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-   -   First Airborne Radar (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/644717-first-airborne-radar.html)

MightyGem 17th Jan 2022 19:41

First Airborne Radar
 
A bit of a shot in the dark here, but I'm trying to find information for some elderly friends regarding their father, a William Wilkinson.

He worked for Shorts Aircraft in the 30s and 40s and served in the Army during the war. By their accounts, he was involved in the installation of the first radar set in an aircraft.

Initial internet search doesn't come up with anything concrete, so if anyone has any knowledge or links, that would be much appreciated.

Davef68 17th Jan 2022 20:47

The first AI set fitted to an aircraft was a Handley Page Heyford, initially just a receiver then a transmitter and receiver as well, but they needed long antennae. After that, the first practical set was fitted to an Anson.

Davef68 17th Jan 2022 20:48

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbor...rception_radar

dduxbury310 18th Jan 2022 01:09

The first airborne radar sets carried aloft (at least in Britain) were certainly not AI (Air Interception) sets, that did not come about till somewhat later. I believe it was in fact a form of ASV (Air to Surface Vessel) equipment which first became airborne in the late 1930s, from my hazy collections of the Robert Watson-Watt autobiography.

David D

ORAC 18th Jan 2022 06:53

You may find this relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_George_Bowen

Davef68 18th Jan 2022 07:45


Originally Posted by dduxbury310 (Post 11171428)
The first airborne radar sets carried aloft (at least in Britain) were certainly not AI (Air Interception) sets, that did not come about till somewhat later. I believe it was in fact a form of ASV (Air to Surface Vessel) equipment which first became airborne in the late 1930s, from my hazy collections of the Robert Watson-Watt autobiography.

David D

Other way about, the development of ASV was as a result of the early work carried out on AI, and discovering (by accident) it could detect ships. Development was faster and ASV came into service earlier.

rolling20 18th Jan 2022 12:57


Originally Posted by MightyGem (Post 11171335)
A bit of a shot in the dark here, but I'm trying to find information for some elderly friends regarding their father, a William Wilkinson.

He worked for Shorts Aircraft in the 30s and 40s and served in the Army during the war. By their accounts, he was involved in the installation of the first radar set in an aircraft.

Initial internet search doesn't come up with anything concrete, so if anyone has any knowledge or links, that would be much appreciated.

It would seem odd, that if he worked for an aircraft manufacturer for a number of years and was involved in the installation of radar in aircraft, that he would have joined the army?
One would have presumed that working for an aircraft manufacturer ( I am assuming he was a technical person) would have been a reserved occupation.
Even more so that he was involved with radar, that would have been even more specialised and reserved.
Just my observation and perhaps one of the idiosyncrasies of the British at war.

biscuit74 18th Jan 2022 14:14


Originally Posted by rolling20 (Post 11171649)
It would seem odd, that if he worked for an aircraft manufacturer for a number of years and was involved in the installation of radar in aircraft, that he would have joined the army?
One would have presumed that working for an aircraft manufacturer ( I am assuming he was a technical person) would have been a reserved occupation.
Even more so that he was involved with radar, that would have been even more specialised and reserved.
Just my observation and perhaps one of the idiosyncrasies of the British at war.

Radar was used extensively by the Army for anti-aircraft work, so they will have needed experts as well. My father briefly worked on late model WW2 radar predictor systems, before disappearing to serve in the Far East. He said the combination of radar and plotter predictors was so good later on that even a constant weave was no good, it really had to be random. He also recalled the fitting of mechanical cut-offs to predictor systems, to avoid the systems plotting ahead of dive bombers and shelling their targets instead!

rolling20 18th Jan 2022 15:07


Originally Posted by biscuit74 (Post 11171668)
Radar was used extensively by the Army for anti-aircraft work, so they will have needed experts as well. My father briefly worked on late model WW2 radar predictor systems, before disappearing to serve in the Far East. He said the combination of radar and plotter predictors was so good later on that even a constant weave was no good, it really had to be random. He also recalled the fitting of mechanical cut-offs to predictor systems, to avoid the systems plotting ahead of dive bombers and shelling their targets instead!

Indeed it was and not very effective at the start of the war.
I am merely assuming that has he had been at Shorts for some time, his attributes were better used where he was.
if he was at Shorts fitting radar, my guess is the ASV in Sunderlands, a number of which were equipped by the end of 1940.

ORAC 18th Jan 2022 15:44

The army were heavily involved in radar development from the start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GL_Mk._III_radar

ATC Watcher 18th Jan 2022 15:44

If you are looking at First airborne radar in the UK, then you will find plenty of references, but the Germans were far ahead at the beginning of the war and had a huge advance until 1943-44 where things reversed. . They had the first radar units of radar equipped night fighters and 360deg azimuth small antennas radars on the ground already in 1939-40. But not much documentation in English unfortunately. History is always written by the ones that win the wars. ..

rolling20 18th Jan 2022 16:49


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11171703)
The army were heavily involved in radar development from the start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GL_Mk._III_radar

Indeed they were,as I said before.

ORAC 18th Jan 2022 16:56

History well documented. This the book I have on my shelf, hopefully yo7 can pick up a cheaper copy second hand.



https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...nings-of-radar

MightyGem 18th Jan 2022 19:09


Originally Posted by Davef68 (Post 11171352)

Thanks for that. I'd already seen it but the Williams mentioned is not my man.

MightyGem 18th Jan 2022 19:11


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11171485)

Thanks, ORAC.

MightyGem 18th Jan 2022 19:13


It would seem odd, that if he worked for an aircraft manufacturer for a number of years and was involved in the installation of radar in aircraft, that he would have joined the army?
My thoughts as well. He's also reputed to have been involved in the rebuilding of the VW factory at Wolfsburg after the war.

rolling20 18th Jan 2022 21:01


Originally Posted by MightyGem (Post 11171793)
My thoughts as well. He's also reputed to have been involved in the rebuilding of the VW factory at Wolfsburg after the war.

He sounds like an interesting chap.
Don't tell ORAC you thought that though, else you'll get the cut n paste treatment.

ORAC 18th Jan 2022 21:54

I thought that was all down to Major Hirst.

Dan Winterland 18th Jan 2022 22:51

The first AI radar was fitted to the 604 Sqn Blenheims operating out of Manston. They were operational in the summer of 1940 and saw service in the Battle of Britain.

Dan Winterland 18th Jan 2022 22:59


The Germans were far ahead at the beginning of the war and had a huge advance until 1943-44 where things reversed. . They had the first radar units of radar equipped night fighters and 360deg azimuth small antennas radars on the ground already in 1939-40. But not much documentation in English unfortunately. History is always written by the ones that win the wars. ..
German radar was more technically advanced than Britain's. however, as most military historians will tell you, the outcome is rarely about who has the best kit. The Chain Home High and Low systems were basic, but as a component of an integrated air defence system, they became very useful tools, and this system was instrumental in the Luftwaffe's defeat. In comparison, the Germans never really organised their air defence to the same capability. They had reached a point where they were close with the Kammhuber line, but they were still relying on single control units controlling just one fighter. The concept of a plan position indicator never occurred to them and no-one in command ever really had an overall picture of the air battle.


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