Civilianise the Red Arrows!!

Then nobody will care if it is a BAe Roadshow with 'chartered' air support.

Call me an old Badger, but my God, if you have to verbally explain a change to a visual device, then it probably isn't a very good or effective change to that device - classic corporate "branding" to give some stinking consultant access to quarter of a million quid of taxpayers money again.

As for the "whinging" accusation, some of you need to brush up on the merits of banter over the dangers of carping - most of this is banter. And why would such an innnocuous change inspire this level of response if there wasn't some underlying and fundamental dissatisfaction with the very fabric of service life today? This is not whinging, it's symptomatic of a far deeper problem with service morale that will be ignored at Des Browne's peril. Another straw for the camel's back anyone?

In the airline world the fleet always gets a new paint scheme just before the owners go out of business. :eek:

Although I do not like the new paint scheme I do think that the reds are a very hard working good bunch. However, I'm just wondering if they will be utilising some of the on-base accommodation when they are on tour or will they be down town in a plush hotel. After all we are always told that we have certain restrictions for a good reason. Be nice to think it applies to all.

Like this one:
http://perso.orange.fr/provenceairspot/737maersk.jpg
http://perso.orange.fr/provenceairspot/IMG_6417.jpg (old one)
Don't worry too much about some Americans lack of education. Give them back with: "Oh I love those Navy "Thunderbirds". They are the best!" ;)

As I said in another thread, the RAF is doing no more than reflecting our society. The new paint job and Red 1's statement is part of the all important 'Corporate Spin'.
On this latest tour will they be accompanied by a Trade Delegation as was the custom with the Royal Yacht?

???? Don't you mean the RAF?

Yes, note edit!

Thinking about it, I rather like R.A.F instead of RAF.

The time might be right to strip away the spin and the hype and instead, go back to a time when we did things because they were the correct things to do. And not simply because it was considerd that perception needed to be pandered to with superficial corporate modernity. Hopefully, it would fire a shot across the bows of the lentil munching latte sippers at the War Ministry who seem to be running the place.

Seems R.A.F. is old hat now. When it was questioned I checked and sure enough nobody, not even the RAF, use full stops but I'm sure they did once, in my day, many years ago.

Ah, but taking out the full stops allows you to make it an acronym, then you can really abuse it!:ugh:

From the article on the RAF website about the new paint job:

How apt for the Red Peckers. More pulling ...... and tugging ...... crack on chaps!

RAF or R.A.F.
 

Sorry chaps, you all need to keep up a bit here. Surely now it's officially RAF.

Oops, just found my tongue back in my cheek again then!

Barnstormer1968:ok:

It still looks like Dave Starsky's Gran Torino.

That was in your time old fella. You need to let go as you are no longer part of the Modern Royal Air Force, or indeed any Air Force. The new generation are in charge now and they don't have time for your out dated 1950's ideas of what makes a great Air Force. Move on, sure go for a pint at the RAFA club and tell people how good it was in your day, but just move on. Things have improved now old timer. Relax and sit back and enjoy the twilight years of your life.:ok:

If things have improved why is there so much whingeing and cynicism (see 'Is anybody happy') over a paint job?
Anyway I was brought up never to say 'raff'.

Indeed. :)

Before you start insulting me again, can you remind me. Have I ever..

a) Insulted you by referring to you in a dismissive manner,

or

b) Were you ever shouted at by a Gunner?

Thanks. :ok:

At a risk of severe thread drift, the one big thing that has changed over the years (& I too do not say RAFF) is appreciation

....and regardless of what generation you come from, this is missing, and it is very important.

Minis wailing at 4am and 30mins to get into work, if you shaved on the way you got a bollicking, if you did a runner for the autobahn you got arrested. The German barns had rats and you froze, AOCs was a right royal pain in the arse, but above all else, you believed in what you were doing, and you got appreciation.

Now back to the thread. New kit, new helicopters, quality of life, teamwork and morale are all missing and when money is spent in a pointless exercise such as this, one cannot help but think that somebody, somewhere has got their priorities all wrong. Guys chewing dust by day and reliving nightmares at night have every right not to feel appreciated when in need of basic essentials whilst viewing threads such as this.

samuraimatt, patronising and uncalled for. There was a time when military ethos existed, and you did not need to keep the PEd staff in a job to prove it. The state of the nation is an effing mess, and there is no solution whilst MPs pull the strings, and those with the guts to speak out get sacked.

Rant over; I'll get my coat

Maybe after a recent sale of Typhoons to the middle east it should be 'Riyal' Air Force?

Samuriamatt
God willing you too will, one day, be a 'has been'. Look forward to it, it's a good position to be in.:):):) Far better than the alternative.:{:{:{