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-   -   Tractor Crash (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/657041-tractor-crash.html)

Expatrick 21st Jan 2024 17:36

Somebody barnstorming again!

bobward 22nd Jan 2024 06:44

Normal for Norfolk........

ORAC 22nd Jan 2024 08:12


Thank God he ejected safely, it would be an arable way to die...
I understand he bought the farm…

pilotmike 22nd Jan 2024 08:34


Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 (Post 11580533)
"Your rake, your rake"

Ho ho hoe!

pilotmike 22nd Jan 2024 08:35


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 11580514)
But he barley got out in time.

A rye observation!

Wensleydale 22nd Jan 2024 08:43


Originally Posted by Mogwi (Post 11580549)
Just about to plough in!

A harrowing experience!

Rheinstorff 22nd Jan 2024 09:41


Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 (Post 11580523)
Here's the original Lightning crash from 1962.

It was a Lightning F1 which crashed on final approach to Hatfield on 13 Sep 62 whilst engaged in Red Top trials.

The photographer was paid GBP $1,000 for the photo - GBP 26,738 in 2024 money - and the MOD tried to put a "D" Notice on it.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=56567

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-c...g-Ejection.jpg

It's a footnote, I know, but it's very fashionable to say MOD tried to apply a D Notice (From Aviation_Safety.net: until the Ministry of Defence tried to put a "D Notice" on the photograph banning its publication, which confirmed that it was indeed real and not a fake!).

The D Notice (now DSMA) was always voluntary, so the wording from the quote makes me suspicious of its veracity. D Notices were not imposed, they were agreed with the editors and journalists concerned.

It's hard to imagine what reason could have been cited for trying to 'ban' the photo. It's plausible, I suppose, that a request might have been made to delay publication to avoid any compromise of the inevitable Board of Inquiry. Nevertheless, I've never seen any authoritative source indicate that a D Notice was sought on this photo, merely a number of websites repeating the claim and often using exactly the same words; repetition does not, alas, make a claim more true!.

I'd be delighted if anyone could point me to an authoritative source that confirms a D Notice was sought..

pulse1 22nd Jan 2024 10:40

A silly question with reference to the possibility of a fake photo, why is the tractor driver looking over his right shoulder at something happening on his left side?

DogTailRed2 22nd Jan 2024 11:04


Originally Posted by pulse1 (Post 11581022)
A silly question with reference to the possibility of a fake photo, why is the tractor driver looking over his right shoulder at something happening on his left side?

Just the camera angle. Pivot the camera to the left and you'll see the true picture.

DuncanDoenitz 22nd Jan 2024 11:22

And he had just been talking to the photographer, so his body was already pivoted right.

jolihokistix 22nd Jan 2024 11:39

They've just completed shooting. The trailer will be released shortly.

fallmonk 22nd Jan 2024 19:47

That should be a RAF‐Lutons post 🤣

GeeRam 22nd Jan 2024 20:21

DH's TP, George Aird, crashed through the roof of one of the greenhouses you can see in the background.
In the later 70's while still a TP for BAe George Aird spent a number of years as display pilot for BAe's Mosquito RR299, and also in the mid-80's after retiring from BAe flew the trans-Atlantic ferry flight of Kermit Weeks Mosquito B.35, from the UK across the Atlantic to Florida.


DogTailRed2 22nd Jan 2024 20:27

Did the chute fully open? Looks like a close run thing.

UV 23rd Jan 2024 02:29


Originally Posted by pulse1 (Post 11581022)
A silly question with reference to the possibility of a fake photo, why is the tractor driver looking over his right shoulder at something happening on his left side?

As others have pointed out he was already communicating with the photographer in his two o’clock.

No doubt the cameraman said something really explicit and he wouldn’t want to waste time turning the other way as Lightning Never Strikes Twice.

Fortissimo 23rd Jan 2024 08:19


Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 (Post 11581390)
Did the chute fully open? Looks like a close run thing.

Good question! Both George Aird and his seat ended up a few feet apart inside the greenhouse and he is reported as suffering multiple fractures, but it is not clear whether those came from rate of descent or from impact with the greenhouse structure. The photo was taken during the seat separation phase, which puts it around 1.5 seconds after the BTRU tripped when the seat left the aircraft. One of the WIWOLs will no doubt be able to remember the delay from initiation to seat movement to allow for canopy separation, but I think 0.5 secs would be close to the mark, so about 2 seconds total into the whole sequence. Yes, it was close.

treadigraph 23rd Jan 2024 13:21

George Aird with Kermit's Mossie in '87...


SLXOwft 23rd Jan 2024 13:38

Assuming an MB Mk 4 was fitted to the P1B as with production aircraft

The seat should have functioned as follows:
  • The pilot pulls the face screen seat firing handle
  • Canopy jettison initiated
  • Ejection gun fires, seat moves up guide rails and the secondary cartridges fire
  • Emergency oxygen tripped
  • Aircrew services disconnect
  • Leg restraints operate
  • As seat rises, static line initiates time-delay which fires drogue gun after 0.5 seconds
  • As seat rises, static line initiates time-release unit 22 in. dia then 5 ft dia drogues stabilise and slow seat
Below 10000ft, (low speed)
  • 1.5 second (3 seconds on earlier Mk 4 seats, 1.25 sec on later Mk 4 seats) after initiation of time-release unit
  • The plunger releases scissor shackle to transfer pull of drogue to lifting lines of parachute, releasing it from seat
  • Release face blind
  • Harness and leg lines released from seat
  • Drogues deploy main parachute, pilot separates from seat
  • Normal descent
  • Manual separation system available if necessary. Operation of manual separation handle fires a cartridge that operates a guillotine, severing the parachute attachment line, linkages function releasing parachute harness, negative-g strap, PEC and leg restraint cords.
  • Freeing parachute from seat. Pilot can then use rip cord to operate parachute.
First successful ejection using a Mk4 was from a G.91 in March 57 - XG332 ff 29 May 1959 so I assume it was an early model seat

balsa model 23rd Jan 2024 14:16


Originally Posted by pulse1 (Post 11581022)
A silly question with reference to the possibility of a fake photo, why is the tractor driver looking over his right shoulder at something happening on his left side?


Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 (Post 11581038)
Just the camera angle. Pivot the camera to the left and you'll see the true picture.

I don't see how the camera angle could manage to show the right side of the tractor while the event was happening behind and on tractor's left side.

Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz (Post 11581054)
And he had just been talking to the photographer, so his body was already pivoted right.

Add to this that the trigger sound source was probably quite far behind the current position of the delta winged glider.
Also add to this that the sound was travelling a bit slower that day, putting even more distance between what the camera captured and where the sound source was.

langleybaston 23rd Jan 2024 15:00


Originally Posted by balsa model (Post 11581836)
I don't see how the camera angle could manage to show the right side of the tractor while the event was happening behind and on tractor's left side.

Add to this that the trigger sound source was probably quite far behind the current position of the delta ????????? winged glider.
Also add to this that the sound was travelling a bit slower that day, putting even more distance between what the camera captured and where the sound source was.

Pardon?
Much more likely one hearing aid had run out of battery.


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