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-   -   Moving the black dog’s grave? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652694-moving-black-dog-s-grave.html)

snapper41 11th May 2023 17:25

Moving the black dog’s grave?
 
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/2351541...ed-raf-marham/

ShyTorque 11th May 2023 19:04

When I was based at Scampton over thirty years ago the rumour was that the grave didn’t actually contain Gibson’s dog’s remains because they were under one of the buildings built sometime after the initial burial, the station gymnasium iirc.

ahwalk01 11th May 2023 20:49

Why would you remove remains due to potentially housing migrants. It doesn't follow.

Wensleydale 11th May 2023 21:26


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 11433385)
When I was based at Scampton over thirty years ago the rumour was that the grave didn’t actually contain Gibson’s dog’s remains because they were under one of the buildings built sometime after the initial burial, the station gymnasium iirc.

Rumour control at Waddington (tales from old Vulcan crew): in the unpleasantness between IX at Waddington and 617 at Scampton over the possession of the Tirpitz bulkhead (who did sink it spat), a raid was sent from Waddington one night to dig up the dog and hold its remains hostage until the bulkhead was delivered back. By all accounts, the "grave" was empty. The story goes that the railings went around the grave to discourage further digging attempts.

As an aside, one would imagine the fallout at Scampton had the dog's old headstone been in place when the asylum seekers arrived.......

meleagertoo 11th May 2023 21:30


Originally Posted by ahwalk01 (Post 11433431)
Why would you remove remains due to potentially housing migrants. It doesn't follow.

I'd have thought the answer pretty obvious in this crazy day and age.
Fear of accusations of racism/religious offence to the new inmates...

ShyTorque 11th May 2023 22:41

Maybe the name “Digger” is more appropriate than first thought…

Barksdale Boy 12th May 2023 00:56

Each new crew on 617 had to tend the grave in front of the squadron offices (did it myself in 1978), typically for about six weeks. Every one knew, however, that he had been buried somewhere near the airmen's mess.

Blue_Circle 12th May 2023 08:36


Originally Posted by Wensleydale (Post 11433445)
As an aside, one would imagine the fallout at Scampton had the dog's old headstone been in place when the asylum seekers arrived.......


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 11433446)
I'd have thought the answer pretty obvious in this crazy day and age.
Fear of accusations of racism/religious offence to the new inmates...

Really? Or fear of someone closer to home being offended on their behalf?

Davef68 12th May 2023 08:39


Originally Posted by ahwalk01 (Post 11433431)
Why would you remove remains due to potentially housing migrants. It doesn't follow.

I think it's more to do with loss of control over what happens to the memorial - being on an 'open' site would leave it open to vandalism

Herod 12th May 2023 08:45

I have a bit of an issue about this. It wasn't a racist remark in context, but rather the name of a much-loved dog. In this day and age, I wouldn't dream of using the word in a derogatory way, but YOU CAN'T GO CHANGING HISTORY. We now have the ridiculous situation where, in the last iteration I saw, the dog is referred to as "Trigger", but the code for the breach is, "Tigger". Offensive to the fans of Winnie the Pooh?

stumblefingers 12th May 2023 08:58


Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy (Post 11433490)
Each new crew on 617 had to tend the grave in front of the squadron offices (did it myself in 1978), typically for about six weeks. Every one knew, however, that he had been buried somewhere near the airmen's mess.

On my first tour in 1969 on 617 Sqn at Scampton, the most junior officer was appointed OIC the grave, keeping it tidy until somebody more junior arrived. It was not an arduous task, and came with the bonus of a very smart tankard kept in the Officers' Mess bar, engraved with the sqn crest and the words "For the use of the most junior officer". I can confirm that the new station gymnasium was built over the site of the original grave sometime after the war.

212man 12th May 2023 09:06


Originally Posted by Blue_Circle (Post 11433617)
Really? Or fear of someone closer to home being offended on their behalf?

Another example of offense gone nuts….(don’t watch if easily offended by language!)

NutLoose 12th May 2023 09:09

I heard the rumours that it was empty too, maybe a case in this instance of barking up the wrong hole. still they could always have a back up dogs remains to chuck in the hole...

ShyTorque 12th May 2023 10:50

Maybe the most appropriate place for the headstone is now the RAF Museum. Obviously, with the dog's name chiselled off and replaced by a subtitle...not.

NutLoose 12th May 2023 11:06

Locals are not happy.

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/05/...y-gibsons-dog/


Plans to move the grave of Wing Commander Guy Gibson’s dog from RAF Scampton to RAF Marham have been called a “kick in the teeth” for the community.

The RAF applied to West Lindsey District Council to move the grave from the hanger to the current base for the 617 Squadron in Norfolk.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 12th May 2023 11:25


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11433714)


Imagine how unhappy they'll be when they discover that there is nothing there to move.

Best place for the none-dog to go would be Woodhall Spa (Dambuster's Memorial) . Not much chance of turning that location into an Asylum Centre. Marham on the other hand will be on a Home Office list of potential sites - not near the top yet, but it'll on a list.

rog747 12th May 2023 11:27

The lovely Petwood Hotel nearby also could be considered - Twas the official Squadrons Officers 'mess'' IIRC >?

Ken Scott 12th May 2023 11:55

The ‘need’ to move the grave was an issue when Scampton was up for disposal in the 1990s shortly after I went through CFS there. The story I heard at the time was that the dog was pretty unpopular with the ‘erks’ as he tended to crap everywhere, when Gibson tasked one of his NCOs with burying the dog at midnight, as they were attacking the first dam, he in turn detailed a couple of airmen for the task.

They simply chucked the body over a hedge outside the camp then disturbed the earth in the flowerbed and reported ‘job done’.

So the gravesite is just symbolic. To move it though does seem unnecessary, if the migrants really took offence (should they even understand the significance) then it could serve as a first adjustment to life in a new land, one with its own history that shouldn’t be wiped away in a frenzy to accommodate people that have illegally entered the country.

pr00ne 12th May 2023 12:09


Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY (Post 11433731)
Imagine how unhappy they'll be when they discover that there is nothing there to move.

Best place for the none-dog to go would be Woodhall Spa (Dambuster's Memorial) . Not much chance of turning that location into an Asylum Centre. Marham on the other hand will be on a Home Office list of potential sites - not near the top yet, but it'll on a list.

Nonsense! As the only UK F-35 base with investment just announced for the construction of infrastructure for the 3rd F-35 Lightning squadron Marham will NOT be on any such list.

Expatrick 12th May 2023 12:35


Originally Posted by Ken Scott (Post 11433759)
So the gravesite is just symbolic. To move it though does seem unnecessary, if the migrants really took offence (should they even understand the significance) then it could serve as a first adjustment to life in a new land, one with its own history that shouldn’t be wiped away in a frenzy to accommodate people that have illegally entered the country.

Could be an opportunity to fast track the asylum process.
Single question: Are you offended by this piece of heritage?

If answer yes, an immediate free transfer to Rwanda.
If answer no, application may proceed normally.


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