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We'll shortly have more carriers than frigates at this rate....................
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A sarky one-liner that made me chuckle :D
. . . . . (for once!) |
Thoroughly depressing, from Iron to Lame Duck, only seems yesterday I was posting about the rumour she was going to get Westminster's S2087 fitted (that was almost exactly two years ago). .Let's spoil the Fleet for a ha'porth of tar has been the mantra of successive governments all my life (I was born after Sandys but before the first Wilson government when Healey started the acceleration of rot stemming from Sandys' heavy refocussing on Nuclear Deterrence (although a reduction in conventional forces from mid-1950s levels and the end of conscription were IMO sensible and necessary).
I am remember feeling old over twenty years ago watching a batch 2 T22 being towed out for use as a target.(probably Boxer which commissioned sometime after I joined) - the T22s had a planned service life of 18 years.life, ironically nearly 24 years after the last batch 2 decommissioned from the RN, a batch 1 and three Batch 2s are AFAIK stil serving with the Brazilian, Chilean, and Romanian Navies. They do not, however, face the conditions of the North Atlantic. |
ROFL......
Video 3 members of the Royal Navy Parachute Display Team landed on HMS Queen Elizabeth this morning. The team, also know as the Raiders typically jump with 5 members. However, one was in dry dock in Long term maintenance and another is being retired and sold to the Bangladesh Navy..... |
https://x.com/TomCotterillX/status/2...559143033?s=20 New Zealand is considering purchasing this British-built Type 31 frigate as the future work horse of its navy. They are looking at the vessel, which will also be used by the Royal Navy as a general purpose warship, alongside the Japanese Mogami-class frigate selected by Australia. The New Zealand government is currently in talks with both the Royal Navy and Australian navy about this, says Chris Penk, New Zealand’s defence minister. Frigate project progress key for maritime security |
RN shipbuilding woes, or How *Not* to build a frigate T31 vs ???
Various news media outlets reporting, that due to issues with the Type 31 builds, Babcock have reported a £140 million charge as it "admitted it built the first two in the wrong sequence. " - mostly affecting Venturer, somewhat affecting Active, and minimally affecting Formidable and Bulldog. Better be more careful with their Virginia Block VI work...
Defence giant Babcock has revealed it took a £140 million hit for late-stage reworks to its newest Royal Navy warships. The London-listed company, which is a major contractor for the Ministry of Defence, told investors that its annual financial results had been impacted by the charge on its Type 31 contract. Under the contract, Babcock is set to deliver five frigates that are being built at its manufacturing site in Rosyth in Fife. The first and second ships took to the water for the first time during the past year after four years of construction. But Babcock said on Wednesday it had experienced “higher than expected levels of rework as a result of changes to the design” and that the work “is being performed in the later stages of completion, and therefore is more complex and more costly”. |
Originally Posted by SLXOwft
(Post 12085924)
Various news media outlets reporting, that due to issues with the Type 31 builds, Babcock have reported a £140 million charge as it "admitted it built the first two in the wrong sequence. " - mostly affecting Venturer, somewhat affecting Active, and minimally affecting Formidable and Bulldog. Better be more careful with their Virginia Block VI work...
PA Media via STV There is no amount of "rework" on Gods green earth that would incur that amount of cost. It'll be an excuse to cover the fact they're learning how to build ships. |
Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 12086085)
But, but......according to Babcock, T31 was a mature design so no risk!
There is no amount of "rework" on Gods green earth that would incur that amount of cost. It'll be an excuse to cover the fact they're learning how to build ships. |
Nobody seems to have mentioned that any possible future buy of Type 31s by New Zealand will no doubt be used by the UK government as an excuse to prioritise overseas sales and further delay delivery of RN hulls - conveniently saving the UK having to spend money on defence.
Or is it a case of pprune readers being astute enough to realise this without the need for it having to actually be said? |
given the failed efforts to sell much in the way of UK ships abroad for so long I can see that no-one wants to forgo opening up a market, especially as the Treasury is desperate for more exports. The problem is the years when we never ordered anything ourselves
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Originally Posted by Biggus
(Post 12086121)
Nobody seems to have mentioned that any possible future buy of Type 31s by New Zealand
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Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 12086378)
Because with the announcement of the 06FFM winning the australian very few people believe it has a chance. Even if it was to win it could wind up indonesian built. But the whole indo thing is up in the air. Originally they discussed 4 locally built 30FFM around 2019, but in 2021 selected 2 locally built arrowheads (with 2 more recently announced) and 6 FREMM. Now they are having meeting with japanese Govt and apparently the mogami (dont specify which version) are back on the table. So NZ could end up with either mogami or arrowhead made in indonesia
There was an article published on NavalNews today https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...rs-from-japan/ New Zealand doesn't have the luxury of looking to buy from multiple sources as it is only looking for two frigates so playing off Arrowhead/T31 vs Mogami is, IMO, the only way they can leverage cost control. Given interoperability is a key driver the RAN going for Mogami makes it look like a racing certainty. However, the NZ Defence Capability Plan 2025 stated: The Anzac frigates will be replaced with comparable contemporary frigates and the offshore patrol vessels will also be replaced with consideration given to whether commonality of design or systems with the frigates may be possible. The importance of a common design is to maximise crew training, qualification, and flexibility, while reducing costs of ongoing maintenance and support. A combination of capabilities from combat platforms, uncrewed technologies (air, surface and subsurface), deployable teams (for example survey, diving, and boarding), and patrol ships will be considered. |
.............
https://x.com/Microinteracti1/status...906800065?s=20 Sweden Just Bought Four French Frigates Sweden has selected Naval Group as the supplier for its four new Luleå-class frigates, announced by Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson at a press conference in Stockholm on Tuesday. Defence Minister Pål Jonson cited rapid delivery, cost-sharing with France and Greece, and a proven air defence system as the reasons for choosing the French bid. The deal is worth around $5 billion and represents Sweden’s first acquisition of large warships since the early 1980s. Two frigates are expected by 2030, with two more following by 2035. Not a single bolt from a Lockheed Martin catalogue. Not a syllable of Pentagon influence. Stockholm looked at what was on offer, decided it wanted something that actually exists and already works, and wrote a cheque to Paris. The FDI class is already in service with the French Navy and has been ordered by Greece. Crucially, crews can begin training on the vessel immediately – a detail that rather undermined the British and Spanish pitches, which largely involved ships that hadn’t been built yet...... |
a detail that rather undermined the British and Spanish pitches, which largely involved ships that hadn’t been built yet...... What government is going to rely on British shipbuilders if they need warships for the next decade? Sad to see but our manufacturing industries have been savaged by short-term financial shenanigans and governments that can't see beyond the five years between elections. |
Originally Posted by Geriaviator
(Post 12088667)
What government is going to rely on British shipbuilders if they need warships for the next decade? Sad to see but our manufacturing industries have been savaged by short-term financial shenanigans and governments that can't see beyond the five years between elections. The Clyde - in the form of Govan and Scotstoun - has had continuous shipbuilding work for nigh-on thirty years, albeit recently hamstrung by Paul Draysons Maritime Industrial Strategy, which is why its taking them twelve years to build (badly) a frigate. What is actually missing is competence in real delivery of ships, as opposed to systems engineering. |
I see HMS Prince of Wales is delayed in Stavanger for repairs.....
This was after taking part in Exercise DMON26, with an air wing of just 4 helicopters embarked, 2 Merlins, 2 Wildcats...! |
Originally Posted by Biggus
(Post 12094381)
I see HMS Prince of Wales is delayed in Stavanger for repairs.....
Originally Posted by Biggus
(Post 12094381)
This was after taking part in Exercise DMON26, with an air wing of just 4 helicopters embarked, 2 Merlins, 2 Wildcats...! The repairs are routine I think - warships are always breaking things. Having such a tiny number of ASW helicopters embarked for a major ASW exercise seems odd, as I have noted: Constant ASW helicopter operations are best supported by a large deck with multiple helicopters, as collocating them simplifies coordination, communications, and maintenance and support. Physics also shows that modern long range sonars fitted to ASW warships need to be used in conjunction with dipping sonar to achieve their potential - and vice versa. As with all such detection systems (radar/sonar/optical) there is trade off between range and resolution. The long range sonar provides long range detection, and the dipping sonar provides pinpoint accuracy. From the conclusions of: The Aircraft Carrier and Sea Control (carriers needed in the Atlantic and elsewhere for Air Defence and ASW - due to Maths/Physics/Geography) However, it has been noted that no towed array equipped warships (from any NATO navy) took part in the exercise either! Not quite the ASW capability demonstration some of us expected. |
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