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-   -   US sells carriers USS Kitty Hawk and John F Kennedy for 1 cent each (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/643106-us-sells-carriers-uss-kitty-hawk-john-f-kennedy-1-cent-each.html)

NutLoose 8th Oct 2021 21:43

US sells carriers USS Kitty Hawk and John F Kennedy for 1 cent each
 
Sold as scrap, one of them will need towing round the bottom of South America to reach the breakers.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...nt/5980974001/

ORAC 8th Oct 2021 22:38

Riddled with asbestos and other hazardous compounds - a reasonable price as they take the risk of the law suits both from the yards and workers where the dismantling will be done, as well as the law suits from the local communities to stop them.

etudiant 9th Oct 2021 11:22


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11123435)
Riddled with asbestos and other hazardous compounds - a reasonable price as they take the risk of the law suits both from the yards and workers where the dismantling will be done, as well as the law suits from the local communities to stop them.

Brownsville TX is a center for oil industry infrastructure production, lots of heavy industry there. I'd guess that the carrier deconstruction will be relatively routine work for that sector.

Not_a_boffin 9th Oct 2021 13:39


Originally Posted by etudiant (Post 11123630)
Brownsville TX is a center for oil industry infrastructure production, lots of heavy industry there. I'd guess that the carrier deconstruction will be relatively routine work for that sector.

GIven that they've done 5 already, plus numerous auxiliaries, yes.

These are the last of the non-nuclear big deck carriers to go - been in unmaintained reserve for well over 10 years.

Video Mixdown 9th Oct 2021 13:40


Originally Posted by etudiant (Post 11123630)
Brownsville TX is a center for oil industry infrastructure production, lots of heavy industry there. I'd guess that the carrier deconstruction will be relatively routine work for that sector.

Towing an inert aircraft carrier some 18000 miles through some of the roughest seas in the world looks like some job though.

212man 9th Oct 2021 18:43


Originally Posted by Video Mixdown (Post 11123699)
Towing an inert aircraft carrier some 18000 miles through some of the roughest seas in the world looks like some job though.

is Panama Canal not an option due size and/or being towed?

munnst 9th Oct 2021 19:00

Perhaps they are affraid that an unpowered ship of that size may block it.

OldLurker 9th Oct 2021 19:15


Originally Posted by 212man (Post 11123810)
is Panama Canal not an option due size and/or being towed?

I think they're far too wide for the Panama Canal locks. They're theoretically OK on the waterline but the enormous overhanging flight deck would collide with lock-side structures. And as munnst suggests, towing things that size through the canal would be d*mned awkward.

treadigraph 9th Oct 2021 21:55

Kittyhawk looks to be around 300' wide at its max (blimey!), the canal is about 180' at the locks...

Video Mixdown 9th Oct 2021 22:36

I know nothing of these matters, but I'm curious about whether it'd be possible or desirable to reactivate the systems needed for rudder control, and if it'd be considered safe for anyone to be aboard to steer.

L'aviateur 9th Oct 2021 23:45

It would almost certainly be unmanned with the rudder fixed amidship. It would be a fairly routine ocean tow for a large 'Anchor Handling Tug Supply' ship using extremely strong wires and a bridle. I suspect they'll use some form of weather routing to identify a good window for the passage.

Asturias56 10th Oct 2021 08:07

If they can pull large oil rigs from Greenland to the Falkland's they can pull an aircraft carrier anywhere

LTCTerry 12th Oct 2021 18:14

USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) was my home away from home 1985-1989. I made two Mediterranean cruises on her. Before Desert Storm, my claim to fame was being on watch in Combat Information Center when we shot down two Libyan MiGs in the Gulf of Sidra. F-14s are gone. The ship is gone...

Great memories.

Side story - we made a port visit to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, right after Top Gun and the US Navy forcing down the airliner carrying one of the Achille Loro (spelling?) high jackers. I couldn't buy my own drinks when out in uniform.

WE Branch Fanatic 12th Oct 2021 18:25


Originally Posted by LTCTerry (Post 11125474)
USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) was my home away from home 1985-1989. I made two Mediterranean cruises on her. Before Desert Storm, my claim to fame was being on watch in Combat Information Center when we shot down two Libyan MiGs in the Gulf of Sidra. F-14s are gone. The ship is gone...

Great memories.

Side story - we made a port visit to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, right after Top Gun and the US Navy forcing down the airliner carrying one of the Achille Loro (spelling?) high jackers. I couldn't buy my own drinks when out in uniform.

What was your role, just out of interest?

What do you think of the description by Ward Caroll (former USN Cdr and F-14 Tomcat RIO)?


LTCTerry 12th Oct 2021 21:36


Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic (Post 11125484)
What was your role, just out of interest?

What do you think of the description by Ward Caroll (former USN Cdr and F-14 Tomcat RIO)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyMfC3M0fZQ

At that time I was in Strike Operations w/in the Operations Department, helping to develop the daily Air Ops Plan. We were in four-section duty and I stood watch on the bridge (Conn or deck-under-instruction) and in Combat. So, eight on, eight off, with the office job and sleep to be worked into the eight off portion.

Funny you should ask about Ward's video. I have seen it. He and I have corresponded briefly and know some of the same people. I suspect Ward knows what he's talking about with his F-14 RIO background. His description of how movement affects the radar display seems to link US actions and Libyan actions pretty tightly.

When I was a little kid in the early 70s my dad was part of the special weapons school staff at Sandia Army Base/Kirtland Air Force Base. One of his USAF Lt Col counterparts had been a US Military Assistance Mission person to Libya as a captain. One of his trainees was a Captain MuammarGaddafi. It's an incredibly small world.

My retired Navy fighter pilot dad had the chance to ride with me on the ship for a few days on a "Tiger Cruise." Airshows were prohibited, but the "airpower at sea demonstration" was pretty impressive; my dad commented on the F-14's turning radius - "you could double that for the F-4."

WE Branch Fanatic 12th Oct 2021 22:15


Originally Posted by LTCTerry (Post 11125577)
At that time I was in Strike Operations w/in the Operations Department, helping to develop the daily Air Ops Plan. We were in four-section duty and I stood watch on the bridge (Conn or deck-under-instruction) and in Combat. So, eight on, eight off, with the office job and sleep to be worked into the eight off portion.

Funny you should ask about Ward's video. I have seen it. He and I have corresponded briefly and know some of the same people. I suspect Ward knows what he's talking about with his F-14 RIO background. His description of how movement affects the radar display seems to link US actions and Libyan actions pretty tightly.

When I was a little kid in the early 70s my dad was part of the special weapons school staff at Sandia Army Base/Kirtland Air Force Base. One of his USAF Lt Col counterparts had been a US Military Assistance Mission person to Libya as a captain. One of his trainees was a Captain MuammarGaddafi. It's an incredibly small world.

My retired Navy fighter pilot dad had the chance to ride with me on the ship for a few days on a "Tiger Cruise." Airshows were prohibited, but the "airpower at sea demonstration" was pretty impressive; my dad commented on the F-14's turning radius - "you could double that for the F-4."

Were you Surface Warfare or an Aviator/NFO? Sorry if my question seems odd, but as a keen proponent of the Royal Navy's carriers I am particularly interested in the whole ship aspects of carrier operations, and how the different warships and aircraft work together, such as the carrier, F-14s, E-2, and the Aegis Cruiser.

Asturias56 13th Oct 2021 09:23

"but as a keen proponent of the Royal Navy's carriers"

THAT is a classic British understatement ................... WEBF has carried on a one man or woman campaign for over 16 years on here - see "Future Carrier"

And amazingly has seen his/her dreams come to pass.............. :ok:

LTCTerry 13th Oct 2021 20:18


Originally Posted by Video Mixdown (Post 11123927)
I know nothing of these matters, but I'm curious about whether it'd be possible or desirable to reactivate the systems needed for rudder control, and if it'd be considered safe for anyone to be aboard to steer.

I can answer that question. Steering is controlled from the bridge via an antique looking ship's wheel that sends an electronic signal to a pair of massive hydraulic rams for each of the two rudders. The Bridge is the 09 level - nine floors above the hanger bay. After Steering is three decks below the hangar bay in the very aft most end of the ship.

I was on the bridge as Junior Officer of the Deck (Conning Officer) once during underway replenishment operations when steering failed. Rather than an emergency breakaway we remained along side, and I ran from the bridge to after steering, sliding down the ladders like a movie and yelling at people to get out of my way. We switched control of steering from the Bridge to a small trick wheel in after steering. The helmsman then simply used the gyro compass to steer. Was rather exciting.

In after steering, there's a large chain mechanism that can be used to manually position the rudders. This would not work for steering purposes as it is far, far too slow. The hydraulic system was electrically powered.

We used double hearing protection in after steering - foam ear plugs and "mouse ears."

Mixdown - maybe more than your asked for :)

LTCTerry 13th Oct 2021 20:20


Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic (Post 11125588)
Were you Surface Warfare or an Aviator/NFO? Sorry if my question seems odd, but as a keen proponent of the Royal Navy's carriers I am particularly interested in the whole ship aspects of carrier operations, and how the different warships and aircraft work together, such as the carrier, F-14s, E-2, and the Aegis Cruiser.

I was a SWO with an interest in aviation. I knew enough about timing, logistics, flying, navigation, and math to pick up building a daily air plan pretty quickly. My boss was an A-6 pilot and his deputy an A-6 bombardier/navigator.

WE Branch Fanatic 13th Oct 2021 20:57


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11125741)
"but as a keen proponent of the Royal Navy's carriers"

THAT is a classic British understatement ................... WEBF has carried on a one man or woman campaign for over 16 years on here - see "Future Carrier"

And amazingly has seen his/her dreams come to pass.............. :ok:

Given that at times the politicians have had trouble listening to the First Sea Lord and various analysts, why would they listen to me? Thanks for the confidence in my influence though! We need carriers, NATO needs us to have carriers, I am just dark blue - to the core.


Originally Posted by LTCTerry
I was a SWO with an interest in aviation. I knew enough about timing, logistics, flying, navigation, and math to pick up building a daily air plan pretty quickly. My boss was an A-6 pilot and his deputy an A-6 bombardier/navigator.

Good to hear - one might be forgiven for getting the feeling that the aviation and surface warfare experts were kept apart - not workable of course.


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