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-   -   What would you give to Ukraine (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/657640-what-would-you-give-ukraine.html)

DirtyProp 17th Feb 2024 08:34

What would you give to Ukraine
 
To repel Russia and terminate the conflict? And why?
No nukes allowed.

Timmy Tomkins 17th Feb 2024 09:13

Ask the Ukrainians, they know what they need and should have had it when they had the initiative

DirtyProp 17th Feb 2024 09:42

I fully agree, and I share your frustration.
My question was to start a discussion on what weapons and systems would be best for such conflict and why.

Fitter2 17th Feb 2024 10:23

As much anti aircraft and missile systems as they need. As much artillery ammunition as they can use. Long range (500km +) missiles.

Thrust Augmentation 17th Feb 2024 11:25

An assassin in the Kremlin.
or
Their Tu-22M's, Tu-160's & nukes back so that this didn't start in the 1st place.

DogTailRed2 17th Feb 2024 11:25

Everything they need.

BANANASBANANAS 17th Feb 2024 13:54

Whatever they ask for, immediately!

NutLoose 17th Feb 2024 14:11

And more.allow them to use Western supplied weapons against Russia, long range missiles,

and I would give them the nuclear capability to destroy Moscow, St Petersburg and Sochi and only then might they withdraw and stay out.

.

henra 17th Feb 2024 14:48


Originally Posted by Fitter2 (Post 11598965)
As much anti aircraft and missile systems as they need. As much artillery ammunition as they can use. Long range (500km +) missiles.

Begs the question: Down to which level are you ready to deplete your own stocks? How many days of remaining Ammo? 0? 1? 3? One week (If you currently have that much at all - most European Countries likely don't)? Air Defence: How many missiles do you want to remain able to intercept in your own Country? 1? 10? more? In how many of your cities?
It is easy to give away if you have. Looking at the state of affairs in basically all European Countries there is a serious balance to be taken. And yes I truly condemn those politicos who perpetrated that. And yes, I would love to give to Ukraine whatever it takes. I'm afraid we are simply not in a position to do so without critically sacrificing our own ability to defend ourselves afterwards should Ukraine still run out of soldiers (which still is a possibility -after all many, many fled the Country and they are now down to 1/4 of Russia's Population (from a little bit less than 1/3rd), in the relevant demography part potentially even worse).

Jerry Atrick 17th Feb 2024 16:02

A-10s. Lots of them.

BEagle 17th Feb 2024 16:16

Putin. In chains....

Pali 17th Feb 2024 16:50

Time to turn the tide.


Tartiflette Fan 17th Feb 2024 19:25

This makes no sense. How - after two years of war - when one asuumes close and real counts of munitions have been made,, can so much ammo have beemn " misplaced " ? It is also far too much ( I guess ) o hav been stored in one depot, so how can distributed stocks have been "forgotten " ?

DogTailRed2 17th Feb 2024 20:10

If the West decides to supply Ukraine with everything it needs, taking one country as an example the UK, how would it do so?
I would imagine the UK doesn't have a vast munitions stockpile. Most likely it is geared up to a small, limited war of a few months, perhaps a year and then it's resupply capability is also very limited. Just enougth.
Ukraine requires millions of rounds, tens of thousands of shells. Tanks, aircraft, drones, radios, helmets you name it.
The only way I can see the UK supplying all that is to go on a war footing and turn industry over to war production.
As no country has done that exactly how will the West supply Ukraine with `every thing it needs`? Russia IS on a war footing and IS ramping up production.
Unless the West does something quickly Russia will win by sheer weight of numbers.

ORAC 17th Feb 2024 22:25


This makes no sense. How - after two years of war - when one asuumes close and real counts of munitions have been made,, can so much ammo have beemn " misplaced " ? It is also far too much ( I guess ) o hav been stored in one depot, so how can distributed stocks have been "forgotten " ?
Previously discussed - they’ve located supplies outside Europe which can be purchased and, since the EU can’t the target of 1M rounds this year, for some of the funds to be released to buy them.

At the moment the French, amongst the other EU manufacturers, are saying no, they keep the funds and just deliver late.

​​​​​​​In the meantime the Ukrainians at the front are dying for lack of shells….

Coochycool 17th Feb 2024 22:47

Shell stocks and production are one thing. But whatever happened to those darned F-16s? Or A-10s for that matter. Honestly, what are the Red forces going to do about it? Threaten nuking their own neighbourhood for the hundredth time? Just get on with it.

Nigerian Expat Outlaw 18th Feb 2024 09:25

Perhaps a combined SAS/Seal Team 6 group at various locations in Russia briefed to elminate Putin, Lavrov, etc simultaneously ?

NEO

DogTailRed2 18th Feb 2024 10:58


Originally Posted by Nigerian Expat Outlaw (Post 11599406)
Perhaps a combined SAS/Seal Team 6 group at various locations in Russia briefed to elminate Putin, Lavrov, etc simultaneously ?

NEO

It's too high risk. You can't commit special forces when they have very little chance of success.

NutLoose 18th Feb 2024 11:03

One of the problems is although the EU is struggling to supply artillery shells, they are also selling them to other countries that they have contracts and deadlines with, which they cannot renage on, so part of their output is unfortunately for other armies.

NutLoose 18th Feb 2024 11:05


Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan (Post 11599165)
This makes no sense. How - after two years of war - when one asuumes close and real counts of munitions have been made,, can so much ammo have beemn " misplaced " ? It is also far too much ( I guess ) o hav been stored in one depot, so how can distributed stocks have been "forgotten " ?

I would imagine they are being sourced on the open market and can be delivered via the Czech’s


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