OK, my final (you'll be all pleased to hear!) word. A Tornado F3, in 'Light Combat' Fit at Max Reheat takes about 3000-3500 Ft to get to Unstick. Since Max Dry power is broadly half of max reheat, we can assume that the roll would be about twice as long, ie. 7000Ft. So, It would be possible to take off on a 9000Ft runway in dry power, but, and it's a BIG but, your take off safety margins in the event of a rejected take off would be non existant! One shot deal, any problems and you've had it. You wouldn't even to be able to take the overrun cable! (Too Fast for weight).

So, although theoretically 'possible'....... 'actually' very stupid. In a similar way, it is 'possible' to walk slowly accross the M1 blindfolded.

Please feel free to use any technique you like, but for me it's 2 good burners or nothing.

Regards to All,

Advo :)

GR1/4 v Burners?
 

It's somewhat imotive. I remember seeing a situation when, at Bruggen, a IX Sqn GR1, operating from the southern taxiway, get's airborne but, looses a burner; "lummy days" he put the bloody thing back down on the ground and engages the RHAG!! Worst bit of adhering to the pre-take off brief I ever saw in all my life. They know who they were!:mad:

3P.

that must have been fun.

I was in akrotiri with 11 and we had a hlwscu failure and jammed the waggly wings at 45 degrees. fast landing, I believe the grobag broke the wheelbrakes and so used his nuts to stop the rot.

Can't remember the exact numbers but believe the ooomph in full burner is about 60% greater than max dry. Who was it that coined the phrase(corny)'See those needles swing, feel those babies bite' Yuk!!:hmm:

3P - Not me!

Nice panorama of the Kilpatrick Hills in the video, quite a few WW2 cabs still up there (in pieces)
It doesnt matter about dry/reheat T/O if the wings are still swept!!! as some of the girlschool so nearly found out once......:ouch:

jonesthepilot

It's closer to say max dry thrust is about 60% of max reheat.

1.67 x f*ck all is still f*ck all! Just noisier.

Beagle, what a pity.... you usually speak sense and reality.

Advo

Banter, me old, nothing more....

Is that still allowed in today's grey PC world?

As a mere aside...

I did 3 years at Cottesmore on TTTE where we flew exclusively clean aircraft (not even pylons) and despite having only the 101 engines fitted which had less reheat thrust but the same dry power (I think ???) I always wondered whether we could take-off in dry power and if anyone had ever worked out the figures. It certainly felt like you could.

I do understand the banter about weedy thrust, but I did once have a genuine 590kts in dry power at low level out of a GR1, and that wasn't at the end of a dive or anything, just low level RTB from Donna Nook and forgot I'd left them at Max Dry. :ok:

"Banter, me old, nothing more....

Is that still allowed in today's grey PC world?"


You can't call it that...it's a paler shade of charcoal!

just another jocky,

You were doing well indeed to squeeze that from a TTTE jet with 101's! :D

As I remember, the 101's only had something like 8000lbs thrust in Dry range, whereas the 103's had around 9600lbs eventually, post the 8% compressor mods.

Good work fella!! :ok:


Flipflopman

Surely the old saying:

"The three most useless things in flying are height above you, runway behind you and one second ago"

still count?

I've never had the inclination to find out whether anything can take off on less than max power.

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are very few old bold pilots."

:hmm:

Nine out of ten take-off runs you've every experienced on an airliner will have been with much less than maximum thrust. But I guess there are no derate figures for FJs :}

Combat, bleed off or max reheat, bleed on are both approved techniques.

With respect LP, those are not really in the same order as a rated take off, and are not in theirselves classed as a 'derate' figure for the Tornado

Tornado's nearest to a rated take off must be a 'Low' selected datum with ECS selected 'ON'

Even this though, as I'm sure you'll agree, is in a different league to a 744 EPR 'Rated' take off.

Flipflopman

flip flop

It was just a point of interest really.
BTW, I'm told the datum switch stays in the low position these days.

LP, you are right. The 'Carlos Fandango' (Datum) switch stays firmly wirelocked in Low. The reason for this, is that after certain 'modifications', selection of High would give the F3 an unacceptable power advantage over the Typhoon.

Now we wouldn't want that, would we? :E

Advo

PS- 101 Dry - 8400lb 103 (With 106 Compressor) Dry - 9400lb. Max RH (ISA Sea level) 17,600lb.

wasn't the decu datum switch set to give an extra XX degrees of temp in the combustion chamber?? and then didn't putting the PLA to combat give another XX on top?? Didn't know if the figures were not for public display or not. I do remember when we redatumed all the decus on 11sqn the first 4 ship of monday morning took off with comments of sporty jets etc and came back to 4 sets of double boro's front to back. My mate Billy wasn't a happy sootie.