Things that I love
 

Amazes me how one thread ends up as another. So!.............

Uni V No Uni.

My Daughter: At Uni, training to be a teacher. 4 Years, lot of work and she works part time to fund herself.

My Son: Wants to be a copper and has been advised that as long as he gets the requisite GCSE's they are happy if he works until he can go to "copper college" as he will gain people and life skills rather than educational.

Morale: Horses for courses.

Tigs,

By God, was that me? Were we at Linton together?

I think you will find I was 26 when I finished the QWI course, but it is nice to hear I will be CAS!

:ok: :ok:

SSSE
I didn't say anything at all about a graduate, good or otherwise. I just asked stupido for some more info on the 'life experience' that he appears to think can be found only at uni, and I listed a few items that I wanted excluded..........honest!

In your first 'idea' you listed some admirable projects done by your friends during their gap years and I agree that those individuals have shown that they have something to offer the RAF. But all this activity took place, as you said, in their gap years and therefore before your friends went to uni. The gap year is not the exclusive preserve of the budding graduate, and there are plenty of other youngsters not planning on going to uni but who also take a year out after school and do the same sorts of activities and achieve equally laudable results. In your second 'idea' you mentioned getting into and out of financial difficulties, learning buzz-words and making well-balanced career decisions while at uni. Nowadays none of this is unique to graduates; in fact, anyone with a credit card, a TV and an ounce of vision can do all 3.

I do not denigrate the academic side of university life (although I have yet to be persuaded about the value to the RAF of some of the degree courses taken) and I made no mention of it in my first post anyway. I would just like to know a little more about the particular brand of 'life experience' that seemingly can be found only at university and is so much more valuable and enriching than that enjoyed elsewhere by other school-leavers.

Yes I too am a graduate. Does it help me do my job? A resounding no! Would I have been ready for the 'rigours' of OASC and Cranditzwhen I was 18? Again a resounding no!

The fact that I was allowed to get out and about around the world allowed me to grow up to go do IOT. Yes there are degree courses that will help with professional trg, but they almost certainly won't help you be 'an officer first.'

Life experience comes in many different ways and, if it works, all avenues should be accepted. Graduates and DEs certainly shouldn't be lording over each other or anyone else as to the relevant merits of their own personal experience. It's how we do our jobs that counts.

As an example, I saw an old mate from Cranditz last week who was DE. I'm sure that he'd agree with me when I say that at Cranditz he could be a cocky little git/typical 18 year old sometimes. However, a couple of fg tours later and he's a changed bloke and is now off instructing.

Everyone has their own opinion, personally I think we've given the world's STUPIDest man enough air time. :ok:

During my time at Dartmouth my Flight was divided into two sets for academic studies; Graduates and Science based A-Levels and those with non-science based A-Levels/O Levels. I think there were 24 of us, 12 pilots and 12 observers and the split between the two sets was about 50/50. After the ensuing flying training 5 of us actually got our wings and went front-line, whilst the rest were chopped or resigned. All of the 5 that qualified were from the non-grads set, which either proves you don't have to be academically gifted to be aircrew, or the grads found it all too boring and easy, but as with all statisitcs you can draw any conclusion you like.

p.s. One of those that was in the thicko's set is now a Commodore, but you wouldn't have spotted all that potential back then!

I went to Cranditz at 18 and was my own worst enemy. Immature doesn't come into it. However, unlike STUPIDMAN, I happen to think that the RAF is an excellent place to learn life skills and to mature. Not only that but I was a second tour, operational captain as a Fg Off whilst Fl Lt 1st tourists were my co-pilots.
The one thing that annoys me is that graduates who are quite clearly not ready for it, are given the rank. They should earn it by proving themselves professionally and not because they have spent 3/4 years weaving baskets and getting drunk. O-kay, pay them more if you really want them, but why should they masquerade as senior junior officers when then they only have 2 years under their belt. We have a Flt Lt holding officer with us at the moment!!! This is someone who a junior rank or even a junior offier may well look to for advice thinking that they had some time in.
Finished.

Better by degrees?
 

Tanewha

The (old) RNZAF system that exisited until the mid 1990s was probably the best compromise with respect to the seniority affored to graduates. Aircrew were not commissioned until they got their brevets. Graduates got 3-6 months seniority over Direct Entrants. I had a masters' degree on entry - 6 years at varsity - which gave me about 9 months over a kid out of school. I felt I did have life skills, but the degree per se didn't make any difference to my (average) performance during professional training.

I have returned to university after 20-odd years and enjoying the freedom immensly. I have found the orthodoxy of the Services - class-riden and dogmatic thinking, anti-intellectualism, mechanistic promotion methods, Byzantine posting systems (eg having one's career managed by a school-leaver) - very constraining, but I have enjoyed my time. My regret is that I did not jump from the RAF at the end of a SSC. The post-grads I mix with look up at awe with those with Service backgrounds (and there is a surprising number at Cambridge); we in turn, are envious of the bright gilded youth who are just starting out on their careers.

But as one poster stated, horses for courses. I now enjoy being paid to read, think and write - and get a fair bit of interesting travel as well. That's what I love. Could be a lot worse...

SE Asian Crash

I did a bl@@dy tough degree AND it was relevent to my future career AND I probably wouldn't have joined if that work wasn't taken into account over some gobsh!te who had just rolled out of public school.

That said, its also quite unfair that some get 4 years seniority when one year was taken abroad, and those who do a 4 year sandwich course with a year in industry only get 3 years seniority. Seems upside down to me.

To all the comments about basket-weaving and 3 years of getting drunk &c, these are only relevent to some degrees. I'm proud of what I achieved at university, adn I hope those that spent 3 years doing media studies, golf-course management and so can say the same. But then they will see what that is worth when they're made redundant from the RAF in the next round of cuts!

I went straight from Public School to RAFC Cranwell as a Flt Cdt. Did a year, then 4 at university (it should have been 3 but I enjoyed the UAS too much!), then back to do a Graduate Entry course.

Glad I did both; 'real' Cranwell was quite hard but fair. University opened one's eyes somewhat though - and I really appreciated that.

On balance I reckon that a year out, followed by 3 years at RAFC including proper BFTS training with degree accredited military studies and academics would be top banana. Plus a bit of pine pole carrying and marching around, of course!

Fat chance though.....

Don't you just love a classless society.

If only you'd worked harder at school Tanewha

I'd be where, exactly?