotry like this.
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Are you really so racially brainwashed that you imagine for one moment that the US would shoot down a civil airliner after it had declared a Mayday? Which planet do you inhabit?
Edited to add:
Yup. I've just described the scenario to another inhabitant of Planet Earth and asked "what do you think would have happened if the aircraft had flown towards JFK anyway insisting it was going to land despite being told not to?", and the answer I got was "they'd be shot down of course, well duh".
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To be fair to Donkey, he was referring to a situation in which an aircraft strays off course and on the Captains discretion, ie. no clearance assumes a descent towards JFK. What makes you think the aircraft won't be intercepted?
Are you really so racially brainwashed that you imagine for one moment that the US would shoot down a civil airliner after it had declared a Mayday? Which planet do you inhabit?
God spare us from ignorant bigotry like this.
God spare us from ignorant bigotry like this.
If you wish to test the veracity of this prevailing state of mind in the US, I would suggest that you make enquiries about the *****-storm that happened not long after Barack Obama took office when the White House decided that new publicity shots of Air Force One were needed and arranged for a low level flypast of AF1 over New York. Having spoken to colleagues who are part of US reserve forces, this shoot down policy is an option.
I would also suggest that you refer to a thread under the military section on Pprune regarding the London Olympics in 2012 where you will find discussions relating precisely to shooting down hijacked airliners over London. The problem with this policy, aside from the loss of life in the air is the collateral damage on the ground that happens when the debris from such an action falls to earth.
Personally, I find the thought that this might occur anywhere to be thoroughly repugnant. However, this is the situation that we are in, all thanks to Osama's boys in Al-Q and the other assorted nutcases that are affiliated to them.
I am not responsible for either the US Government's or any other Government's policy in regard to these individuals, organisations and the actions they may take. However, there are some rather draconian options which these Governments have put on the table as options for themselves to take which make the daily nonsense we suffer at check-in look like a holiday camp.
Agaricus, I live in hope that one day the human race will come to the stage where each member of it can accept the other members of the human race for who they are and can live in peace with each other. However, on a daily basis I am continually disappointed by man's continuing ingenuity ion finding ways to be inhumane to their fellow man.
I hope that you can appreciate that my original post was neither in support of either the action of the US in denying access nor the potential action should the pilot have persisted in his approach, but rather an assessment of why persisting in approaching could be potentially very dangerous to all on board.
Should you still feel the need to flame my response, please do so by PM rather than on the board as there is enough feeding of the trolls otherwise.
Try visiting Cuba before damning the USA. Prison state, damnable poverty, and the Marxist SOB's often choose to turn flights away from their airspace which have been filed and have Overflight Clearance.
And a medical emergency would be a sentence of death if the poor person was taken to a Cuban hospital. Forget the propaganda to which many fall prey to. The Cuban medical system is almost non-existent in practice.
Yep, I've lived in Cuba, worked there, and also lived and worked in the USA. In commercial aviation.Qualified.
And a medical emergency would be a sentence of death if the poor person was taken to a Cuban hospital. Forget the propaganda to which many fall prey to. The Cuban medical system is almost non-existent in practice.
Yep, I've lived in Cuba, worked there, and also lived and worked in the USA. In commercial aviation.Qualified.
Their political system does not work, no bones about it, but therein lies no threat to the US.
The Cuban medical system is probably very limited in its resources except people, Cuba provides doctors and nurses to many SAM countries where they probably get more resources to work with.
Any pilot transiting the US ADIZ should be well aware of what needs to be done and what is expected in cases of medical of aircraft emergencies. I would also note that if the 320nm SE of JFK is correct, it was only 15 minutes of additional flying time to land in Bermuda.
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Roy,
what has the political and medical situation in Cuba got to do with the US denying an airliner an emergency landing due to a medical problem on board?
And they were lucky that the denied request wasn't "a sentence of death" to the passenger.
For clarification: I am talking about the situation in Cuba, not the American-Cuban political situation.
what has the political and medical situation in Cuba got to do with the US denying an airliner an emergency landing due to a medical problem on board?
And they were lucky that the denied request wasn't "a sentence of death" to the passenger.
For clarification: I am talking about the situation in Cuba, not the American-Cuban political situation.
Last edited by Brakes on; 11th Oct 2009 at 22:57. Reason: clarification added
Looks like folks still believe what they read or imagine to be true.
Some of the brain washing coments above belong in Jet Blast.
I prefer to let the media sort out the issues before we create them for them.
IMO there should be a lot more questions then opinions about what happened and why.
Some of the brain washing coments above belong in Jet Blast.
I prefer to let the media sort out the issues before we create them for them.
IMO there should be a lot more questions then opinions about what happened and why.
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Sounds like the sanity that Obama is finally bringing to US politics wouldn't go amiss in the civil aviation world either.
Medical emergency vs political posturing against a 3rd world state. FFS !
Medical emergency vs political posturing against a 3rd world state. FFS !