SBS is open to any brigade and has been for a number of years . Sorry !!;)

So the suicide bombers blew themselves up, and killed nobody doing it! Success

"We should nuke the place from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

Well it's probably the first sensible thing they have done to try to remove the fighter cover. Not that I am condoning it, just suprised it never happened sooner.

tonker

From the various media reports, they were advancing towards the RAF Regt guys
and wounded a few of them.


Nutloose,
Agree, I often wondered why they didn't try to attack the jets at Bastion.
Even feint attacks every so often would keep resources tied up.

Something you avoid mentioning but every war since its inception it's been the key... Not that a single attack will take out your assets, you learn and you simply disperse it, even on a camp that size it has to be possible, but you do wonder why it wasnt done before, that said I am simply looking at it as the press have reported it, which is often far from the truth.

Nutloose

I think the enemy have slightly less options now than before.

Suicide bombers and fighters storming the place like they did is one way.

Previously, lobbing Mortar and Arty shells was another but with
the counter battery radar and the sheer speed they can have rounds
going being returned accurately, it has to some extent probably removed
this from the equation. Plus of course getting it close in an area that is
probably patrolled non stop !

Easy Street
 

Like what you have to say about early days in Afghanistan. My take on this misadventure is that if we'd applied a fraction of the resources we threw at Iraq in 03 to Afghanistan, we my be looking at a more benign scenario. We are operating against a resurgent Taliban, whereas if we'd been a bit more serious about fostering and bolstering the Afghan central government and security forces in the early days, we may have been better placed to walk away from a reasonably stable situation.

Like many on here I was involved in the move into Iraq. I wasn't too bothered about the morality of it as we were resolving a situation that we'd left festering since 91. However, even at the time, before we became aware of dodgy dossiers, I just didn't see the hurry. It's interesting to ruminate on what might have been if we'd just sat on Saddam and let the whole thing play out. Maybe the Arab Spring would have emerged first in Baghdad. Certainly, the horrible sectarian, low-level civil war that blew-up in the aftermath of the invasion was always on the cards. It might have been better for all of us if we'd allowed them to get there on their own. The current emerging sectarian civil war in Syria bears all the hallmarks. There are many festering internal conflicts in these countries that we would do well to stay clear of.

As for Afghanistan, I hope we disengage from Afghanistan leaving some semblance of a stable government that can show some persistence. He may be a bit unstable but I hope that Karzai or his successor doesn't meet the same end as poor old Najibullah...

Am I missing something here...I don't know if has been commented upon.

But why the PR release of Harry's deployment, on day 1, and acknowledging his airbase? Sure it may have been broken later by the media, but that may have given him a couple of month's breathing space, like last time in 2008.

Public release of this by MOD has not been handled well.

BB

I thought the same thing, why on Day 1 ?

Sure, take along the TV crew and the Photographer
but put all the pictures under wraps for a short while
until everything is settled, then when the story breaks,
they can say, "Yes, so what, he's been there for a while".

Or when the story was released, have him well away
from the location at the time.
.

I would say the suicide vests they were wearing (as reported by ISAF) made it something of a certainty.

mel, you are probably correct as having penetrated so far in that capture becomes inevitable they may then be able to take a few more with them on their way up (or down).

I guess they were a bit like a 'forlorn hope' but with no follow on force.

It is hard to deter anyone that is bent upon dying for their cause....there is no down side in it for them as they care not to continue living.

That in my book makes them into the most dangerous kinds of folks extant.

I'm not sufficiently versed on the capabilities of the later generation SAMs and MANPADS or the Apache's counter measures - nor do I believe they should be discussed here. But the notion of the AH fraternity being invincible is dangerous IMHO. It smacks of a failure to understand risk and probability. These 'tail risk' events can and do happen. Just look at the financial industry and its failure to fully appreciate tail risk (or dismiss it as unlikely). These so called 1 in 100 year tail events are happening now every 4 or 5 years?!

I would imagine that sufficient 'enabling nations' would readily supply some latest generation kit and possibly trained personnel to ensure that AH was targeted with the expressed outcome of taking out HRH. The MoD have not handled the release of this information well - and I wonder if there was direction from the Palace to divert attention away from the Vegas incident?

As someone said before, there is no difference between firing a MANPAD and becoming an instant target than there is to being a suicide vest wearing bomber.

We fail to fully appreciate or understand 'Terry's' mindset, ideals and want for martyrdom to be able to come to terms with their tenacity and drive to rid the world of Zionist infidels. Afghanistan has always been the graveyard of external political will and ideals. When we leave Terry will be rubbing his hands - he just needs to bide his time until he can revert to ops normal. Sad tho it is.

Believing one's own propaganda is always dangerous....and doomed to a very costly reminder that the Opposition understand the concept of adapting their tactics to the changing threat and defense capabilities of their adversaries.

Even Bad Guys have Good Days sometimes.....which means Good Guys have Bad days too!

SaSless

And remember, a bad guy only has to be lucky once to have a good day,
a good guy has to be lucky all the time.

As you well know !

Harry's conversion, work up, pre-deployment training etc etc have all been so well documented as to make the press release almost preordained. I doubt the incident caused any change in the release.

Grim

Have you ever asked yourself why Iran doesn't supply the Taliban with decent SAMs?

They have lots of them, and could easily supply them along with all the other munitions they smuggle across?

Tourist - a fair point, esp if you believe the Israel/Iran strike story in the Torygraph today. They may have need of them to protect No1

I'm not professing to be a tactics or doctrinal expert here - just playing Devil's advocate and airing a different point of view. Now that I'm allowed to have one ;-)

Grim
I think they have more than enough to let a few go to others if they
really wanted to but as Tourist indicated, once they do that and they
are used by whoever, it becomes a whole different ball game for Iran
- from everyone including probably Russia and China who are a bit
of a stop gap at the UN re Iran.

News report says it was the USMC Harrier Squadron Commanding Officer and a Marine NCO killed during the attack that destroyed six Harriers.

Squadron Commander Died in Taliban Attack - WSJ.com

RIP

Duncs:ok:

RIP Otis, you were a good friend to the UK F-35 crowd and one of the finest Marines. You will be sadly missed.

Taking a completely dispassionate view of this incident, when the SAS carried out an identical raid on Pebble Island, it went down in British military history as an outstanding piece of soldiering. Like it or not, this is the Taleban equivalent and will undoubtedly go down in insurgent military history as perhaps their finest piece of soldiering for a generation or more.

This incident, unfortunately for us, serves as a stark reminder that despite being the 'guys in flip flops' they are still very capable fighters; we would do well not to underestimate them or their capabilties.

One small difference....the SAS guys did not wear suicide vests and had every ambition of having a Pint or two after the raid.

Lt. Col. Chris Raible, USMC
Sgt. Bradley Atwell, USMC

Semper Fi, and RIP. :{

*taps*

Who needs a pint when you have 70 virgins waiting for you ?

I think that's largely irrelevent when set against the skills required to infiltrate a heavily defended installation and successfully render an entire FJ sqn non-operational. There have been many operations conducted by 'traditional' military forces over the years that in theory were one way trips - just ask any of the Cold War era pilots with targets in Russia. The limited prospects for return wouldn't have stopped us executing those missions.

As for 70 virgins - really? They must be onto 'sloppy seconds' by now?

Well I guess whatever floats yer boat! If it is Virgins they want....


http://www.barelyhangingon.com/wp-co...thingsuits.jpg

flip flops really?
 

A determined foe prepared to fight to the death and take as many as they can with them.

Rather than 70 virgins wouldn't you rather have some slutty chicks who knew what they were doing?

This attack was straight out of the David Stirling textbook, and a very expensive (blood & treasure) object lesson in underestimating your enemy.

Melchett01 is quite right; this attack stands up well alongside the Pebble Island job, with the added dimension of a suicide aspect.

I long for the day when the last NATO troops depart this ungovernable, medieval cess-pit, which will then gracefully subside back to its' normal modus operandi. Declare victory & go home.

HB

Isn't that the truth.

Nobody ever said the virgins are female!

Or in fairness, human.:eek:

Seems that whole NATO Afghan strategy is now is disarray anyway, with the announcement of the end of joint patrols?! Talk about a Taliban victory. We should just pack up and leave before any more lives are wasted unnecessarily.

I can never understand the ignorance and stupidity of our "leaders"...

It has been demonstrated several times throughout history that the longer someone stays in Afghanistan the more likely they are to leave unceremoniously.

Good work Rocks... Per Ardua!!!

Grim, indeed an expeditious victory parade at home is called for. The snag would be getting out with your a*** intact.

Taliban uses Google Earth
 

http://cryptome.org/2012-info/camp-b...mp-bastion.htm

Nicely followed with a whole series of photos from inside the wire and indeed showing the camp layout, accommodation, flight lines and perimeter. Irony?? :hmm:

We are making great progress towards the publically announced departure date aren't we?

The stated goal was to handover the security of the country to the Central Government....now we cannot do joint patrols due to the risk of Green on Blue attacks.

We just had a very successful attack on our Bastion base.

The protests and attacks on our Embassies are wide spread and frequent.

What am I missing here....the President goes golfing, misses half of his Daily Intelligence Briefings....just what the hell is happening to our grand strategy?

It seems to be in shambles or is it just me?