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-   -   Americas early guided missiles... utilising three Pigeons, yup you heard it correct. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/650164-americas-early-guided-missiles-utilising-three-pigeons-yup-you-heard-correct.html)

NutLoose 5th Dec 2022 11:50

Americas early guided missiles... utilising three Pigeons, yup you heard it correct.
 

In 1943, the U.S. military had a problem. It didn’t suffer from a lack of bombs and missiles, but there was no reliable way to accurately guide them for a precision strike. A psychologist, though, had a solution: use pigeons to get the job done. Thus, Project Pigeon was born.

B.F. Skinner was a professor at the University of Minnesota at the time and specialized in understanding the psychology of human behavior. Homing pigeons had, of course, long been used in military service, as they could be trained to fly from one place to another. In 1940, Skinner began experimenting with the birds, devising an experiment in which they could be used to guide another object.
The experiment was relatively simple. The pigeons were placed in a harness, and as they pecked away at a small grain dish, their head movements would steer a small cart towards a bullseye. The experiments progressed to having the pigeons guide their harnesses toward other targets, like small ship models. Soon enough, Skinner had his pigeons training to steer towards pictures moving across a screen.

At first, Skinner couldn’t get the military interested, but in June 1943, the Office of Scientific Research and Development gave General Mills Inc., which was funding Skinner at that point, a small contract to try and develop his proposed pigeon guidance system. Skinner later described the project as “a crackpot idea, born on the wrong side of the tracks intellectually speaking, but eventually vindicated in a sort of middle-class respectability.”

The pigeons — Skinner had determined that they worked best as a trio — would be placed in the nose cone of a missile, which was dubbed the “Pelican.” Each pigeon would be looking at a small electronic screen that would display the ground ahead of the missile. As the pigeons would peck away at the target, small pulleys attached to their heads would steer the missile. Unfortunately for the pigeons, they would be along for the ride up until the moment of impact.
Skinner wasn’t allowed to see exactly what kinds of missiles the pigeons would theoretically guide — that was classified — so he had to make an educated guess. But the experiments still proved remarkably successful. The pigeons were quite adept at identifying and homing in on targets and were not affected by noise, temperature swings, or altitude changes in the Pelican. Still, after a 1944 demonstration, the project was shut down. The pigeon-guided missile was apparently too far-fetched of an idea even for the Army.

“Further prosecution of this project would seriously delay others which in the minds of the Division would have more immediate promise of combat application,” read the rejection letter.

Remarkably, this wasn’t the end for Project Pigeon. In 1948, the Navy revived the idea of using pigeons to guide anti-ship missiles, renaming it Project Orcon, or “organic control.” Fortunately for the pigeons, though, it was terminated in 1953, as technological advances in guidance systems mitigated the need for an organically controlled missile.
Skinner would continue on to a distinguished career as a psychologist and academic, his pigeon-guided missile never having gotten off the ground. He kept the pigeons, though, and reported that even six years later, they could still identify their targets.
https://taskandpurpose.com/history/p...-missiles-ww2/

Ninthace 5th Dec 2022 12:26

B F Skinner's thinking was, and for all I know still is, a leading inspiration for the design of the UK military training system too, especially if you experienced performance based training objectives.
https://www.liquisearch.com/b_f_skin...e_on_education

gums 5th Dec 2022 14:16

Salute!

heh heh, and pigeons were not the only critters considered to help the war effort. To wit, the "bat bombs".

Bats would be fitted with small incindiery payloads and release over the Japanese cities. The bats would land and roost in the eaves of buildings and then the payload would ignite and start a fire. Well, the system worked, but unfortunately at the test site in the U.S. !!! Early testing had an unplanned release of the bats and the suckers burned down one of the test sites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb

Gotta love it. And the pigeons were smart enuf to be trained to home in on certain types of boats, unlike the bats that simply picked a building that looked comfortable.

Gums sends...


langleybaston 5th Dec 2022 14:24


Originally Posted by gums (Post 11342731)
Salute!

heh heh, and pigeons were not the only critters considered to help the war effort. To wit, the "bat bombs".

Bats would be fitted with small incindiery payloads and release over the Japanese cities. The bats would land and roost in the eaves of buildings and then the payload would ignite and start a fire. Well, the system worked, but unfortunately at the test site in the U.S. !!! Early testing had an unplanned release of the bats and the suckers burned down one of the test sites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb

Gotta love it. And the pigeons were smart enuf to be trained to home in on certain types of boats, unlike the bats that simply picked a building that looked comfortable.

Gums sends...

And there was I thinking today was 5th December, not 1st April.
Every day a school day ..............................

Herod 5th Dec 2022 14:42

I guess they were cheep to operate. Fuel costs must have been chickenfeed

Uplinker 5th Dec 2022 15:25

I am fairly sure that pigeons were tried out for search and rescue at one time? They apparently could be trained to spot life-boats or whatever in the sea, and were placed in a glass bowl under SAR aircraft and could indicate if they spotted something?

NutLoose 5th Dec 2022 15:38

During WW2 the Russians used starving dogs carrying a pack, they trained them to seek out food attached to the bottom of tanks, when this was completed they had a satchel type charge strapped on their backs with a detonator that would set off the charge as the dogs rushed under the tanks, though they realised the dogs could not really differentiate as to who's tanks to run under.

https://www.rbth.com/history/329005-...d-suicide-dogs

ea200 5th Dec 2022 15:41


Originally Posted by Uplinker (Post 11342762)
I am fairly sure that pigeons were tried out for search and rescue at one time? They apparently could be trained to spot life-boats or whatever in the sea, and were placed in a glass bowl under SAR aircraft and could indicate if they spotted something?

You are correct. 'Project Sea Hunt'. That used helicopters but I am fairly sure I saw film of trials using a fixed wing a/c with blisters. Possibly a PBY?

ShyTorque 5th Dec 2022 16:18

THREE pigeons?

Committees never work when you want a quick answer.

No wonder it didn’t suckseed.

petit plateau 5th Dec 2022 16:19


Originally Posted by Uplinker (Post 11342762)
I am fairly sure that pigeons were tried out for search and rescue at one time? They apparently could be trained to spot life-boats or whatever in the sea, and were placed in a glass bowl under SAR aircraft and could indicate if they spotted something?

There was a time the North Sea offshore industry switched from orange survival suits to bright pink ones. The rationale for switching away from the orange ones was consideration of the post-Piper Alpha search-and-rescue results where there was so much orange debris in the water that it was difficult for the SAR aircraft and vessels to determine what was trash and what was humans. The reason to move to the bright pink ones came from these US studies where they placed some trained pigeons in the cockpit of some long-range aircraft (I think it was P-3 Orion) and watched for which colour of target the pigeons were able to detect at greatest ranges. (Trained pigeons, random courses, various weathers and lighting conditions, equal sized raft targets at sea). Dayglo pink it was. A little bit of further study confirmed that pigeon vision was sufficiently similar to human vision, and the end result was we all got stuffed into bright pink survival suits.

old,not bold 5th Dec 2022 16:35

And that's not all; my Dad, a Lancaster III pilot until shot down and captured near Munich, told us shortly before he died in 1975 about some very secret trials he was deeply involved with.

The powers-that-be were getting very concerned at the loss rate of bombers who, although they survived the raid itself, then got lost over the blacked-out UK, and crashed due to fuel starvation before they could find a runway.

The idea was to have squadrons of pigeons based on the airfield as their home, so that they would want to return to it. Then, once that was established they would be taken on sorties over Germany. They would be kept in a box for the outward flight, and remain there on return until over the sea and approaching the English coast.

They would then be launched through the DV window attached to a 60ft piece of light string, and, in theory all the pilot had to do was to follow the direction indicated by the pigeon. Unsurprisingly, this trial failed as the clean stall speed for the Lanc was pretty much the max speed the little birds could manage, and they tired within minutes.

A boffin then came up with the solution; let the bird walk about on the coaming above the pilot's panel, in the hope that it would normally point unerringly toward the destination. This was a success, and the loss rate quickly began to decrease. The whole project was shrouded in secrecy, and eventually dropped as better homing devices were introduced. The records won't be released until 2045.

albatross 5th Dec 2022 16:44


An oldie but a goodie.

ShyTorque 5th Dec 2022 16:48

Didn’t they also carry a cat in case the artificial horizon failed….everyone knows that cats always land on their feet so they must know which way up they are….

:E

pasta 5th Dec 2022 17:03


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 11342805)
Didn’t they also carry a cat in case the artificial horizon failed….everyone knows that cats always land on their feet so they must know which way up they are….

No. They quickly realised that a piece of toast with marmalade - which automatically orients marmalade-side-down - would be much simpler, and not need feeding during the flight.

FakePilot 5th Dec 2022 17:06

I thought I heard cats were tested for guiding missiles. Don't you play missile cat? You pick up your cat, point it at the mouse and wait for the cat to lock on. Then release the cat.

mikeoneflying 5th Dec 2022 17:29

Speckled Jim
 
Skinner's ideas were based upon stimulus and response -- the pigeons got more food the better they zeroed in on the target.

Problem was the pigeons could not identify between friendly and enemy ship -- aircraft could release missile and pigeon target the friendly ship!

I believe the US navy tried this idea with dolphins carrying explosives -- same problem enemy identification.

Russian's probably had better results based upon stimulus response -- dogs starved but feed near tanks -- therefore tanks = food. So dogs run to tanks which are the source of food.

Just need to keep you tanks out of the way when using the dogs armed with satchel charges.

Today Russia is mean't to be using Whales for intelligence gathering with go-pros attached to head.

I believe GB experimented with chickens and nuclear landmines -- chickens keep the mechanism war and you get cooked chicken.

I always liked the CIA spy cat.... microphone implanted in cat and areal stitched into the tail -- unfortunately cats do not obey orders and wander around cocktail parties intelligence gathering.

I believe the cat escaped and was run over -- multi-millions $ project was then abandoned or was it?

Now the name of the game is to try and make drones look like animals or birds -- drone bird can sit near target and listen/provide real time visual or even carry explosive.....sort of high tech pigeon post.

mikeoneflying 5th Dec 2022 17:34

The cat landing on feet -- was tried with bombs!
 
The cat idea was tried with bombs..it was thought a falling cat would always try and land not only feet first but on something firm eg a ship rather than the sea.

How a terriified cat could recognise the difference -- espicially at night was nor really well thought out!

NutLoose 5th Dec 2022 18:53

During the Second World War, Allied forces attempted to sabotage German factories by stuffing dead rats with explosive charges. The idea was that a German worker would see the dead rat, and scoop it into the boiler fire for disposal.
This small explosive charge could then lead to a much larger boiler explosion, decimating the entire factory.
The Nazis grew wise to the plan when they intercepted the first shipment. Although the plan was never fully executed, due to the resources wasted by Germans in checking all future dead rats it was considered a success.

MAINJAFAD 5th Dec 2022 19:22

Fun Fact, the airframe developed to test the Pigeon guidance system had TV, Semi Active Radar Homing and Active Radar Homing (fire and Forget) guidance systems fitted to it. The last mode was fitted to an operational weapon that was actually used in Combat in the Pacific in 1945.

SARH version was the SWOD Mark 7 also known as Pelican

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelican_(bomb)

While the Active Homer was the SWOD Mark 9 which was also known as the ASM-N-2 Bat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-N-2_Bat


Maoraigh1 5th Dec 2022 20:44

Never had any military experience, so not entitled to post here. BUT:
In 1961-62, at Aberdeen University Psychology Department, Dip Ed. Postgrad course concurrent with College of Education Diploma, over an evening coffee break one of the lecturers mentioned he'd worked on pigeon- controlled ballistic missiles. There was doubt if transistors could survive the forces, and valves couldn't.
There was a glass screen, with a metal grid. An aerial photo of the target was moved behind it. When the pigeon pecked at the target, it got food, and the wire pecked was to control the rocket.
When transistors were shown to survive, the project was ended, and he came to Aberdeen. I don't remember his name. Youngish guy then.


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