I think if you have a look at Bastion and KAF out in the 'stan, you'll find that Chinooks have been doing QRA since LAST year!

"Well i'd like to see a Chinook doing QRA 24/7 like the Typhoon will be doing this year or do you think that's a waste of time too!!"

I think you will find the whole SH force would love a try at QRA 24/7/365/52 on the east coast of blighty instead of the muck and bullets they currently find themselves in you utter tw@t

:eek: :eek: THREAD CREEP.


Back on topic.


Eurofigher, some-where abroad, not where it should be.

Stand Up/Stood Up what's it all about ?
 

So what is all this stood up/standing up b0ll0cks all about then ? It's only beecome part of the RAF lexicon fairly recently. Has it come from the creeeping green influence ? Didn't we used to form squadrons and the like, rather than stand them up ?

S_H

"I think you will find the whole SH force would love a try at QRA 24/7/365/52 on the east coast of blighty instead of the muck and bullets they currently find themselves in you utter tw@t"

Touch a nerve did I?

I was not having a go at the SH force lads and lasses who do a great job wherever they are...Its not our fault here that Typhoon is years behind .We're doing our best to get it operational and into the front line wherever that may be.

Ignore him. He was abused.



... in training.

Abused or not my directional consulting chum at least I got the job I applied for :ok:

Conningsby yes you did touch a nerve as your statement was rather crass, I have been away from the SH world for a few years but have lots of friends within, my comment was a little strong for which I apologise, however the sentiment remains.

I'm just saying we have bought too many.
If I want to cook Mrs Wokka pasta, I nip down the shops buy a bag of penne and a tin of chopped tomatoes, I don't by 200 odd tins of tomatoes and find I've got no money for the pasta.
Same with the Typhoon. UK Air PLC does not take ground, we just support those that do. When regiments are being axed, and the elements that support them the most are being stretched to the limit, it makes little sense to blow the budeget buying an inordinate amount of air cover for these troops remaining.
QRA - Yeah good job, and Typhoon can only be an improvement on the F3, but 200 odd aircraft ???????????????

I think we just got stuck with a procurement programme that, 25 years ago, seemed to be a good deal that fitted our strategic requirements of the time. Then the price escalated and the political picture changed but nobody had the guts to say 'Stop'. I don't think you can blame the Air Force for that.

As it seems we're commited to paying for them all even if we don't get them all, it seem daft to me to say we don't want them because we can't make a saving on them.

So why don't we take delivery of them all? Then put all the a/c into a continual upgrade/operational/storage etc etc cycle?
This would give the operators the most upto date airframes available.
Flying hours could be kept low helping manage FI so that the a/c could be operated nearer to its full RTS for much longer.
Additionaly by managing the fleet properly the useful service life could be extended by many years providing savings in the long run.

As for it's role. The F15 was designed as an air superiority fighter "Not a pound for ground" was the quote I seem to remember. It seems to be a decent enough ground attack platform now. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Writing off Typhoon as a ground attack a/c so soon seems premature to me.

Isn't the Concrete Convention on in Las Vegas, maybe the Typhoon F2 is going one better than the Tornado F2, and upgrading from Blue Circle to something a bit more expensive!!:p

wokkameister, you just said that the large number of ac would be "an inordinate amount of air cover for these troops remaining". Since when did the troops complain they had too much air?

The fact it is late is not a fault of the current operators; rest assured they are working their asses off!
You know as well as I do that you cannot deploy a jet before all the trials are complete. Remember that the lead multi role sqn hasn't even formed (stood up (sic)) yet!

In due course the jet will also have to cover QRA S, QRA N, the Falklands, and any other ongoing op deployments. Give it a chance.

I suggest that the troops remaining don't want air cover; they want close air support. So for pity's sake give the thing back its gun!

Agree with clockwork.

Phochs, your 100% correct, you can never have too much air cover.

That is of course unless your now a postman instead of a soldier because the budget wouldn't stretch to your regiment and 200 odd zoomy things.

Air cover.....close air support.....same thing in my book! Typhoon has got a 27mm Mauser in it.

I seem to remember a while back something stating that because the RAF didn't see the need for the gun in the first tranche, that it was removed, this called all sorts of problems and an awful lot of cash to solve; and now, they're going to be replaced.

Or did I get the wrong end of the proverbial stick?

The bean counters saw sense and backed down

Highlander - the gun saga, in brief:

1. Senior Officer decrees that ASRAAM means that gun less likely to be needed so has it removed as a means of getting bean counters off his back.

2. Loud noises questioning senior officer's parentage/sanity/understanding are heard.

3. Tranche 1 aircraft to have the gun on board, but no ammo; Tranches 2 & 3 to have something in lieu of gun

4. Becomes clear that it would be cheaper to install the gun, minus ammo, rather than develop specially machined lump of metal to fit space left by ommitting gun. Gun to be unsupported, however, and no ammo bought

5. Loud noises questioning a different senior officer's sanity/understanding are heard

6. Consensus develops that gun should be supported, not least since if Typhoon is to be used in AG role, experience shows that strafing isn't a dead concept.

7. Late 2006/early 2007 AOC 1 Grp quietly announces that gun will be supported, since it appears that it may come in handy...

in case he needs to shoot himself in the foot again.

So Typhoon has quietly got its gun back! A triumph for common sense or the positive result from convoluted fudging (no dirty comments from the infants please).

I always took air cover to mean friendly aircraft on scene to keep naughty aircraft away from grounglings, ie air-air, while close air support was friendly aircraft dropping things on naughty groundlings, ie air-ground.