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-   -   New British built trainer, the Swift, central to the RAF’s green agenda. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652465-new-british-built-trainer-swift-central-raf-s-green-agenda.html)

PPRuNeUser0211 29th Apr 2023 10:46


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 11427501)
Surely removeable batteries are the way forward? Turn around times can be as quick as taking out a battery and putting a new one in. The recharging can happen overnight. Or is that too simple to work?

BV

Certainly the plan for a lot of the high duty cycle e-VTOLs. However, there's a lot of cash tied up in batteries and if your duty cycle can get away with not doing it, you're*probably* better off going for fast charging given how advanced car tech has become on that front. Example - if you can afford 20min between sorties you could probably take on 55ish kWh of juice if you're matching car speeds. Given that Pipistrel's battery is only 25ish kWh capacity in the first place (noting charging speeds won't be optimised against that pack size) you can see how you might skip the swap and go for a charge instead.

unmanned_droid 29th Apr 2023 13:26

if the batteries catch fire through thermal runaway, there is only one boldface drill. Try hard to get out. Really hard. I do hope a BRS will not be used to mitigate away occupant parachutes.

Mostly batteries are not removable as they're built in to wing and nose spaces in most electric designs at this scale. There may be requirements around thermal cycling and the number of fast charges that can be carried out over the life of the battery.

If you wanted removable batteries you'd put them in pods or panniers, not within the aircraft.

Shaft109 30th Apr 2023 12:05

Battery packs
 
Having seen a small Li Ion pack on fire I'd like an electric aircraft to have jettison able batteries - so a drop tank style thing to get it away from you whilst maintaining CG.

The fires are ferocious -

charliegolf 30th Apr 2023 12:34


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 11427501)
Surely removeable batteries are the way forward? Turn around times can be as quick as taking out a battery and putting a new one in. The recharging can happen overnight. Or is that too simple to work?

BV

"We'll buy 40 if they have 'easy-change' batteries as standard.", ought to do the trick.

CG

Geriaviator 30th Apr 2023 13:26

I've been wondering about this too, since the Ethiopian 787s with battery fires damaging the fuselage and more recently fires on electric cars. As for the e-bikes and scooters which are burning down houses ...

[email protected] 30th Apr 2023 13:38


Originally Posted by charliegolf (Post 11428019)
"We'll buy 40 if they have 'easy-change' batteries as standard.", ought to do the trick.

CG

More likely we'll pay extra to have them made non-removable if normal MoD procurement processes are followed.......

oldmansquipper 30th Apr 2023 14:33


Originally Posted by megan (Post 11425986)
Middle is not too flattering either, perhaps it's pregnant.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d86dd74a2f.jpg

From the film ‘Planes’ by the ‘Pixar’ design studios ?

That’s what it looks like to me….

flyingorthopod 30th Apr 2023 15:52


Originally Posted by Geriaviator (Post 11428039)
I've been wondering about this too, since the Ethiopian 787s with battery fires damaging the fuselage and more recently fires on electric cars. As for the e-bikes and scooters which are burning down houses ...

Electric cars are significantly less of a fire risk than combustion or hybrid vehicles. About 61x less.likely to catch fire

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour..._MswQqe8pU_WGu

Are electric car fires really that common? - The Car Expert


BEagle 30th Apr 2023 18:45

But when they do catch fire.....


Lima Juliet 30th Apr 2023 20:15

Of course AVGAS burns pretty well too! As this chap found out when his light aircraft in Florida caught fire in flight.



https://www.ladbible.com/community/i...-body-20210517

deeceethree 1st May 2023 07:02


Originally Posted by charliegolf (Post 11427055)
Don't the batteries come on racks, like older avionics boxes did? If so, buy more batteries- keep em charged. Be like an actual refuel.

I'd like to know where all this electricity is going to come from? The UK doesn't have energy security now, and no realistic, believable plan to create it. There is just this lemming-like mentality that expects everyone will buy electric cars (and where is the infrastructure, never mind the energy, for them?), and other assorted green nonsense, when as it is, there is barely enough electricity generation to cover lighting, computers, phones, tablets, the millions of other battery powered items, the Cloud, Bitcoin, blah-flipping-blah.

This battery powered utopia is pie-in-the-sky, and the most likely eventual outcome is a population scavenging around in the dirt for food scaps, surrounded by toxic piles of expensive, unuseable electronic junk. And all because there isnt enough electricty generation to run, or charge, any of it, never mind manufacture anything vaguely useful. You'll have to harness your children to a plough just to attempt growing a few vegetables. 🙄

jolihokistix 1st May 2023 08:57

An airfield could be a giant solar panel farm, of course. Might discourage the birds too...

PPRuNeUser0211 1st May 2023 09:03


Originally Posted by deeceethree (Post 11428321)
I'd like to know where all this electricity is going to come from? The UK doesn't have energy security now, and no realistic, believable plan to create it. There is just this lemming-like mentality that expects everyone will buy electric cars (and where is the infrastructure, never mind the energy, for them?), and other assorted green nonsense, when as it is, there is barely enough electricity generation to cover lighting, computers, phones, tablets, the millions of other battery powered items, the Cloud, Bitcoin, blah-flipping-blah.

This battery powered utopia is pie-in-the-sky, and the most likely eventual outcome is a population scavenging around in the dirt for food scaps, surrounded by toxic piles of expensive, unuseable electronic junk. And all because there isnt enough electricty generation to run, or charge, any of it, never mind manufacture anything vaguely useful. You'll have to harness your children to a plough just to attempt growing a few vegetables. 🙄

Let me help you with that....

National Grid FAQ

[email protected] 1st May 2023 09:30


Let me help you with that.
But if you talk to people who actually work for National Greed and are responsible for patching up the creaking electricity generating and supply system you will discover it is not the sunlit uplands described in the official FAQs at all.

A cold, cloudless winter night followed by a windless day (standard high pressure scenario) means no wind power and very little solar - the UK hasn't invested in tidal power so where in fact is the electricity going to come from?

When you factor in how few charging points there are and how many houses have only on-street parking, there is nothing like the required infrastructure in UK to support full EV ownership at all.

ZH875 1st May 2023 10:04

As the report states "Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002"

We believe........ in other words, they don't actually know, it's a guess

[email protected] 1st May 2023 11:05

The demand would stay low simply because there aren't enough charging points.

Ninthace 1st May 2023 11:14

Isn't there a thread on JB where you can park the EV debate and we can get back to talking about aeroplanes?

Asturias56 1st May 2023 11:14

No one has ever laid out how your can charge all the vehicles owned by people in a multi storey block of flats for example

PPRuNeUser0211 1st May 2023 12:08


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11428447)
Isn't there a thread on JB where you can park the EV debate and we can get back to talking about aeroplanes?

This. Every argument you're going to have here has been had on jet blast a thousand times.

NutLoose 1st May 2023 12:28


Originally Posted by Shaft109 (Post 11428002)
Having seen a small Li Ion pack on fire I'd like an electric aircraft to have jettison able batteries - so a drop tank style thing to get it away from you whilst maintaining CG.

The fires are ferocious -

I’d hate to think what jettisoning a battery pack would do to the C of G and along with the chute operation, I also wouldn’t fancy a burning Li Ion battery dropping out of the sky.


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