And only later it was noticed that the firemen were on more money than most of the service personnel who were drafted in over Christmas to replace them....

No suprises there - shaft the forces and then kick em in the balls.

Gents - the film starship troopers is loosely based on the book.
The book has a main theme that only those who have served to the "state" or "society" or "body politic" get to vote......

I say we have a coup d'etat, re-instate a titular monarchy under liz to ensure checks and balances - and then make it that all politicians and everyone who votes has to have served.......

not just mil, but nhs, teaching, and all society serving careers.
No uni, mp's assistant, pr, MP etc etc

You have to EARN the right to vote.

When in power you can be booted out and sent to prison for corruption.
Integrity is the first criteria

ShyTorque,

We knew it at the time.

There was a group of them in the main shopping street where we were sent. They had the temerity to shake their collection bucket at us and begged donations for the poorly paid, striking firemen.
Have you ever seen half a dozen firemen surrounded by eight or nine really pissed off airmen telling them which way was up? It was fun! Nevertheless, they got the message.

On the other hand, the townspeople were wonderful and couldn't do enough for us. Free cinema, free swimming baths and public baths. Don't think we ever bought a drink on a night out.

I digress from the thread, going now.

Doc C

Piece on Newsnight now...about Olympic security.

Or lack off..

Gum shield in, safety specs on...

Have this security team absolutely porked it? Yes.
Is this a government organised shambles? Yes.
Is the contract ridiculously lucrative? Yes.
Should it have been awarded as is? No absolutely not.

New voice this net.

Should armed forces personel be paid extra for aiding the civil power? No, absolutely not. It's fundemental military task.

What's the rationale here, that we're prepared to go to sea for months on end in a missile boat, or bayonet charge Terry in Helmand, or fly through cu-nim so dense you can't see the wing....but we're demanding extra to help out in peacetime?

Errr, no. Perks of the trade. Galling perhaps and the girls and boys shouldn't be out of pocket but be it firemen strikes or plain old crap management of a security contract - we're here to serve, and if that means helping out with civil order then that's all in our TORs.

I don't think extra money or living in a tent are the issues, the infantry in Helmund would be happy to get their heads down there. I have no issue either with the military stepping in when needs must, such as responding to strikes or terrorist action. The issue I have is that this is representative of government not working yet again (I heard the phrase 'confusing ambition with ability' yesterday). All the evidence points to the award and monitoring of this contract being bodged and that is inexcusable.

G4S is a profit making company, of course it has one eye on costs. The government though, has a responsibility to the public and to its servants and this is the latest example of the military being called in to paper over cracks created by g'ment incompetence and negligence. I cringe when I hear politicians making capital from their own shortcomings by alligning themselves to 'our military'. Heads up for cringeworthy grip and grins of unhealthy looking elected clowns pumping military flesh. :yuk:

orca,

I have to take issue with your Sir. Your comment: Should armed forces personel be paid extra for aiding the civil power? No, absolutely not. It's fundemental military task is frankly nonesence.

This is NOT a fundamental Military task at all. If it was or ever had been, then the military would have been involved from day one on this matter, and it wasn't. This was a decision taken by those in power NOT to use the military for such duties and to thus award the contract to a civilian company who have now failed the country miserably.

As to the question of financial reward for being 'called up' during these circumstances, you are of course entitled to your opinion however, there will be many servicemen and women who will have had holidays, leave and other plans cancelled because of this governments incompetance and negligence IMHO. Those who have just returned from the sand pit, expecting some quality time with family etc will now suddenly find themselves dumped in the centre of London, and all their plans screwed up. Firemen going on strike is one thing, bailing out a civilian company is an entirely different siuation I'm afraid (not that I agree with the firemen either!)

So, I fail to see why those who are being shafted in order to prop-up the games, should not get some form of financial reward. Why not? Is not the issue of free tickets a reward?

But what about those who don't want a free ticket for the games? What about those, whose wives are so pi$$ed off at all this, not getting a few hundred quid to take them away for a weekend or something to help them get over all the crap of this? Whatever happened to the service family we used to have? I am not too proud to say that in the main, my wife went through far more sh1t than I ever did by being in the military. It was her who was left behind at no notice to explain things to the kids. It was her left behind to cope with it all.

I really do think that we should be doing something here to say to people, 'listen, we are bloody sorry for screwing things up, but here is some money, get yourselves away for a break', or whatever.

Instead, I have little doubt that those who have had to cancel their holidays and other plans will now have all sorts of hardship and grief trying to recover their costs back, knowing the beaurocracy of it all.

And finally it was interesting watching the former CDS telling us all how the boys and girls will just get on with it last night on Newsnight. Well that may well be true Sir, but it is somewhat spineless of you to simply brush it off in the way you did. Typical of VSOs these days I'm afraid.

Good luck to all of you who's lives have been affected by this fiasco. You have my sympathy, and above all my respect. I have no doubt you will all just get on and do it, and do it well. That still doesn't make it bloody right though!!

Winco

Orca wrote: Or, to be brief, but less eloquent...... if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.

When things are going well for service people they actually go very well. It should be no surprise therefore that when the !!!! arrives, it is particularly bad. I'm not saying that it's right, but that's just the way it is.

Winco,

I did wonder if the fact he was in a tux, the lateness of the hour and his relaxed attitude had something to do with how his message came out.

The police drafted in are complaining they ONLY get £60 per day extra and that the bars in the holiday camps they are staying at wont stay open late!!!!

Thats because the police have a Federation. Talking of Dannatt on Newsnight last night seemingly brushing over the issue, he was the first CGS to attempt to seriously counter the idea of a military Federation. I have never been 'for' the idea, but that has always been based on the implicit understanding that the faith you place in those who look after your interests, is well founded. Dannatt of course, was Cameron's unofficial military adviser in the run up to the election.

"The police drafted in are complaining they ONLY get £60 per day extra and that the bars in the holiday camps they are staying at wont stay open late!!!!"

Did you read that in that Daily mail? :ugh:

The Federation are useless and the Police are Cameron's no1 target at the moment. G4S are in line to take over much of frontline Policing as Cameron's aim is to halve Police numbers. My pension has been nicked and my contribution rate is going up to 14% regardless. We have all been banned from having leave as well.

If you can come up with the location of these holiday camps, please let me know where they are.

... nah! nothing as good as that!

They will offload the hundreds of thousands of unsold footie tickets, and probably spin it to say kick-ball is the game of choice of the PBI (cynical? Moi?)

Think of the joys: on August 1st you could watch two matches at the same stadium (Ricoh in Coventry)....

....... Senegal vs UAE ...... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

AND

........ Japan vs Honduras ..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

somehow can't imagine either fixture filling the 32 500 capacity stadium....

Depressing to see that nothing changes.
I was in Thumrait when the Exercise I was on changed into the Afghan conflict. The only thing I noticed was that my tent became more crowded and my £10 ish a day LOA was taken away. Apparently LOA does not apply to Operations.
It would be nice, just for once, to see the boys and girls treated at least as well as the Police Officers of equivalent rank. After all, they are doing a policing duty.
There are thousands of Civil Service and other "Fat Cats" ripping off the Olympic budget. A few million extra is neither here nor there.
Let the security Company foot the bill.

BBC researchers well up to speed! A rear crew member of one of the helicopters was interviewed and identified as "Lieutenant Corporal X - RAF Regiment" I have been away from the RAF for years but this is a new one on me.

He was prob lance corporal x RAF Regt and they are being deployed in the back of puma's so maybe not as inacurate as you think.

Along with the reporter referring to "Typhoons and Puma helicopters" as (RN) AEW Sea Kings hovered in the background - at that stage not a Puma in sight

Jayant.
Lance Corporal isn't a rank in the RAF Regiment.

The Lieutenant Corporal even had a "Follow Me" sign ready to hook on to the side of his chopper! Perhaps Airlines should stick "Bugger Off" signs on their Boeings :ugh: