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Originally Posted by downsizer
(Post 11435898)
You're right, you probably shouldn't!
However since you asked....the shortest answer is, despite never having met or worked with you, I didn't think I liked you. I joined a couple years after the events referenced in the book and there was certainly a line in various crew rooms that you were a bell end, or a failure, or a big head, or various combinations of similar. Also annoyance at seeing you trotted out on the news etc, etc. These lines were, in clear hindsight, peddled by people who had never even come close to putting themselves into the danger that you and others did in '91. I'm ashamed to admit I accepted those PoVs without any critical thought or analysis and should have realised that if someone raises their head above the parapet then others will take pot shots. So I spent the last 30 years largely discounting anything you said or wrote. I like to think I don't behave like that today. Now I was gifted the book and thought, I don't want to read this pish (also I spent more time on harriers than tornado), but I took it on holiday with me last summer and I couldn't put it down. I'll admit that parts brought a tear to my eye. I thought it was really well written and thoroughly enjoyed it. I only really understood a fraction of what you and the guys went through till I read it, my career was mostly based around Iraq and Afghan with a bit of ex-Yug thrown in. Now, you may well be a bell end, I have no idea, but I suspect not! And you can certainly write a good book. And I will no longer trot out tired tropes about you until I've met you to confirm one way or the other! Hope that makes sense and doesn't offend too much! Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I've had such comments (almost all from people I have never met) for 32 years - still do in fact. But it's water off a tubby old Nav's back to be honest. In some ways, I guess I understand some of the resentment - I did indeed 'just get shot down' and my friends & colleagues at that time certainly gave more, and performed more successfully than I did. Indeed some gave all. After leaving five years later, my career in the media and especially in writing has certainly 'taken off'. But I like to think that (especially after a million or so books sales and a BAFTA nominated documentary) it's not all 'just 'cos he got shot down'. Anyhoo, I appreciate your comments and hope you enjoy the book. If we do ever meet, you can decide if you agree with Mrs N about any bell-endness... I may see some of you at the 617 Sqn service this evening? |
John, does Bill Weavers M3+ escape count as an ejection, never used the seat, but the aircraft certainly "ejected" him.
Love your writing, purchased your first as soon as it hit the shelves, looks like I'm up for another. :D |
SR-71 Pilot [Bill Weaver] explains how he Survived to his Blackbird Disintegration at a Speed of Mach 3.2
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-7...d-of-mach-3-2/ |
Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
(Post 11436303)
SR-71 Pilot [Bill Weaver] explains how he Survived to his Blackbird Disintegration at a Speed of Mach 3.2
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-7...d-of-mach-3-2/ If any of you know Tornado F3 Nav Ian Weaver, his horrific high-speed, out of parameters, near-fatal ejection is just astounding. His story of survival even more so. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2877e0ddf6.jpg |
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
(Post 11436485)
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Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 11436536)
Sadly, as with many topics in this internet age, the links no longer work. It is easy to find details of the accident elsewhere, but not his actual personal story.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....653843f92c.jpg |
Originally Posted by John Nichol
(Post 11436550)
I mean, I don't want to be too pushy.... But his story, including Elvis & Skids who he collided with, and Cliff who watched it unfold, and the boy who saw it from the ground, and the famer who found him unconscious face-down in a cow-pat, and (perhaps most movingly) Ian's then 10-yr-old- daughter's memories..... are all pretty well told (even if I say so myself) in a new book.....
You talked me into it - just ordered! |
Five days to go...never in the field of human conflict has so much been anticipated
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Ok. I’m convinced. It’s going on order. (39 years in RAF Survival Systems Engineering followed by 11 years with MBA SSE & seat development, makes it a must read for me of course)
Downsizer. I was privileged to be present at his pilot John Peters’ presentation about their GW1 experience a couple of years ago. Suffice it to say it totally changed my outlook on the two of them, It was the most powerful thing I have ever witnessed. It had Mrs OMS in tears. Until I saw that presentation, I also had some reservations about JNs meteoric rise in the meejah, and had also heard some of the crew room ‘banter’, but now what with JPs presentation and seeing JNs thoughtful and honest responses to you, those reservations have just about dissipated. JN Clearly has a good agent, and I’m still a bit nervous about his alleged ‘bell end exposure’…...But I’m looking forward to a bloody good read. inshe Allah! Good luck with it, John. |
Originally Posted by downsizer
(Post 11435898)
You're right, you probably shouldn't!
However since you asked....the shortest answer is, despite never having met or worked with you, I didn't think I liked you. I joined a couple years after the events referenced in the book and there was certainly a line in various crew rooms that you were a bell end, or a failure, or a big head, or various combinations of similar. Also annoyance at seeing you trotted out on the news etc, etc. These lines were, in clear hindsight, peddled by people who had never even come close to putting themselves into the danger that you and others did in '91. I'm ashamed to admit I accepted those PoVs without any critical thought or analysis and should have realised that if someone raises their head above the parapet then others will take pot shots. So I spent the last 30 years largely discounting anything you said or wrote. I like to think I don't behave like that today. Now I was gifted the book and thought, I don't want to read this pish (also I spent more time on harriers than tornado), but I took it on holiday with me last summer and I couldn't put it down. I'll admit that parts brought a tear to my eye. I thought it was really well written and thoroughly enjoyed it. I only really understood a fraction of what you and the guys went through till I read it, my career was mostly based around Iraq and Afghan with a bit of ex-Yug thrown in. Now, you may well be a bell end, I have no idea, but I suspect not! And you can certainly write a good book. And I will no longer trot out tired tropes about you until I've met you to confirm one way or the other! Hope that makes sense and doesn't offend too much! There's too many books on the history of the mighty Spit so you'd be forgiven for assuming this is just another one but it isn't, John focuses on the people who flew and maintained them and so it's a much more personal story. One of my 'keeper' books. |
I remember “Weaves” as a young Observer at Culdrose. When he transferred to you sideways walking folks he was renamed “Wibble” ?
It’s one hell of a tale. As was his recovery. God speed with the sale of the book John. Looking forward to it. |
Book ordered.
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Hi JN! How well I remember Night 1 of GW1! It came as a total shock to find I was down to lead 3 x VC10K to trail 8 x JP233 Tornadoes to their cast off point, then loiter until they returned post-attack. The weather was difficult and keeping within the narrow speed range for the heavy Tornadoes was quite a struggle. We'd planned to balance up the fuel across our tanker formation whilst waiting for the Tornadoes to return, but the tanker with all the spare fuel had an unserviceable centreline hose. Hence after the 8 x Tornadoes returned, thankfully unscathed, by the time we reached KKIA we were rather low on fuel. To make matters worse, both hoses were stuck at full trail, so a flapless landing was needed...
Fortunately all the Tornado crews with whom we'd worked were fine. But when we saw your pictures in the Daily Mail a couple of days later, we realised what a truly nasty regime we were up against. Your book looks brilliant, mate! |
The Cough family were asking what I’d like as a Father’s Day present. Apparently an Aston Martin is a bit expensive as it turns out so that may have to wait.
Having read a lot of JN’s other work, I’ve asked for this book and fully expect it will be an excellent alternative - although not as easy to go the shops in. |
Originally Posted by Tay Cough
(Post 11436967)
The Cough family were asking what I’d like as a Father’s Day present. Apparently an Aston Martin is a bit expensive as it turns out so that may have to wait.
Having read a lot of JN’s other work, I’ve asked for this book and fully expect it will be an excellent alternative - although not as easy to go the shops in. |
Originally Posted by John Nichol
(Post 11435706)
I probably shouldn't ask.... But why didn't you 'want' to enjoy TORNADO?
I used to work on supporting the RB199 engines in Tornado and wondered if you would like to share your views on these engines. |
Originally Posted by Tay Cough
(Post 11436967)
The Cough family were asking what I’d like as a Father’s Day present. Apparently an Aston Martin is a bit expensive as it turns out so that may have to wait.
Having read a lot of JN’s other work, I’ve asked for this book and fully expect it will be an excellent alternative - although not as easy to go the shops in. Though I would CERTAINLY prefer the Aston Martin...... |
Originally Posted by BEagle
(Post 11436965)
Hi JN! How well I remember Night 1 of GW1! It came as a total shock to find I was down to lead 3 x VC10K to trail 8 x JP233 Tornadoes to their cast off point, then loiter until they returned post-attack. The weather was difficult and keeping within the narrow speed range for the heavy Tornadoes was quite a struggle. We'd planned to balance up the fuel across our tanker formation whilst waiting for the Tornadoes to return, but the tanker with all the spare fuel had an unserviceable centreline hose. Hence after the 8 x Tornadoes returned, thankfully unscathed, by the time we reached KKIA we were rather low on fuel. To make matters worse, both hoses were stuck at full trail, so a flapless landing was needed...
Fortunately all the Tornado crews with whom we'd worked were fine. But when we saw your pictures in the Daily Mail a couple of days later, we realised what a truly nasty regime we were up against. Your book looks brilliant, mate! The rest, as they say... is history |
Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 11436536)
Sadly, as with many topics in this internet age, the links no longer work. It is easy to find details of the accident elsewhere, but not his actual personal story.
A very sobering read. |
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