Dantruck – if I could help the Pope I would and I sincerely hope your contribution brings forth this miscreant. However, this is an open forum and in responding so predictably to the post in which I gave my low opinion of journos both you and Jacko have turned it into a personal slanging match – this is the way most threads go nowadays on Prune in case you have not noticed. If you will desist so will I.

:hmm:


................

This, if true, is an outrage.
Jacko or whatever your name is. Your rantings are worthy of first prize in the Alastair Campbell Smoke Screen Awards. If you have any pertinent comments to make please go ahead, otherwise stop distracting others off the main point of this thread.
Pope
Please keep us all advised as to your progress in this case
Thank you
FEBA

In this particular case, it's clear that a journalist has been found wanting - whether through ignorance, accident or malice.

It's equally clear that mutual misunderstanding and incomprehension between the Armed Forces and civilian society as a whole, and journalists in particular, will only serve to make such problems more common.

I therefore make no apology for taking Soddim to task for his silly, largely groundless and offensive tirade, nor for poking fun at his spelling of the word credence.

"Unfortunately, misquoting and twisting the facts is stock in trade for most journos". (This was the statement which turned the thread into a slanging match).

A more open approach to dealing with journalists, with "How much can we tell him?" as its basic principle, rather than "How little can we tell him" would be of enormous help in winning trust and in helping journalists do their jobs properly. If left in an information vacuum, journalists will inevitably try to get what they need, and in doing so will get things wrong, and sometimes, (as seems to have been the case here) over-step the bounds of civilised behaviour. That's never excusable and I don't condone it for a moment.

There ought to be more understanding that there are good, well-motivated, sympathetic journos along with the bad apples, and people should perhaps try to be less inclined to leap to conclusions on the basis of their prejudices about the press.

If anyone has any concrete details about who this journo was, or who he was representing, then some of the journo Pruners would, I'm sure, be happy to look into it.

Jacko

Roughly translated - 'misquoting and twisting the facts' ? - but that was not a personal criticism of you Jacko, simply my opinion of journos in general gained from my lifetime experience of your colleagues efforts to fill their columns and programmes.

I will continue to post my opinions where relevant - and I do not believe in political correctness - but I will not accept that gives you the right to turn it into a personal slanging match that is irrelevant to the thread. I will also continue to make spelling mistakes because my ISS tutor is no longer on this planet (not sure he ever was).

If it interests you, no member of the armed forces of this country is permitted to communicate with the press without permission, so you might continue to have difficulty getting such people to give you your story but it does not mean they have any particular bias against civilians - in fact, nowadays, most live amongst them, socialise with them and are just as civil as they are.

Jack
I regret to say that, in my opinion, your last posting is complete tosh, or more accurately sophistry. This thread concerns complaints about the outrageous behaviour of a journalist not a profession.
Your rather cruel comments about someones poor spelling can only be construed as diversionary tactics of a fraternal nature. I believe your contribution to outing the unscrupulous within would serve your profession, and those that have complained on this thread, far better.
I find your comments regarding an information vacuum amusing. Generally speaking journalists become highly imaginative when confronted with such dilemmas.
If you are able to assist in finding the person responsible then I'm sure many would be most grateful to you , please desist from the playgound stuff.
Thank you
FEBA

I think the stereotype of unscrupulous journos who deliberately twist the facts for their own ends, and 'as policy' (their 'stock in trade') is both offensive and dangerously far from the truth. Journos who sometimes get it wrong because they haven't got themselves a decent brief are regrettably common, and there is a huge difference.

Making absurd generalisations will never help win the majority of journos over to what is a worthwhile cause.

Re this individual, I suspect that it would be someone from a local paper, or a freelance or semi-freelance stringer. Specialist journos would be too afraid of the ****-storm which would follow this kind of behaviour, and most National journos would know the ropes well enough not to do it.

I'm making people in our industry aware of the interest surrounding this, and will PM the Pontiff if I find out anything.

OK folks, lets calm this thread down a little. Over several years recently, before I retired, I had the pleasure of working closely with a press liaison officer. He was in uniform, but had extensive media training and had a huge network of journo colleagues. We spent many hours discussing the press, their work, attitudes, methods and so on - I gained an invaluable insight into the media world.

So much so that I changed my hostile anti-press views. It is true that as a Serviceman we are forbidden to talk to the press, but we had to transfer any calls to the PLO. Too bad if he wasn't in his office - it left the journo without any info and little prospect of getting the job done (deadlines spring to mind). Rather, this PLO was magnificently politically incorrect and used to advise the Stn Exec cadre to talk directly to the press if the situation warranted it - eg if it was desirable to get the press informed quickly, with something very good happening on Base, or where comment was needed fast as in the case of an ac crash.

He also taught me that it was a good idea to make available to the press as many facilities as could be reasonably allowed in a very controlled manner. For example, if an aircraft crashed, a pre-arranged plan swung into action including arranging buses, food, telephones, escorts, a briefing programme to be given by a knowledgeable Stn Exec, a press release schedule set up, and so on. A press enquiry desk was also set up and fully manned by someone who could give informed comment or information. This desk was kept fully informed of developments in detail by the disaster controller as a high priority.

Rather we worked WITH the press rather than against them, to get and keep them on-side. I didn't get to meet many journos, but those I did meet I found to be courteous, interested and sympathetic. By the time I finished, I found that they were a very professional bunch, with integrity, where 'off the record' was treated as just that - I cringed at times to hear what they were being told 'off the record'.

So appreciating both sides of the arguement, can we please lift this important thread out of the slanging phase, all shake hands and say a mutual sorry and work to find out who this little s*** is and dump him in the kakhi-p**h with his editor/paper owner.

FJJP
You've just reiterated what I have been saying. Thank you.
Jacko
Your help may prove invaluable. May I suggest that a public forum be more appropriate for revelaing the identity of this individual rather than PM's
FEBA

How you give me any leads is entirely up to you, FEBA!

Guys. As you know this forum is thought to be self policing. In other words we rely upon you to avoid slanging matches and any other form of abuse - particularly if they are OFF topic.

Listen to FJJP. He speaks sense.

So.......bite the bullet before you fire it! Your second line of defence is the submit button ;)

Journalists simply pitch their writing at the level of their readership. People who read tabloids deserve to be lied to. Sloppy journalism in 'quality' papers is less forgivable. The Indi and the Guardian tend to uphold the best reporting and editorial standards, while The Times seems to have become a tabloid in disguise. As for the Torygraph, well, say no more.

Can anyone close to the family or this incident indicate whether any kind of follow-up is underway?

Pope...check your PM's

Dantruck

Scud,

The 'Indi' and the Guardian are line-toeing mouthpieces of this Neo-Communist/Fascist Improved New Labour government. The have NO impartiallity and print utter B***cks or whatever Alistair Cambell throws at them (tautology methinks...) 90% of the time (possibly more).

Any updates on this?

16 Blades

I didn't know it was possible to be both 'neo-Communist and Fascist' at the same time; but I suppose New Labour comes as close as you'll get in their efforts to be all things to all men (Opps! I mean 'persons'); the PC police (communist/fascist, or both)will now be coming to see me, so you ain't seen me, right!!

16blades

Good polemic, have you ever actually read the Guardian
for any significant period?

-- Andrew

The rumour (and I hasten to add RUMOUR) that was circulated to me at the time of this horrific incident was that He was infact a She and She had done something similar before (I think during GW2) and that She works for the BBC.

I may be wrong.

PP

On a related note I and 13 others made a complaint to Broadcasting Standards about Sky's insensitive coverage of the Firefly crash. I am delighted to say the complaint was upheld (though not all aspects):

The Panel considered that the repeated use of the footage showing the moment of impact, in addition to that of the wreckage, had been gratuitous. This was exacerbated by the insensitive nature of some aspects of the commentary and visual treatment of the tragedy. The complaints were upheld.

The full text is on page 16 of bulletin 68, including Sky's comments in response to the complaint, which can be downloaded here:

http://www.bsc.org.uk/pdfs/bulletin/bulletin68.pdf

Journo's are suckers...oh yes they are!
 

This makes me chuckle...and lifts spirits slightly...

Just chucking in my bobs'worth! During Telic, a young and fruity local journalist managed to get through to an operational phone number on my base...(its not really that hard, just phone the station/base/unit/depot...etc..etc...that you are interested in and then type in a combination of extension numbers until somebody picks up the receiver!).

Journo type then tried to 'pump' information from a colleague under false identity and rank...said colleague very quickly cottoned-onto the fact that the caller was not at all bona fide.

What was funny, however, was that instead of redirecting the gullable chap onto the MOD Press Officer as you would normally, it had been a long shift and he thought it would be much more amusing to fill said journo full of fancy, impressive sounding poo!

Worked a treat it did!

Extract from part of a very long story from local rag: 'The (unnamed, of course!) Echo'.

''The Tucano's were specially modified at RAF Spadeadam to carry individual loads of up to four Lithuanian made Paveway III 'smart bombs', which use solar energy to power them at high speed into their targets. The squadron is to be imminently deployed to an unnamed airbase in Libya''

Oh, how we chuckled...still makes me smile!

Hope it made you smile, too!