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Ascent urges the UK MOD to look for a Hawk T2 replacement.
I bet this will fall on deaf ears the budget as it is.
Ascent Urges UK Defense Ministry To Explore Hawk Trainer AlternativesLONDON–Ascent, the consortium created to run the UK’s Military Flying Training System (MFTS), has suggested that the UK defense ministry explore the procurement of an alternative advanced jet trainer to replace the BAE Systems Hawk T2. The company, a joint venture of Babcock and Lockheed Martin... |
It would have to be critical and the money achieved by canning something else. AFAIK Hawk T.2 OSD is still 2040 so I presume no money will have been considered yet - and the expectation would be UAV platform dominance and quite likely participation in a multinational training programme for the few FJ pilots required.
I would assume any replacement could only be seriously considered if it were contractor supplied (owned or leased), LM doesn't make one - its failed T-X bid was a partnership with KAI for the T-50 Beyond the M-346 what are the options unless the UK was to accept a supersonic trainer? Resurrecting the HAL/BAES Advanced Hawk? AERALIS - Babcock France has recently signed a deal with them. |
Given its continued poor availability and an increased sovereign training demand, it would make sense these discussions are held sooner rather than later. I wonder if there has been talk of wider synergies across the training enterprises given the obvious capability enhancement both TF-50A or M346 could deliver?
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Surely it has to be the
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Hopefully not - an unproven design that hasn't flown from a company with no experience building fighter trainers is the last thing that's needed.
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Originally Posted by BEagle
(Post 11537322)
Surely it has to be the
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Textron Scorpion ;)
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Why not just build more Hawks?
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Because it's an obsolete airframe and not representative of any of the current FL platforms. There are better options available these days.
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It should really be a new UK airframe from a credible company.
I wouldn't mind seeing the T-7 in the UK - they should have done all the problem solving by then. |
Coochycool
The Hawk production line closed a while ago. It will never re-open so new Hawks cannot be an option regardless. Buying some used ones is a possibility though!
This does all feel a little like some people at Aeralis and Ascent have been doing some back channel work to scratch each others backs perhaps. BV |
"It should really be a new UK airframe from a credible company."
Not a hope - who would build it? And who else can we sell it to? |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 11537773)
"It should really be a new UK airframe from a credible company."
Not a hope - who would build it? And who else can we sell it to? The Qatar-based Al Shamal 5 investment fund has taken a stake in UK aircraft development firm Aeralis, Janes has learned. Companies House filings on 22 September revealed that the fund was the party behind the GBP10.5 million (USD14.3 million) investment that was first announced on 16 September. The investment in the company came with the allocation of 134,892 ordinary shares in the company, along with corresponding rights related to voting, dividends, and capital distribution. As a result, the investment equates to a 17.48% holding in the company. Qatari registration documents reveal that the Al Shamal 5 fund's significant shareholder is Barzan Holdings QSTP-LLC, an arm of the Qatari Ministry of Defence's Barzan Holdings organisation. Barzan Holdings was launched in 2018 to help the country manage defence sector research and development (R&D) programmes and investments, as well as with strategic procurements. Prior to the disclosure of the identity of the funding, Aeralis had said that the investment had been secured to help “support the design, development, and first flight of the Advanced Jet Trainer, Aeralis's first platform”, and that the fund “has committed to investing in the next generation of cutting-edge, market-disrupting solutions and the flexible, affordable, and connected aircraft systems designed by Aeralis [that] will serve the fast-evolving requirements across the future of flying training and light combat air”. The Aeralis training aircraft has been developed as a modular system, which allows for the engines and outer edge of the wings to be changed as required to suit the curriculum. Partners for the aircraft include Rolls-Royce, which will be providing propulsion systems for the pre-production aircraft and potential future versions of the aircraft, KBR, and Atkins. |
Replacing Hawks with Hawks sounds like a good idea.
Boeing Hawks sounds like a possibility. Fifth generation trainer with an integrated ground training system all in one package. Sorry about the lack of British designed, built thing but we know that just is not going to happen. With a bucket of paint they could even come in all Red rather than just having a red tail. https://www.boeing.com/defense/t-7a/index.page https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6f54a754d3.jpg |
A classic tale, any bets that the £5M will not be paid and it becomes Qatari majority owned by Feb 24. |
Seeing as LM own a massive stake in Ascent, then buying T-50As seems the most likely scenario:
Then, what to do with a fleet of 28x Hawk T2s with life left to 2040…oh, yes, let’s paint them red… Simples :ok: |
I instructed on Hawk T1 at Chivenor and consider it a fine aeroplane, perfect for advanced/tactical training. Nothing wrong with what we have. Pity we cannot have a Hawk Mk3. From an instructor point of view it is vital that the back-seater has a perfect view.
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Can anything be said for the Fouga Magister and its periscope
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2a4fa3eca.jpeg |
"Sorry about the lack of British designed, built thing but we know that just is not going to happen."
always struck me as odd that someone building a very successful aircraft never looked at developing a successor - same with the HS125 Biz jet |
Sharpend
I believe it is a little while since you taught on the Hawk T1 at Chivenor. I’m afraid you do yourself a disservice by imagining that times and requirements haven’t moved on since then.
I taught Tac Weapons on the Hawk T1, T2, 115 and 166. During my 15 years of Hawk instructing I saw many changes. The most obvious of which was a shift from a frontline consisting of Tornados, Jaguars and Harriers to one consisting of Typhoons and F35s. Whilst the T1 system was a good system and pushed out very capable pilots that could still provide value today, it would not be one that would provide the input standard desired of modern OCUs. I love the Hawk T2 (that combined with the 166 make up the largest slice of my 3000+ Hawk hours) and I rate it very highly as a training platform. Notwithstanding its current serviceability woes, if I had a blank sheet of paper now to design a new trainer it wouldn’t come out looking like a Hawk. It would almost certainly look a lot more like a M346, T50 or Red Hawk and possess all of the advanced handling characteristics associated with such aircraft along with the modern avionics suites (which the Hawk T2 does have but could use a midlife update to incorporate some modern sensor simulation). BV |
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